The Inspiration of Scripture

Mountainmike · Apr 29, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
Just because we don't agree doesn't mean Rome has a definitive answer. That's simply bad logic.

You just agreed you do not know what the bible says, because we disagree on the meaning of it. So the entire thread proposition is a falasy based on sola scriptura

QED

I can only point out that for the first Millenium there was only the universal church, with the bishop of Rome having accepted primacy : we may since disagree with orthodox on the scope and extent of that, we did agree on the fact.

The name Roman Catholic was an name others gave it, it was the only and universal church in origin. And it is responsible for creed, New Testament , from the first early fathers it was stated that all should look to Rome, read iraneus.

Without it you would not know what was canonical.

So scripture, history and authority all agree with what I say.

Which is that to know " what the bible says" you must refer to authority and tradition.

Loversofjesus_2018 · Apr 29, 2019

PaulCyp1 said:
What the Bible says, accurately and authoritatively interpreted, God says. Trying to learn what God says from the Bible without any source of authoritative interpretation results in thousands of conflicting manmade denominations who can't agree with one another on what the Bible actually says.

Who gets to decide what authoritative interpretation is? I’m a follower of Christ but I don’t necessarily see the the people at the different councils as authoritative. The only one who is authoritative in my opinion is God. What that actually means I’m still figuring it all out. Hopefully I’m in the right place to gain different insights.

FireDragon76 · Apr 29, 2019

throughfireytrial said:
God owns it...Jesus used Scripture against Satan during His temptation in the wilderness and rebuked Satan saying, "Man does not live by bread alone but by every word which proceeds from the mouth of God."

I found it more interesting that Satan apparently has extensive familitiarity with the Scriptures, and yet that is rarely a subject of theological reflection.

FireDragon76 · Apr 29, 2019

Mountainmike said:
You just agreed you do not know what the bible says, because we disagree on the meaning of it. So the entire thread proposition is a falasy based on sola scriptura

We do not agree on all points, but that doesn't mean there's absolutely no possibibly of agreement on anything.

Without it you would not know what was canonical.

Clearly, you don't understand how Lutheranism works. We do not need an infallible canon. As Luther said, if Judas preached the Gospel, then we'ld have to read "The Gospel according to Judas".

Here's a good resource on our approach to the Bible:

https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Bible-Martin-Luther-Introductory/dp/0801049172

Athanasius377 · Apr 29, 2019

We could be in a thread about current events and the problem would still be sola scriptura.

FireDragon76 · Apr 29, 2019

Athanasius377 said:
We could be in a thread about current events and the problem would still be sola scriptura.

Martin Luther opened up a can of worms but I still prefer eating worms to being burned at the stake.

Tone · Apr 29, 2019

redleghunter said:
Who agrees/disagrees with the following? (FYI for the OP @Tree of Life)

God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."

God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more."

The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Holy Scriptures."

Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living". If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures."

I think this whole description can also be said about we ourselves, who, in a sense, are also living bibles.

2 Corinthians 3:2
"Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:"

This is why I believe that we are written into the the Book Of Life.

Revelation 3:5
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Apr 29, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
And how can we measure whether each and every word in the Bible contains that and only that which God intended it to contain? By using the Bible to measure the Bible?

Because God is Omnipotent and Sovereign.

redleghunter · Apr 29, 2019

David Cabrera said:
The process is not described on Scriptures yet has been part of Christianity for a long time?

The earliest liturgy were summaries and prayers from the Scriptures.

Tone · Apr 29, 2019

Chriliman said:
I'd like to learn more about this. Can you link to a commentary on the subject?

No, I don't think so. I think we should be able to discern what God is saying from what man is saying, even in the Bible. The story where Job is consulted by his friends is a good example of discerning man's wisdom from God's, within scripture. Now, do I think God intended/was ok with man's wisdom being in there? Yes, but that doesn't mean it was His wisdom.

Here, I got a Tone commentary:

Tone said:
John 11:51
"And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;"

Sometimes,men can speak words from on High unawares.

1 Corinthians 7:25
"Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: but I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be trustworthy."

So Paul is saying that there is no definitive teaching (from Torah) on these matters, but, as an Apostle, he speaks.

