Israel Palestine Peace Plan

visionary said:

Is that what Palestinians use to kill Israelis?

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Slingshots.

No peace plan would matter anyway...God is not concern with earthly Jerusalem. God's concern is with the "Jerusalem above" and "the Israel of God" which is all believers!

Galatians 4:21-31 puts any concern about earthly Jerusalem to rest:

21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.
27 For it is written, “Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear; Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor; For more numerous are the children of the desolate Than of the one who has a husband.”
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

This is why no peace plan matters when it comes to earthly Jerusalem!

ebedmelech said:

No peace plan would matter anyway...God is not concern with earthly Jerusalem. God's concern is with the "Jerusalem above" and "the Israel of God" which is all believers!

Galatians 4:21-31 puts any concern about earthly Jerusalem to rest:

21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.
27 For it is written, “Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear; Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor; For more numerous are the children of the desolate Than of the one who has a husband.”
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

This is why no peace plan matters when it comes to earthly Jerusalem!

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When you see Jerusalem surrounded.. know the time is near... Yeah Jerusalem plays a role in end times.

visionary said:

When you see Jerusalem surrounded.. know the time is near... Yeah Jerusalem plays a role in end times.

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Jerusalem was surrounded by Rome in 70 AD, and the temple was totally destroyed Just as Jesus said..."not one stone would be left upon another". DONE DEAL!!!

ebedmelech said:

Jerusalem was surrounded by Rome in 70 AD, and the temple was totally destroyed Just as Jesus said..."not one stone would be left upon another". DONE DEAL!!!

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Can't be the right one, as He hasn't returned.

ebedmelech said: ↑
Jerusalem was surrounded by Rome in 70 AD, and the temple was totally destroyed Just as Jesus said..."not one stone would be left upon another". DONE DEAL!!!

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Sounds scriptural

visionary said:

When you see Jerusalem surrounded.. know the time is near... Yeah Jerusalem plays a role in end times.

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Hi visionary.
Hopefully not another City wide holocaust like which occurred in 70ad.

Some scholars agree that at least part, if not all, of Luke 21 is 70ad [which I also agree], while there are some that believe Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are different timing events[I disagree].
So much confusion, and I really feel for the Jews if they have to go thru yet another future holocaust.....

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Dave Watchman said: ↑
That means Matthew 24 is not the same thing as Luke 21. Luke 21 was inside the Temple in the morning. Jesus was sitting down inside a place called the "women's" court. He had to "look up' to see the poor old widow put money in the treasury which was located around the outside perimeter of that court.

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This was said about 40yrs before the 70ad siege

Matthew 24:19
But woe to those that are with child, and those that give suck in those days.
Mark 13:17
But woe to those that are with child and to those that give suck in those days!
Luke 21:
20 Whenever yet may be seeing Jerusalem surrounded<2124> by war-troops<4760>,
then be knowing that nigh<1448> the desolating<2050> of Her
23 But woe to them that are with child and to them who give suck in those days,
for there shall be great distress upon the land and wrath upon this people.

Matthew 23
37 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
38 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate<2048>
Luke 13:
34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
35 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate<2048>,

Revelatoin 18:19
And they cast dust upon their heads and cried out, lamenting and mourning, saying "woe! woe! the City, the great, in which are rich all the ones having the ships in the sea out of the preciousness of Her,
that to one hour She was desolated<2049>

According to this site, 70ad was the single greatest slaughter at that time. The siege and capture took about 5 months to kill about 1 million Jews in 1 City, with the siege starting at the great feast of Passover.
[whereas the WW2 holocaust occurred over a 4 yr period and happened in various places thru out Nazi occupied Europe, making it no less horrific for them of course.]

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
The Historical Fall of Jerusalem in AD70

"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ;
the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament,
and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover......

This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months,
the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding..........

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places,
and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made.

......................

visionary said:

Is that what Palestinians use to kill Israelis?

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Slingshots.

visionary said:

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The Israeli olive branch.

keras said:

It seems that Jeremiah 31:38-40 is missing from your Bible, Ebed.
The days are coming says the Lord, when Jerusalem will be rebuilt in the Lord's honor, from the Tower of Hananel...from the Kidron valley to the corner by the Horse Gate, it will all be holy to the Lord and will never be demolished again.
This building work, including a new Temple will be done by the Lord's faithful people, as they live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 30:18, Isaiah 58:11-2, Isaiah 65:21-23

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Try reading Ezra and Nehemiah Keras. The temple was destroyed and raided by Nebuchadnezzar and Judah and Benjamin taken captive...how is it that there's a temple standing when Jesus hits the scene? Think about that.

visionary said:

No, I mean a physical return.

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Then you have a problem...because in Matthew 24:30 Jesus tells you His coming to judge Jerusalem is a "sign" coming...it is not a physical coming. The physical return of Christ is in Matthew 25 starting at verse 31.

Yep, in order, Judgement is before Return... aka just as the fall feasts predicts...

The trumpets of Revelation... Feast of Trumpets.
Judgment......Yom Kippur
He returns for His harvest... Feast of Tabernacles

visionary said:

Yep, in order, Judgement is before Return... aka just as the fall feasts predicts...

The trumpets of Revelation... Feast of Trumpets.
Judgment......Yom Kippur
He returns for His harvest... Feast of Tabernacles

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You're reaching there. Those are OT feasts that Israel had to observe...so no....nothing there! Those feast were part of the Law...and Christ fulfilled the Law...once and for all.

ebedmelech said:

Then you have a problem...because in Matthew 24:30 Jesus tells you His coming to judge Jerusalem is a "sign" coming...it is not a physical coming. The physical return of Christ is in Matthew 25 starting at verse u31.

