WHERE DOES IT SAY GOD'S SABBATH IS ABOLSIHED AND WE ARE COMMANDED TO KEEP SUNDAY AS A HOLY DAY?

DamianWarS · Feb 9, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Rubbish. The OP is asking legitimate question as to the to where in All of GOD'S WORD does it say God's 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of SIN when broken under the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 is abolished and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. Do you have any scripture to share? It seems you do not.

only the OP is asking this question and no one else. there is no scripture because it's a pretend argument

The Righterzpen · Feb 9, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello Righterzpen, great to meet you and thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

I am happy to share the GREEK with you if you like but the problem with your post here is in your application and definition of SABBATON. The GREEK word used to translate the HEBREW words SHABBATH has a wider meaning then SHABBATH.

The HEBREW WORD for SABBATH which the GREEK word comes from is שׁבּת; shabbâth from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

The Greek translation of the HEBREW word for SABBATH is SABBATON σάββατον; sabbaton; Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

So the Greek Word has many meanings depending on the CONTEXT that it is being applied within the scriptures. So the CONTEXT of application can give the Greek word SABBATON a different meanings which can mean to any one of the 5 Greek definitions for the application of SABBATON, So depending on the scripture CONTEXT and application SABBATON can mean any one of the 5 definitions listed below;

1, The Sabbath
2, A rest day from working
3, The interval between two Sabbaths (e.g. any day between one Sabbath to another)
4, Plural in all application of Sabbath day, week
5, WEEK (Seven days)

So brother it is the application of the scripture that determines what definition is being applied. The scriptures you provide only show different applicaitons to the word SABBATH which can also mean the interval between Sabbaths (1st day after the Sabbath) or the WEEK itself of the Actual SEVENTH DAY Sabbath.

The naming sytem that ISRAEL used in the HEBREW and the GREEK is in relation to God's naming of the days of the week (e.g Day 1 - fist day after the Sabbath day six or preparation day) The daily naming of the days all revolved around the SABBATH or Sabbaton.

So it is the application and the CONTEXT used that determines the meaning of Sabbaton

Hope this helps.

Except the "interval between sabbaths" is not the word that is used.

If you believe the Scripture is written by inspiration fo the Holy Ghost, than He could very well have used a transliterated word out of the Hebrew, which the Hebrew DOES have a word for "week" which is different from the world "Sabbath". In the Hebrew the word for "week" is derived of the number 7. "Sabbath" is not derived from the Hebrew word 7. It's derived from the Hebrew word "rest". Totally different word.

So why DIDN'T the Holy Spirit use the Hebrew word "week" to transliterate into the Greek? The Hebrew has a word for "week". The Holy Spirit could have just as easily done that; but He didn't. He specifically transliterated the word "Sabbath".

Now the Greek-Roman world did have names for the days of the week. That started in the 1st century BC. The names of the days of the week at that point were planetary names / names of Greek / Roman gods.

The New Testament doesn't use names of days of the week though. If they want to reference a specific day that's not a "Sabbath" or not a feast day; they say "3 days before the Sabbath" or "4 days after Passover". So if the Holy Ghost did NOT want Sunday to be referenced as a "Sabbath"; He would have had them write "The day after the Sabbath"; or "6 days before the following Sabbath."

But that is not what He did. He specifically used the word "Sabbath" as a reference to Sunday.

rockytopva · Feb 9, 2019

To me there are two important parts of a Christian church...

1. The Worship
2. The Word

If the two meet together then it does not matter what day of the week one had church or observed the Holy day.

Oldmantook · Feb 9, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Already been brought up and addressed early in this thread in post 55 linked. Follow the links in the early post if your interested.

The OLD TESTAMENT is written in HEBREW and translated into the GREEK. The HEBREW WORD for SABBATH is SABBATH SHABBATH שׁבּת (H7676) Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

The GREEK translation of the HEBREW word SABBATH SHABBATH שׁבּת is σάββατον; SABBATON; sab'-bat-on Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

NOTE: The application of SABBATON from the GREEk translation of SHABBATH has a wider application than merely GOD'S 4th Commandment or SEVENTH DAY. It also includes ANY DAY OF WEEKLY REPOSE FROM SECULAR WORK. The use of the word SABBATON is not retricted only to the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH of God's 4th Commandment. It can also mean the intervals between the SABBATH depending on the context it is applied in also ANY DAY of the week NO WORK is done. Therefore as the GREEK word has many meanings and applications the CONTEXT of how the GREEK word is used determines the correct definition.

