Earth Almost 7,000 Years Old, Not 6,000

miamited said:

Hi minky,

The largest question to be answered in any of these endeavors to estimate the age of the creation is how we get to our starting point?

I notice that in your work you start at 4941 B.C. However, you claim that Abraham was born 2052 B.C. Could you lay out the math that shows how you get from the creation event to Abraham's birth. My calculations are shown here as to the time span between the creation event and Abraham being born to Terah.

From Genesis 5:

Creation event in total = 6 days.
Adam lived 130 years before the birth of Seth.

At this point, the creation is 130 years + 6 days. Let's just round that for simplicity to 130 years. I don't think the 6 days really makes much difference in the calculations.

When Seth was 105 years, he had Enosh.

Creation age, discounting now the 6 days. 235 years.

When Enosh was 90 years, he had Kenan

Creation age now 325 years.

When Kenan had lived 70 years, he had Mahalalel.

Creation age now 395 years.

When Mahalalel was 65 years, he had Jared.

Creation age now 460 years.

When Jared lived 162 years, he had Enoch.

Creation age now 622 years.

When Enoch was 65 years, he had Methuselah.

Creation age now 687 years.

When Methuselah was 187 years, he had Lamech.

Creation age now 874 years.

When Lamech was 182 years, he had Noah.

Creation age now 1,056 years.

Then we jump over to Genesis 7:

Noah was 600 years old when the flood came upon the earth.

Creation age now 1,656 years.

From Genesis 8:

Noah was 601 when the flood waters dried up upon the earth.

Creation age now 1,657 years.

From Genesis chapter 11:

Two years after the flood, Shem became the father of Arphaxad.

Creation age now 1,659 years.

Arphaxad lived 35 years, and had Shelah.

Creation age now 1,694 years.

Shelah was 30 years, and he had Eber.

Creation age now 1,724 years.

Eber was 34 years, he had Peleg.

Creation age now 1,758 years.

Peleg was 30 years, he had Reu,

Creation age now 1,788 years.

When Reu was 32 years, he had Serug.

Creation age now 1,820 years.

When Serug was 30 years, he had Nahor.

Creation age now 1,850 years.

When Nahor was 29 years, he had Terah.

Creation age now 1,879 years.

When Terah was 70 years, he had Abram.

Creation age now 1,949 years.

So, as you can see, and verify through your own copy of the Scriptures, God's word claims that the creation was only 1,949 years old when Abram was born to Terah. Your calculation makes the claim that there were nearly 2,900 years between the creation event and the birth of Abram to Terah. This may explain why your calculations are some 1,000 years off from the Hebrew calendar date of the year. You seem to have mixed a lot of extrabiblical evidence that can pretty much only be established by man's attempt to back date events that are thousands of years old.

For example: You offer up the 'age of the pyramids', but we don't have any sure date as to when the pyramids were constructed. We have what are referenced as 'circa' dates for these things and so there are often variances of a few hundred years when one uses 'circa' dates. Even if we do use what are reported as 'fairly' exact dates, you offer up that the pyramids were first being built in 2686 B.C. However, here's a site that claims the first pyramid to be built in 2630. The First Pyramids Built - Timeline Index

2630 BC

Most were built as tombs for the country's pharaohs and their consorts during the Old and Middle Kingdom periods. The earliest known Egyptian pyramids are found at Saqqara, northwest of Memphis. The earliest among these is the Pyramid of Djoser (constructed2630 BC–2611 BC) which was built during the third dynasty.

That allows for another 50 years of possible error in any long dating calculation.

Me, I'm inclined to believe the accounting of the Israelites as to the year from creation and the Scriptures. Both of which put us pretty close to 6,000 years and not 7,000. The Jewish calendar makes the claim that we are in the 5,779 year. Now, it is admitted that there are detractors to claim that the Jewish calendar doesn't really begin with year 1 of the creation event, but it does seem to be terribly close to the Scriptural accounting of the years since the creation, and so I'm inclined to believe that while it may not be exact, I don't believe it's 1,000 years off. For example, I'm not sure that I agree that the date would correspond through back counting of years to exactly Saturday Oct 6. 3761 BCE.

Israel's official calendar is the Hebrew one. According to Jewish counting, on September 24, 2014, we entered the Year 5775, that is - the supposed 5775th year since the world was created on Saturday night, October 6, 3761 BCE. Sep 25, 2014. The Hebrew Calendar: A marvel of ancient astronomy and math

God bless,
In Christ, ted

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Lost4words said:

The earth is billions of years old people.

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miamited said:

Hi mike,

Thanks for your reply. However, I'm not understanding what the birth order and fact of other brothers has to do with the accounting of the years.

Noah was born, I think we agree, in the creation year of 1056. Noah was 600 years old when the flood began and that takes us to, as regards creation year, of 1,656. So, when the rain began to fall and all the springs of the deep were opened up to flood the entire earth, the creation had existed for 1,656 years. Then we are told that the flood waters took one year to fully dry up. Creation now 1,657 years in existence.