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Hello ebe.
Don't a lot of Christians view Luke 21 as the event in 70ad?
If so, then part of Matt 24 and Mark 13 would also be fulfilled, correct?
[I have a harmonization of them at this link for those interested]
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when? shall these be being,
and what? the Sign of Thy parousia<3952>,
and full-Consummation<4931-5055> of the Age.

Mark and Luke both ask the same exact 2 questions as in Matt 24:3

Mark 13
3 And as He sat on the mount of Olives over against the Temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately,
4 Tell to us!
when? these shall be being
and what? the Sign whenever may be being about<3195> these.

Luke 21
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
when? then shall these be being
And what? the Sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming?

LittleLambofJesus said:

Hello ebe.
Don't a lot of Christians view Luke 21 as the event in 70ad?
If so, then part of Matt 24 and Mark 13 would also be fulfilled, correct?
[I have a harmonization of them at this link for those interested]
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when? shall these be being,
and what? the Sign of Thy parousia<3952>,
and full-Consummation<4931-5055> of the Age.

Mark and Luke both ask the same exact 2 questions as in Matt 24:3

Mark 13
3 And as He sat on the mount of Olives over against the Temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately,
4 Tell to us!
when? these shall be being
and what? the Sign whenever may be being about<3195> these.

Luke 21
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
when? then shall these be being
And what? the Sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming?

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You're on point in my view sister!

What some miss in Luke's version is Luke is breaking it down to a Gentile audience, who would not understand the "abomination of desolation" as the Jews would. Luke simply lays it out "plain language to them.

ebedmelech said:

You're reaching there. Those are OT feasts that Israel had to observe...so no....nothing there! Those feast were part of the Law...and Christ fulfilled the Law...once and for all.

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Just as Yeshua fulfilled the spring time feast with His first coming so also will he fulfill the fall feasts with His second coming. Yeah.. "they are they body of Christ"

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Hello ebe.
Don't a lot of Christians view Luke 21 as the event in 70ad?
If so, then part of Matt 24 and Mark 13 would also be fulfilled, correct?
[I have a harmonization of them at this link for those interested]
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Click to expand...

ebedmelech said:

You're on point in my view sister!

What some miss in Luke's version is Luke is breaking it down to a Gentile audience, who would not understand the "abomination of desolation" as the Jews would. Luke simply lays it out "plain language to them.

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Yes. That makes sense now, and thanks for that info. Luke is actually my favorite Gospel.

The first I had heard about that difference between Matthew and Luke was from this other member. It was a long post so I shorten it a bit........

The "PAROUSIA" in Matthew 24

BABerean2 said:

*snip*.....
Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.
Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)

Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.
John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.

The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience.
Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices.
The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple.
Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy.

Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.

Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the second verse of each Gospel.

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keras said:

Hezbollah chief warns US-Iran war would also hit Israel

by Reuters, Israel Hayom Staff June 2, 2019

"Entire region will burn" if U.S. goes to war against Iran, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah says. Trump's forthcoming Middle East peace plan a "historic crime" that must be stopped, he states.
It is very interesting that the enemy quotes prophecy of his own demise.

The Bible has quite a few prophesies that say the Lord will do just that; burn the entire Middle East region.
The Lord’s judgement/punishment of the nations, by fire from God’s storehouse: Deuteronomy 32:22,34-43, will be an explosion on the suns surface, Isaiah 30:26a, Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1, Hebrews 10:27, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17

Joel 2:1-11 Sound the alarm! For the Day of the Lord’s wrath is coming. As the sun rises, a vast host [mass] will appear, the like has never been known. It advances in a devouring fire, behind is a leaping flame that leaves a desolate wasteland. Nothing can escape it, nothing can stop it and as it strikes, the earth quakes and the heavens thunder. Who can survive that dark and terrible Day?

Isaiah 29:5-8 But, your enemies will become like dust, those ruthless hordes, like blown chaff. Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come from the Lord Almighty, with earthquakes, thunder, storms and a blaze of devouring fire. All the nations warring against Mt Zion, will vanish, as a dream, like one who is hungry or thirsty; then wakes to find himself empty, so it will be with all those nations attacking Israel. Malachi 4:3

Isaiah 66:16 The Lord will judge with fire and many will be slain by Him.

Psalms 37:9-10 & 20 For evildoers will be no more, their place will be empty. Evil people will die, they will be incinerated and will go up in smoke.

Malachi 4:1 & 3 The Day comes, burning like a furnace...on the Day the Lord takes action, all wicked peoples will be as ashes under your feet.

Zephaniah 1:3 & 11 I shall destroy humans and animals. Dire distress will come upon all the godless peoples, their blood and guts will spill over the ground. Hosea 4:3

Psalms 97:3-5 For My sword is ready and it descends upon those doomed for death. Fire goes ahead of the Lord and consumes His enemies on every side.


The fire judgement on the Middle East, striking ‘in an instant’, will be a Coronal Mass Ejection: a sunstrike of unprecedented magnitude, the like has never been known.....paralleled by Matthew 24:21, and is the next prophesied event we can expect. It will be the Day that ‘comes as a thief’, sudden and unexpectedly. Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 10:17, Psalms 83:13-18, Isaiah 34:5, Isaiah 30:25-28 & 30, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17 - The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.

It is quite a different event to what is described about the attack and destruction of Gog/Magog or of Armageddon, both to come later, in that order.

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Well the details of the President Trump peace plan have yet to be released. Some say economic parts on June 25 at some event in Bahrain.

Irving Baxter, I think, is speculating that it will be a Palestinian state in exchange for Israel to build its temple next to the Dome of the Rock.

Maybe. The parable of the fig tree is 1967 +70 years -7 years for the 70th week to begin not later than end of 2030. Which would give plenty of time between now and then for a temple to be built - before Gog/Magog takes place right before the 70th week begins.