This means ALL the annual feast days that were not the SEVENTH DAY but where no work was to be done are also translated as SABBATON.

These ceremonial "SPECIAL" Sabbaths (plural) were connected to..

* Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24)
* Annual Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32)
* Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39)

These "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

................

The within scripture and chapter CONTEXT is where we then must determine the correct application and meaning of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 which is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS <plural>:

PAUL'S within scriptures CONTEXT and use of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the Sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual BURN'T OFFERING, and his DRINK OFFERING.

ISAIAH 1:10-14 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your NEW MOONS and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

LEVITICUS 23:4 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, HER [ISRAEL'S] FEAST DAYS, her NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all HER [ISRAELS] SOLEMN FEASTS.

wait for it back to the NEW...

HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

HEBREWS 10:1-9
[1], FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, AND NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3], But in those SACRIFICES there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4], For it is not possible that THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS should take away sins.
[5], Why when he comes into the world, he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS YOU WOULD NOT BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME:
[6], IN BURN'T OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAVE HAD NO PLEASURE.
[7], Then said I, See, I come in the VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do your will, O God.
[8], Above when he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU WOULD NOT, neither had pleasure therein; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW;
[9], Then said he, See, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.

NOTE; the LAW in reference here is NOT God's 10 Commandments but the law of sin offereings from the SHADOW laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26 from the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 (Please look at the attached scriptures)

Your use of the GREEK leave out the context of application and word use that PAUL is writing about from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures which are the sacrificial SIN offereings and JEWISH annual festivals that where shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

Ok the above section addressed the use of the GREEK word SABBATON and application and word use in the WITHIN scriptures CONTEXT applied to COLOSSIANS 2:16-17. Let's now look at the within CHAPTER CONTEXT leading up to COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 to determine the topic of conversation.

COL 2:11-17 CHAPTER CONTEXT
[11], In whom also you are CIRCUMCISION with the CIRCUMCISION made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12], Buried with him in baptism, in which also you are risen with him through the faith of the working of God, who has raised him from the dead.
[13], And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[14], BLOTTING OUT the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
[15], And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
[16], Let no man therefore judge you in FOOD AND DRINK, or in respect of a HOLY DAY [FESTIVAL], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:
[17], Which are a SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

CHAPTER CONTEXT OF COL 2:14 AND SUBJECT MATTER (COL 2:11-17)

V11. Shadows of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing to CIRCUMCISION of the HEART MADE WITHOUT HANDS by the CIRCUMCISION of Christ.

THE SHADOW LAWS FORETOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES….

DEUTERONOMY 10:16 [16] CIRCUMCISE THERFORE THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

DEUTERONOMY 30:6 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4:4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

NOTE: NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

ROMANS 2:25-29 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

1 CORITHIANS 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS [NOTE: THE SHADOW OF CIRCUMCSION]: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT. The SHADOW laws of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14

Did you wish to answer the OP now? Where in God's WORD does it say God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sun day as a Holy day?

Hope this helps.

I think a much simpler explanation is that Paul is instructing his audience to not let anyone judge them precisely because of what they were doing regarding their foods, their observances of festivals, New Moons and Sabbath keeping. In other words he was not saying don't do them. He was saying don't let anyone judge you because you are doing them.

Selene03 · Feb 9, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello Selene03, nice to meet you and thanks for sharing your thoughts. Some comments for your consideration below.

Where does it say in ALL or anywhere in God's WORD that God's 4th Commandment from his ETERNAL LAW can be changed? Fact is there is NO scripture anywhere in God's WORD that says God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day is there?

Your correct in that God's SABBATH has it's origin in the creation week where God rested on the SEVENTH DAY and BLESSED the SEVENTH DAY and made it a HOLY DAY as part of a FINISHED WORK of creation BEFORE SIN entered the world for mankind *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27-28.

If God's Sabbath was made on the SEVENTH DAY of the CREATION WEEK, God BLESSED it and made it HOLY BEFORE SIN. Then the SABBATH cannot be a SHADOW law for salvation because there was NO SIN.

Where in God's WORD alone does it say that the "LORD'S DAY" is SUNDAY? Please provide scripture. The LORD'S DAY is not SUNDAY and never has been according to God's WORD. God's WORD alone says that the LORD'S DAY is the SABBATH day. All we need to do is ask the question and let God's WORD answer it.