Now, there may a discrepancy as regards that 1 year for the flood waters to dry up, and the continuation of the creation age. I say this because the next account we are given is that two years after the flood, Shem fathered Arphaxad. There may be some confusion as to whether that two years starts at the beginning of the flood or the end of the flood. But in either case, it only throws the calculations off by one year, and I'm fine with that. However, for our purposes, what that tells us is that after the waters dried up, two years later, Arphaxad was born to Shem. That would bring us to a creation age of 1,659 years, or 1,658 years if we account the two years after the flood to have been meant to account from the time when the flood began upon the earth. I choose to believe that it means after the flood waters dried up.

So, now we start again the counting of the creation years from father to son, beginning with Arphaxad. I honestly don't see how Shem having brothers or being the oldest or youngest of the children of Noah has any bearing when the Scriptures tell us that two years after the flood (1,657) Shem begat Arphaxad.

Then Arphaxad begat Shelah when Arphaxad was 35 years of age. In reading over your explanation of the adding of 100 years to each age after Shem, I'm confused. You say that the two texts (Masoretic/Septuagint) represent the ages differently, but you logically deduce that we should use the Septuagint because the Masoretic text would mean that the son died before the father. I'm not sure that I follow.

I think it likely of note that throughout the account of the generations leading up to the birth of Noah, the Scriptures say that 'when' each father was a certain age, that a child was born. However, when we get to the sons of Noah, the Scriptures read differently and tell us that 'after' Noah was 500 years old he became the father of the three sons. So, It's certainly possible that the first son, and oldest, Japheth would have been born in Noah's 500th year. Shem, the middle son, would have been born in Noah's 502nd year, which would leave him to be 100 years old two years after the flood. The younger son, as far as we know, was merely born sometime before the flood. He may have been 30 at the time of the flood or 60 or 80. But, in either case, Noah lived a total of 950 years.

So, Noah was 602 (although again, because of the wording of the two years after the flood that could be off one year) when Shem was 100 and that would mean that Noah lived an additional 350 years after the birth of Shem. Shem then lived a total of 500 years 'after' he became the father of Arphaxad. In the Genesis 11 account of the generations the Scriptures do not actually tell us the total number of years of each man's life as it did in Genesis 5. We now have to add the years up to the child's birth and the remaining years of each father's life. So, Shem lived a total of 600 years (100 years to Arphaxad's birth and then 500 years after that birth). Noah died long before Shem did. He only lived 350 years after the birth of Shem.

When Arphaxad was 35, he begat Shelah and then lived another 403 years. This means that Arphaxad's total years of life was 438. Yes, Shem did outlive his son, Arphaxad by 62 years.

As mentioned Arphaxad lived a total of 438 years. Shelah lived a total of 433 years and, therefore, would have died roughly 35 years after Arphaxad. I think it worth noting that both men lived to enjoy about the same number of years of life. Also that the ages have now been shortened considerably from the average ages listed in the first generations of Adam. So, Arphaxad did not outlive his son.

Shelah lived a total of 433 years. At the age of 30 begat Eber, who lived a total of 464 years. Again, well in keeping with the ages of his recent forefathers. Eber also outlived Shelah by about 61 years.

Eber, at 34, became the father of Peleg. Altogether, Eber also lived 464 years and Peleg lived a total of 239 years. That means that Peleg would have died well before his son, but we also see as we continue on that suddenly everyone is living shorter lives. So, it's possible that this was another place where God began to shorten the lives of men upon the earth and in so doing, Eber outlived Peleg.

Then Peleg, who lived a total of 239 years had Reu at the age of 30. Reu lived a total of 239 years and so he would have outlived his father.

Reu, who lived a total of 239 years. had Serug at the age of 32. The total years of Serug's life was 230 and so Serug wold have outlived his father.

Serug, who lived a total of 230 years, had Nahor at the age of 30. Nahor lived a total of 148 years and Serug would have outlived him. However, again we see a dramatic and continued reduction in the total year of life. Nahor died at 148 and Terah died at 205 and Abram died at 175. Isaac died at 180 and Jacob died at 147.

So, it is agreed that we do have two fathers who outlived their sons in this account, but we also see that when that happened, there was a fairly dramatic decrease in the average life of man. A life span that had begun as 700-900 years of life, to then 400-500 years of life. Then to 300-400 years of life to basically regularly less than 200 years of life. Yes, when these fairly major life expectancy changes came about, then the father is naturally going to outlive the child.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

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miamited said:

Hi mike,

I would respectfully disagree that we 'know' that four ancient civilizations sprang up from the Fertile Crescent 'circa' 3200. Circa always means a date that we assume to be 'somewhere around'.

I do agree that we can't be dogmatic as to the year of Abram's birth, as the Scriptures are not clear on this. That's why I've always allowed some leeway in the 6,000 year age of the earth. However, it isn't 1,000 years. Possibly as much as 130 years, but I'm inclined to believe that Abram was born earlier than later in that 130 years gap, as that would be in keeping with the other genealogies. None of the previous generations speak of any births in the last, say, 50 years of a father's life. It could be. But, I find it highly unlikely since Sarah seemed to think that she was well past child bearing age at 100, it would likely be that the generations, at least within two or three of the preceding ones, also felt that 100 was a bit old to be having children.

I do readily admit that this is using human logic more than the Scripture's teaching.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

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