"One phrase he repeatedly uses refers to that source: "It is written." He doesn't mean written in his own letters or in the gospel accounts of Yeshua's life. He means written in the "Scriptures": the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings — what later Jewish tradition named "Tanakh." In 1 Corinthians 14:21 he cites a passage from the book of Isaiah, which he calls "the Law.""
http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/ntstudies/nt-torah-3.html

I know some on this thread know all about Apostolic authority.

redleghunter · Apr 29, 2019

bekkilyn said:
Open up a bible, any bible, and turn to the table of contents. There is usually a list of books written by all the many fallible human beings who wrote them.

Are you saying if the table of contents indicates Obadiah begins on page 799 and it actually starts on page 801 the fallible publisher just made the Bible fallible?

redleghunter · Apr 29, 2019

PaulCyp1 said:
What the Bible says, accurately and authoritatively interpreted, God says. Trying to learn what God says from the Bible without any source of authoritative interpretation results in thousands of conflicting manmade denominations who can't agree with one another on what the Bible actually says.

Is your point an infallible human Magisterium is required to determine what is from God?

GingerBeer · Apr 29, 2019

Tree of Life said:
The Bible is inspired by God. What does this mean?

Simply put - "What the Bible says, God says."

Some say that the Bible is inspired, but they are not comfortable saying that the Bible is the very words of God. They have some looser, stranger view of inspiration.

What the Bible says, God says. Can we give this a hearty "Amen"?

But the bible contains no text that claims that "what the bible says God says" and when you consider that Satan speaks in a few places and that men speak in many places and women in many places in the bible it is obvious that the idea that "what the bible says God says" is seriously flawed.

Tone · Apr 29, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Not everything was written down, like you guys imply.

No, because the world itself could not contain it, but what Is Written, is binding, whether you believe it or not.

John 21:25
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

This is all the more reason to believe that the little that was written and preserved...is most necessary.

Loversofjesus_2018 · Apr 29, 2019

John 21:25
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

This is all the more reason to believe that the little that was written and preserved...is most necessary.[/QUOTE]

Is God speaking when Paul says it’s him speaking and not the Lord?

Tone · Apr 29, 2019

PaulCyp1 said:
What the Bible says, accurately and authoritatively interpreted, God says. Trying to learn what God says from the Bible without any source of authoritative interpretation results in thousands of conflicting manmade denominations who can't agree with one another on what the Bible actually says.

No, that comes from men who attempt to usurp the authority of the Holy Spirit to prepare the bride.

Tutorman · Apr 29, 2019

Tree of Life said:
The Bible is inspired by God. What does this mean?

Simply put - "What the Bible says, God says."

Some say that the Bible is inspired, but they are not comfortable saying that the Bible is the very words of God. They have some looser, stranger view of inspiration.

What the Bible says, God says. Can we give this a hearty "Amen"?

No I can not. The reason is that St. Paul says in one place that what he is writing is from him not God. The Bible contains some of what God wanted to have us know but not just the Bible but in Tradition also. I do say the Bible is inspired but not the exact very words of God, the muslims believe their book is directly what God says. God did not take the quill and auto write, He inspired man of old to write things in their own language and cultural context for our benefit.

redleghunter · Apr 29, 2019

GingerBeer said:
But the bible contains no text that claims that "what the bible says God says" and when you consider that Satan speaks in a few places and that men speak in many places and women in many places in the bible it is obvious that the idea that "what the bible says God says" is seriously flawed.

There’s just these hundreds of references:

Word of the LORD

Word of God

Thus saith the LORD

If we want to know what God thinks and says, the Holy Scriptures are a pretty reliable place.

I think @Tree of Life made that point in the OP.

Tone · Apr 29, 2019

Loversofjesus_2018 said:
If we are using the Bible to measure the Bible

Is God speaking when Paul says it’s him speaking and not the Lord?

I answered this several times, do some searching please.

*@
Loversofjesus_2018

...try post #470.

Loversofjesus_2018 · Apr 29, 2019

Tone said:
I answered this several times, do some searching please.

Didn’t see it. I’m not searching so it’s all good. Thanks anyway.

The Inspiration of Scripture

What the Bible says, God says.

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Out of the deep I called unto thee O Lord

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