What day is the LORD'S DAY according to God's WORD?

MATTHEW 12:8. FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY.

Does this scripture say God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

There is no such thing as an eight day week. There are only seven days in a week and God BLESSED and MADE HOLY the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week *GENESIS 2:1-3. JESUS and LORD of the SABBATH that he created for all mankind as part of the FINISHED work of creation BEFORE SIN entered the world when mankind was in perfecrt harmony with God. So the Sabbath cannot be a SHADOW law of anything. It is the 4th Commandments of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken in the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. Accoding to God's WORD if we KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN. God's WORD says that the "LORD'S DAY is the SABBATH day not Sunday *MATTHEW 12:8. There is no scripture in God's WORD saying that the LORD'S DAY is Sunday.

Everyday is the day that the LORD has made. Does this scripture in your view say God's 4th commandment in the 10 commandments has been Abolished and as are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? Forgive me but I cannot find that in this scripture.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Selene.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath. This means that Christ is the One who exercises authority even over the rules and regulations that govern the Sabbath day. In the Old Testament, the Sabbath law stated that no one must do any work; yet, Christ was accused of working on the Sabbath as He healed or cured people. The Pharisees had very strict laws regarding the Sabbath. They had set up strict laws regarding how to observe the Sabbath, which included 39 categories of forbidden activities. In essence, these religious leaders had made themselves lords of the Sabbath, thus making themselves lords over the people. However, Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath. He created the Sabbath, and as Creator, He is greater even than the Sabbath. Christ interpreted the true meaning of the Sabbath....that one is to keep holy the Sabbath day by doing good.

As Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus had the authority to change the Sabbath to the Lord’s Day, a day of worship. Christ is the true “Sabbath rest”. When He said, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath” Jesus was attesting to the fact that, just as the Sabbath day was originally instituted to give man rest from his labors, so did He come to provide us rest from laboring to achieve our own salvation by our works. Because of His sacrifice on the cross, we can now forever cease laboring to attain God’s favor and rest in His mercy and grace.

You ask about the "Lord's Day." The "Lord's Day" is mention only in the Book of Revelations (Rev. 1:10). The Lord's Day is Sunday because that was the day Christ rose from the dead....Sunday. The resurrection (Easter) is important to all Christians for it's the day Christ conquered death.

Yes, there is an eighth day. The eighth day is the same as the first day of the week......Sunday. According to Jewish custom, Jesus was circumcised on the eighth day.

Leviticus 12:3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

In the New Testament, baptism replaced circumcision.

rockytopva · Feb 9, 2019

Where in the New Testement was Saturday service emphasized? Christ himself stayed in trouble for not observing it.

At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. - Matthew 12:1-2

And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. - Matthew 12:9-10

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. - John 5:16

Oldmantook · Feb 9, 2019

rockytopva said:
Where in the New Testement was Saturday service emphasized? Christ himself stayed in trouble for not observing it.

At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. - Matthew 12:1-2

And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. - Matthew 12:9-10

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. - John 5:16

No. Jesus did not sin did he? The Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath but they based their false accusation on rabbinical tradition instead of the Law itself.

klutedavid · Feb 9, 2019

Hello LGW.

Here are the verses that you provided to support the claim that everyone is bound by the ten commandments.

JAMES 2:8-10; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20; 1 JOHN 3:4;

Not one of these verses mention the ten commandments by themselves, every verse quoted above states the wider phrase 'the law'.

You are not permitted to say that you are only under the ten commandments, because these verses do not allow you to say that. If you are bound by the law, then these verses state that you are under the entire legal system.

The whole law grants the knowledge of sin not some subset of the law.

Breaching any law is a sin, it is a transgression, sin is always sin.

You can obey the law against say coveting but at the same time oppress widows and orphans.
Do you honestly believe that you will escape the wrath of God for hurting widows and orphans?

Seriously LGW, do you believe that you are not under the entire law?

DamianWarS · Feb 9, 2019

@LoveGodsWord

...too late... you already have

nonaeroterraqueous · Feb 9, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
It is asking where is the scripture that says God's 4th Commandments is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

I'm surprised to see that you did not gather from my post that I said nothing about it being abolished, nor that we were commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day. I thought I was clear on that. If the rest are in error, then so are you, and if they are condemned, then so are you.

