Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

LittleLambofJesus said:

Nope......that is where Dispensationalist Futurists do greatly err and thus shipwreck the faith of many..........

70ad did affect the entire OC Jewish world/age, as it now shows the Gentiles [and Jews] of today that Jesus was indeed the true Lord, Savior and King sent to Israel to redeem the world.........

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The OC Jewish world/age was not the entire world, nor did it make up the entirety of the age that Jesus was referring to. When Jesus talked about the end of the world, He meant the end of this present world as we know it today; this world in which sin, evil, suffering, and death reign: all of which go far beyond just the first century A.D. generation or the Jewish world.

BABerean2 said:

Would that be 144,000 people?

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What is the entire population of Israel today? Find that out and you will get an idea of what a third of that will be, but that figure is subject to change as Jews continue to move to the Holy Land.

Contenders Edge said:

What is the entire population of Israel today? Find that out and you will get an idea of what a third of that will be, but that figure is subject to change as Jews continue to move to the Holy Land.

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Why do you think the population of that nation has to go up, instead of down?

Do you not take the 144,000 "literally"?

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jgr said:

On this earth, which no longer exists after "the end of the world"?

How will He do that?

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The end of the world does not necessarily mean the destruction of the earth itself.

BABerean2 said:

Why do you think the population of that nation has to go up, instead of down?

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Why do you think it has to go down instead of up?

jgr said:

And He will return at the end, not 1,000 years before.

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He will return a thousand years before this earth passes away and a new one is created. Read Revelation chapters 20-22.

Contenders Edge said:

The end of the world does not necessarily mean the destruction of the earth itself.

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Re-read post 1309.

jgr said:

Re-read post 1309.

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The source you cited does not necessarily mean the end of this earth, but rather the end of this present age or the present state of this world. In that sense, Christ can return and reign a thousand years before this earth finally passes away to make way for a new heavens and a new earth which will not pass away.

Contenders Edge said:

Why do you think it has to go down instead of up?

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Look up the meaning of the word "remnant".

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Contenders Edge said:

The source you cited does not necessarily mean the end of this earth, but rather the end of this present age or the present state of this world. In that sense, Christ can return and reign a thousand years before this earth finally passes away to make way for a new heavens and a new earth which will not pass away.

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Not unless you ignore 2 Peter 3:10-13, and 2 Timothy 4:1, and Revelation 11:18.

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Contenders Edge said:

But it bears no relation to the words of Jesus who said that if men could commit the cruel and evil acts that had been done to Him before He had been crucified "during a green leaf, what shall be done in the dry?" (Lk. 23:31) According to those words, the world is destined to see even greater evils and horrors than what was done even against our Lord. If acts of evil and cruelty could be committed even under the best of circumstances, how much more so under the worst of circumstances?

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It is plain to most that what Jesus said in Luke 23:31, was a reiteration of the Ezekiel 20:47 prophecy.
It awaits a final fulfilment, when the Lord will kindle a fire in the holy Land, a literal fire as described in over 70 prophesies, that will have the literal effect described.
Only a small remnant of faithful Christian Jews will survive, hiding underground as we are told in Isaiah 29:1-4 Any other outcome of the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, is just believed in order to support a false theory of what God will do for His people in the end times.

Contenders Edge said:

The source you cited does not necessarily mean the end of this earth, but rather the end of this present age or the present state of this world. In that sense, Christ can return and reign a thousand years before this earth finally passes away to make way for a new heavens and a new earth which will not pass away.

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What does "the demolition of this world" mean?

BABerean2 said:

Look up the meaning of the word "remnant".

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That does not answer my question.

jgr said:

What does "the demolition of this world" mean?

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That depends on whether the end of the world means which could mean: The world as we know it to be or the destruction of earth itself. The end of the world as we know it does not necessarily mean that the earth itself will be destroyed though scripture makes it clear that the earth itself will pass away as well and a new one will be created in its place.

Contenders Edge said:

He will return a thousand years before this earth passes away and a new one is created. Read Revelation chapters 20-22.

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If Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19, why would you think the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

Why is the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18, and also in chapter 20?

What did Paul say below?

2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:


What did Christ say about the judgment of the dead in John 5:27-30?


