Female student files civil rights complaint over boy in girls’ locker room

Handmaid for Jesus · Apr 17, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
God is transcendent, and his ways are above ours. The only way to correctly perceive them is revealed through suffering and the Cross. In that sense, a transpersons story is potentially more revelatory than somebody that merely condemns them without actually entering into their suffering.

God is transcendant and His ways are above carnal man's. But the born again child of God suppose to know through the Word and through to Holy Ghost. Romans12:2. The person who claims that they are one gender in another gender's body is deceived. We love them, but we do not help them by indulging them in their deception.

FireDragon76 · Apr 17, 2019

Handmaid for Jesus said:
God is transcendant and His ways are above carnal man's. But the born again child of God suppose to know through the Word and through to Holy Ghost. Romans12:2. The person who claims that they are one gender in another gender's body is deceived. We love them, but we do not help them by indulging them in their deception.

In other words you do not enter into their suffering and by extension you shun the way of the Cross.

I believe you simply have too optimistic of an anthropology. The Holy Spriit makes no one infallible like that. Those who say they have no sin deceive themselves, and the truth is not in them.

Resha Caner · Apr 17, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
I don't know ...

If you don't know, it might be dangerous to take a position in favor of either the girl or the boy. It's one thing to claim adiaphora. It's another to say, "I don't know."

I accept as valid challenges to my position from those who show a willingness to consider their own. Am I putting God in too small a box (to use your words)? Possibly, and it's something I need to seriously consider. Are you enabling dangerous behavior? Possibly, and it's something you need to seriously consider.

FireDragon76 said:
BTW, @Resha Caner, isn't that sort of like the disciples asking Jesus about the blind man, "Who sinned, this man or his parents?" And Jesus reframed it, telling the disciples that this happened so that God's power could be revealed. Jesus wasn't in the business of assigning blame or offering easy explanations that fulfilled our human agendas, he was in the business of healing and reconciling.

No. That would be a misunderstanding of what I'm saying. It's not a matter of wanting to assign blame, but of wanting to discern what is best for both the boy and the girl. I'm certain sin affects our physical bodies in very visible ways, though I can't be sure of each specific instance. To claim such pain was intended by God to show God's glory without revelation from God that such was the case is a very, very dangerous game ... and bad theology in most of the cases I've seen - an abuse of Romans 8:28.

Maybe it's a digression, but I did mention earlier that I'm aware of cultural conditioning. I'm sure it happens. I expected some to try to make a stronger case of that, but it hasn't happened. What I had to meant to say on that topic is the interesting juxtaposition of those who point to differences in other cultures and insist on affirming those differences while at the same time denigrating Western culture. Very odd.

I could be wrong, but I smell that kind of subtext in academia. Pointing out variety across cultures as a way to indirectly establish that no cultural norms are valid - as if to say it's never natural for a girl to be uncomfortable at the display of male anatomy. It's just cultural conditioning. If so, I consider that hogwash.

If it's never natural, where did it come from in the first place? I would expect, instead, a distribution if views. Some are born being uncomfortable by it. Some are not. Those who are then try to impress it on those who are not as a cultural norm. If that hypothesis has merit, the more interesting question is what community benefits might result from such things?

FireDragon76 · Apr 17, 2019

Resha Caner said:
If you don't know, it might be dangerous to take a position in favor of either the girl or the boy. It's one thing to claim adiaphora. It's another to say, "I don't know."

I accept as valid challenges to my position from those who show a willingness to consider their own. Am I putting God in too small a box (to use your words)? Possibly, and it's something I need to seriously consider. Are you enabling dangerous behavior? Possibly, and it's something you need to seriously consider.

No. That would be a misunderstanding of what I'm saying. It's not a matter of wanting to assign blame, but of wanting to discern what is best for both the boy and the girl. I'm certain sin affects our physical bodies in very visible ways, though I can't be sure of each specific instance. To claim such pain was intended by God to show God's glory without revelation from God that such was the case is a very, very dangerous game ... and bad theology in most of the cases I've seen - an abuse of Romans 8:28.

Maybe it's a digression, but I did mention earlier that I'm aware of cultural conditioning. I'm sure it happens. I expected some to try to make a stronger case of that, but it hasn't happened. What I had to meant to say on that topic is the interesting juxtaposition of those who point to differences in other cultures and insist on affirming those differences while at the same time denigrating Western culture. Very odd.

I could be wrong, but I smell that kind of subtext in academia. Pointing out variety across cultures as a way to indirectly establish that no cultural norms are valid - as if to say it's never natural for a girl to be uncomfortable at the display of male anatomy. It's just cultural conditioning. If so, I consider that hogwash.

If it's never natural, where did it come from in the first place? I would expect, instead, a distribution if views. Some are born being uncomfortable by it. Some are not. Those who are then try to impress it on those who are not as a cultural norm. If that hypothesis has merit, the more interesting question is what community benefits might result from such things?

I know the answer, but I think you wouldn't like it: Church history obsessed with regulating naughty bits.

And, I know my position is "risky" from a strictly "theologically correct" position, especially if we have a somewhat wooden interpretation of things, but I'd rather go to hell out of love than to heaven due to indifference. Isn't the whole point of God's grace to go out in bold confidence to serve our neighbor? My views on transsexualism weren't calculated out in the abstract, they come from actual experiences with actual people. In was a messy, uncomfortable, cruciform process.

I do appreciate, BTW, you are trying to keep the conversation elevated.

Handmaid for Jesus · Apr 17, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
In other words you do not enter into their suffering and by extension you shun the way of the Cross.

