Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?

BobRyan said:

you said "the Galatians were gentiles and former pagans. " -- and that is a fact. Paul is condemning their return to paganism, to observing pagan days... but they never were Jews - and were not "returning to obedience of what was called scripture" as if obeying scripture would be a bad thing.

Paul is not condemning scripture in Gal 4.

In fact when it comes to the Lev 23 list of annual holy days - in Rom 14 Paul defends them all and does not say that to observe one of them is to lose salvation.



Acts 15 is not about gentiles returning to paganism. Gal 4:8-10 is. Details.

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Paul does not believe gentiles should be compelled to practice Jewish holy days, or other Jewish ceremonial customs, and that is what the Sabbath is.

FireDragon76 said:

Paul does not believe gentiles should be compelled to practice Jewish holy days, or other Jewish ceremonial customs, and that is what the Sabbath is.

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That is not true at all. In Romans 14 Paul condemns anyone who would dare to say say anything against the Bible approved holy days of Lev 23. Paul was not only observing Bible holy days - he was also taking ceremonial vows in the temple and paying for other Christian Jews to do the same.

IN Gal 4:8-11 Paul condemns even one observance of a pagan holy day.

Details.

BobRyan said:

Paul and all the Apostles were in fact Jewish. Is it your claim they cannot go to heaven?

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They were not saved because they were observant Jews. To say otherwise contradicts Paul's Gospel of grace.

BobRyan said:

That is not true at all. In Romans 14 Paul condemns anyone who would dare saying anything against the Bible approved holy days of Lev 23.

IN Gal 4:8-11 Paul condemns even one observance of a pagan holy day.

Details.

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You're mixing issues here. I never said anything about speaking against Jewish holy days, merely that they were not required for gentiles to practice.

Nothing is gained by a Christian practicing Jewish holy days in terms of ones standing before God, because our standing before God is based on the merits of Christ alone received through faith.

FireDragon76 said:

They were not saved because they were observant Jews. To say otherwise contradicts Paul's Gospel of grace.

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They don't get excluded from going to heaven simply because they agree that "Taking God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 - is still a sin even for Christians.

Neither Jew nor gentile can go from being lost - to being saved - simply because they stop taking God's name in vain.

Nor can lost gentiles be saved by forcing them to stop taking God's name in vain.

You are introducing an argument against an Idea that is not being promoted here with any one of the commandments.

FireDragon76 said:

Paul does not believe gentiles should be compelled to practice Jewish holy days, or other Jewish ceremonial customs, and that is what the Sabbath is.

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That is not true at all. In Romans 14 Paul condemns anyone who would dare to say say anything against the Bible approved holy days of Lev 23. Paul was not only observing Bible holy days - he was also taking ceremonial vows in the temple and paying for other Christian Jews to do the same.

IN Gal 4:8-11 Paul condemns even one observance of a pagan holy day.

Details.

FireDragon76 said:

You're mixing issues here. I never said anything about speaking against Jewish holy days, merely that they were not required for gentiles to practice.

Nothing is gained by a Christian practicing Jewish holy days in terms of ones standing before God, because our standing before God is based on the merits of Christ alone received through faith.

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Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 where those commands are such that "the first commandment with a promise -- is the 5th commandment" Eph 6:2.

These are details that both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible-Sabbath debate fully agree on. The TEN are written on the heart under Jeremiah's NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-33 AND still binding on all the saints just as Paul points out not only in Roman 7 but also Romans 13 -- appealing to the same pre-cross example Christ gives in Matthew 19.


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I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
C.H. Spurgeon,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

Tone said:

Let's hash this out...

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Of course not. Jesus (being God incarnate) kept the Sabbath and we are to follow in His footsteps.

1 Peter 2:21-25

21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps ..

Always follow the Lamb ;o)

God Bless.

ace of hearts said:

The Galatian church was mixed with Jews and Gentiles. Who was causing problems in the early Church? Was it pagan or Jews? Acts 15 and the historical record of Acts in how Jews treated Paul.

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That's interesting. Where did you find information that the Galatians were a mixed group? (Jews and Gentiles) My sources say they were gentiles.

FireDragon76 said:

They were not saved because they were observant Jews. To say otherwise contradicts Paul's Gospel of grace.

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Revelation 21 (referring to the New Jerusalem in heaven).

14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Tone said:

John 6:63
"The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life."

Don't you believe that the Ten Words are His words...the same Voice?

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The TCs are the old covenant. Five verses earlier, we read this.

John 6:58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Tone said:

Funny you mention the manna since it was used to instruct them concerning the Sabbath.

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So you do understand that the Sabbath was introduced in Exodus chapter sixteen. Very good. Maybe that's not what you meant.

Tone said:

So, you don't treasure the "old covenant"?

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Our former prison guard? "Before the coming of this faith..." ??? (Gal.3:23-24)
The letter of the law kills. It was the transitory ministry that brought condemnation and death which has no glory now. (2Cor.3:6-11)

Other than that, I'm fine with it. lol

Tone said:

Matthew 13:52
He said to them, “Therefore every teacher of the law who has become a disciple in the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.”

I treasure both...

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That's good. (for you)
But I'm not a teacher of the law. (obviously)

Tone said:

The Sabbath was introduced in Genesis...

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Who knew before God told Moses?
The Sabbath points to creation, not vice versa.

Tone said:

Let's hash this out...

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Do you set aside a day of rest?

Do you regularly assemble one with another?

1213 said:

At least Bible doesn’t say it is wrong.

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I would listen to the Holy Spirit's words and convictions. Even though the Word doesnt specify.

To me personally...the Holy Spirit convicts me to keep a day holy.