Why did Peter say this earth is going to burn on "the day of the Lord" when He "comes as a thief", in 2 Peter 3:10-13?

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keras said:

It is plain to most that what Jesus said in Luke 23:31, was a reiteration of the Ezekiel 20:47 prophecy.
It awaits a final fulfilment, when the Lord will kindle a fire in the holy Land, a literal fire as described in over 70 prophesies, that will have the literal effect described.
Only a small remnant of faithful Christian Jews will survive, hiding underground as we are told in Isaiah 29:1-4 Any other outcome of the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, is just believed in order to support a false theory of what God will do for His people in the end times.

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A typical Preterist might more likely agree with you on that statement, but there is no contextual evidence that Ezekiel was prophesying against people when he was commanded to prophesy against the forests and fields of the south. As mentioned before, judgment does not just come in the form of direct destruction to man, but has and can come in the form of land destruction.

It must also be noted that the land of Israel is never called the "south". And once more, there is relation in subject matter between Ezekiel 20:47 who foretold of fire and Luke 23:31 in which our Lord did not specifically mention judgment by fire in that particular passage, but was merely stating that there would greater acts of evil to take place in the dry leaf than what was witnessed taking place in the green leaf.

The context of Luke 23:31 clearly states that in comparison to the season of the dry leaf, the season of the green leaf was a time of relative peace. The season of the dry leaf would be a time of evil such as would not be witnessed in the season of the green leaf.

BABerean2 said:

Not unless you ignore 2 Peter 3:10-13, and 2 Timothy 4:1, and Revelation 11:18.

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According to the following passages, the earth does not pass away before following takes place:


The judgment of the nations: Matthew 25:31-46

The one thousand year reign: Revelation 20

The binding of Satan for that one thousand years: Revelation 20:1-6

The resurrection of the saints martyred during the forth coming tribulation: Revelation 20:4

The releasing of Satan for the purpose of testing the hearts of men who have lived in the presence of our Lord on the earth which results in one final rebellion against Christ and His saints: Revelation 20:8-9

The wicked are destroyed by fire from God out of Heaven: Revelation 20:9

Satan is cast into the lake of fire: Revelation 20:10

The Great White Throne from which the earth and the heaven are said to flee in vain: Revelation 20:11

A final judgment in which even death and hell are cast into the Lake of Fire because they have no place in what is to come next: Revelation 20:13

The passages of Revelation 20:9, 11, and 13 appear to be consistent with 2 Peter 3:10-13 since Revelation chapters 21-22 are about the New Heaven and New Earth.

There is so much that you yourself are ignoring in order to make your Preterist doctrine work.

BABerean2 said:

If Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19, why would you think the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

Why is the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18, and also in chapter 20?

What did Paul say below?

2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

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The book of Revelation, while possessing an overall chronological order, is not linear. Notice that in Revelation 11:18 that wrath comes before the judgment of the dead, but before the wrath of God is made complete, Revelation chapters 12-13 explain what is to happen before the seven bowls/vials of wrath are poured out upon the earth. After the final vial is poured out, Revelation chapters 17-18 shift towards Babylon (17 being a figurative and 18 being literal) and how both are judged before and then shifts back towards the battle of Armageddon and the return of Christ.

BABerean2 said:

Why did Peter say this earth is going to burn on "the day of the Lord" when He "comes as a thief", in 2 Peter 3:10-13?

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Why is there a thousand year reign of Christ before the earth burns up and a new heaven and a new earth are created? (refer to post 1337)

Contenders Edge said:

Why is there a thousand year reign of Christ before the earth burns up and a new heaven and a new earth are created? (refer to post 1337)

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Because Revelation chapter 20 is full of symbolic language.

Do you think Satan is really a giant flying lizard?

Do you think Satan can be bound by a real chain, like one from the hardware store?

The 1,000 years of Revelation chapter 20 is symbolic of the Church Age.

How do we know this?
In 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 the Apostle Paul describes the fire coming at the Second Coming of Christ.
The fire comes at the end of Revelation chapter 20, instead of at the beginning.

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Contenders Edge said:

The judgment of the nations: Matthew 25:31-46

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Does the judgment of the nations occur at the Second Coming of Christ, and how many mortals are left alive at the end of the passage?


Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

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