No I do not shun the way of the cross. But you show that you do not understand what Lord Jesus did on the cross.

1 Peter 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

Christ Jesus suffered for all sinners, not so they may continue in sin. Lord Jesus said to the woman caught in adultry, go and sin no more. John 8:11.

Handmaid for Jesus · Apr 17, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
In other words you do not enter into their suffering and by extension you shun the way of the Cross.

I believe you simply have too optimistic of an anthropology. The Holy Spriit makes no one infallible like that. Those who say they have no sin deceive themselves, and the truth is not in them.

Entering into Christ's suffering does no mean or imply agreeing with sin or agreeing with satsan's deception, nor does it mean participating in or encouraging another to enter into sin or satan's deception.You misrepresent the apostle's meaning when you take His words out of context. Here is what John said.
1John 1:
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

We lie and do not the truth when we walk in darkness agreeing with sin and agreeing with satan's deception that a man is living in a female body or visa versa. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. But the formula is confessing our sin and He forgives and cleanses us of our sin and all unrighteousness.But you are saying that that the trans person has not sinned but is a victim of circumstance of birth. I say hogwash. That is a satanic lie straight from the pit. Lord Jesus is the Savior, not ourselves. Lord Jesus is infallible. The Word of God says that there is no condemnation for those who are in Him And it also says that as He is, so are we in the world.Romans 8:1,1 John 4:17. But that is contingent of us being found in Him. So one must ask oneself this question. Am I in Him if I am in agreement with sin and satan? We mmust repent if the answer s no.

Ana the Ist · Apr 17, 2019

Belk said:
Are you claiming that medical decisions should be open to a public forum?

No one is expecting privacy in a public restroom. It is kind of in the title. That said stalls are still a thing last I checked.

I daresay they expect to have privacy from the opposite sex.

FireDragon76 · Apr 17, 2019

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Entering into Christ's suffering does no mean or imply agreeing with sin or agreeing with satsan's deception, nor does it mean participating in or encouraging another to enter into sin or satan's deception.You misrepresent the apostle's meaning when you take His words out of context. Here is what John said.

Asserting that things are sinful or wrong when they aren't clearly stated in Scriptures, or evident through plain reasoning, is potentially highly abusive. The Church simply does not have that kind of divine authority to bind consciences in that manner.

FireDragon76 · Apr 17, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
I daresay they expect to have privacy from the opposite sex.

Why does that matter? There could be lesbians in the locker room, are we going to ask the lesbians to please leave so that those of tender consciences are not offended?

Belk · Apr 17, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
I daresay they expect to have privacy from the opposite sex.

I would agree that is the cultural norm. However that does not change the basic nature of a public restroom.

Handmaid for Jesus · Apr 17, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
Last time I checked, the Bible never says "thou shalt not transition thy gender", so if we are going to talk about why exactly this is unethical, we need to go beyond merely engaging in biblicism and we need to think more broadly about what Christian ethics looks like.

What kind of thinking is molre broad than the Word of God? :scratch:

I don't know how you see it but the Word is my (personally speaking) plumb line for all truth.

FireDragon76 said:
Asserting that things are sinful or wrong when they aren't clearly stated in Scriptures, or evident through plain reasoning, is potentially highly abusive. The Church simply does not have that kind of divine authority to bind consciences in that manner.

So now scripture is referrenced? :scratch:

You are double minded. And you display that you do not know what The Church is. Therefore you do not know who you are.

Ana the Ist · Apr 17, 2019

Belk said:
What is your area of medical expertise? Because actual experts disagree with you.

Anatomy Does Not Determine Gender, Experts Say

No offense, but your quote is about sex...the article appears to be about gender. I can't read it tho, because it's NYT...

Sex and gender: Meanings, definition, identity, and expression

"In general terms, "sex" refers to the biological differences between males and females, such as the genitalia and genetic differences."

Seems like plenty of experts do think sex refers to genetic differences.

Ana the Ist · Apr 17, 2019

Belk said:
I would agree that is the cultural norm. However that does not change the basic nature of a public restroom.

What is the "basic nature" of a public restroom?

Ana the Ist · Apr 17, 2019

Pommer said:
But...they’re ALL GIRLS, one might have “boy parts”, but they’re all girls.

How would you know that?

How would you know if someone is a boy who wants a peek at girls undressing....or a "girl with boy parts"?

Belk · Apr 17, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
What is the "basic nature" of a public restroom?

That it is public.

Ana the Ist · Apr 17, 2019

Belk said:
That it is public.

And segregated according to sex lol.

Belk · Apr 17, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
No offense, but your quote is about sex...the article appears to be about gender. I can't read it tho, because it's NYT...

Sex and gender: Meanings, definition, identity, and expression

"In general terms, "sex" refers to the biological differences between males and females, such as the genitalia and genetic differences."

Seems like plenty of experts do think sex refers to genetic differences.

Do you disagree that a person can have gender dysphoria? That is the only point I was trying to refute.

Belk · Apr 17, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
And segregated according to sex lol.

Now changing to segregated according to gender.

Ana the Ist · Apr 17, 2019

Belk said:
Do you disagree that a person can have gender dysphoria? That is the only point I was trying to refute.

I'm not entirely sure what that term means.

Belk · Apr 17, 2019

Ana the Ist said:
I'm not entirely sure what that term means.

It is when someone feels that the sex of the body they inhabit is wrong. It is the technical term for what a Transgender person experiences.

Female student files civil rights complaint over boy in girls’ locker room

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