Because you seem to have skimmed my post and missed the point, then I will restate it: nowhere in scripture did it say that God's 4th commandment was abolished and that we were commanded to keep Saturday as a holy day. Before the Sabbath was arbitrarily moved from Saturday to Sunday, it was first moved from the seventh day of the Hebrew lunar calendar to the seventh day of the Roman solar calendar, which was not the same day, nor could it have ever been, even by blind luck.

As to your post however, the calander is not really relavent to God's SEVENTH DAY weekly SABBATH commandment because it is simply every SEVENTH DAY of the weekly cycle.

The seventh day of whose weekly cycle? You presume to suggest that a secular godless head of state can arbitrarily declare a change to the week and put the Sabbath on a completely different day? If it was wrong for a Roman pontiff, who at least presumes to be a Christian religious leader, to arbitrarily redefine the "seventh day," then how can it be better for the Roman Caesar to do the same?

Like I say, whatever the consequences of celebrating the sabbath on the wrong day, you're in the same boat as the rest of us.

GingerBeer · Feb 9, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
νομικός; nomikos From G3551; according (or pertaining) to law, that is, legal (ceremonially); as noun, an expert in the (Mosaic) law: - about the law, lawyer.

Titus 3:9 But avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels over the law, for they are unprofitable and futile.

Titus 3:9 μωρὰς δὲ ζητήσεις καὶ γενεαλογίας καὶ ἔρεις καὶ μάχας νομικὰς περιΐστασο· εἰσὶ γὰρ ἀνωφελεῖς καὶ μάταιοι.

The words in in Titus 3:9 shown in bold and underlined in English are also bold and underlined in Greek.

In the definition shown below which is taken from "The Complete WordStudy Dictionary" of 1993 AD the word for "the law" is shown. It is νομικός nomikos. No mentioon of "ceremonial" is present. What is the source for the definition that you posted?

νομικός

nomikós; fem. nomikḗ, neut. nomikón, adj. from nómos (G3551), law. Pertaining to the law, a matter of law; subst. one skilled in the law, a lawyer. Lawyers appear together with the Pharisees in Luk 7:30 and Luk 14:3. Apparently they were from among the Pharisees (Mat 22:35) and with the scribes (Mar 12:28; Luk 10:25; Luk 11:45-46, Luk 11:52) and were experts in the Mosaic law. In all places where the word is employed and legal questions come into consideration, the scribes appear as authorities in questions concerning prophecy (Mat 2:4; Mat 13:52). It may be inferred that "scribes" is a generic name, and the nomikoí, lawyers, are the specialised ones skilled in law and jurisprudence of the Law of Moses. Nomodidáskalos (G3547), teacher of the law (Luk 5:17; Act 5:34), is apparently another name. Probably the members of the Sanhedrin and the Council were learned in the law. The lawyer Zenas, whom Paul mentions in Tit 3:13, was probably an attorney of Roman law and not Mosaic law.

Commentaries do not generally refer "the law" to ceremonial matters exclusively.
For example Robertson's word pictures says

Titus 3:9
Fightings about the law (machas nomikas). “Legal battles.” See note on 1Ti 6:4; 2Ti 2:23. Wordy fights about Mosaic and Pharisaic and Gnostic regulations.
Shun (periistaso). Present middle imperative of periistēmi, intransitive, step around, stand aside (2Ti 2:16). Common in this sense in the literary Koiné.
Unprofitable (anōpheleis). Old compound adjective (a privative and ophelos), in N.T. only here and Heb 7:18.

And Albert Barnes says

Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish questions and genealogies - See the 1Ti 1:4 note; 2Ti 2:16, 2Ti 2:23 notes.
And contentions, and strivings about the law - Such as the Jews started about various matters connected with the law - about meats and drinks, etc.; the notes at 1Ti 1:4; compare the notes at Act 18:15.
For they are unprofitable and vain - - They disturb and embitter the feelings; they lead to the indulgence of a bad spirit; they are often difficult to be settled, and are of no practical importance if they could be determined. The same thing might be said of multitudes of things about which men dispute so earnestly now.

And the Cambridge Bible Commentary says

Titus 3:9
The summary of the other chief topic of the letter; the dealing with the false teaching and evil living of the day. See note above.
avoid foolish questions] The Greek puts the errors first in stronger contrast to the good; ‘questions’ should be ‘questionings’ as in 1Ti 1:4. see note there; where also ‘genealogies’ is considered. ‘Genealogies’ would be a special and prevailing theme of the ‘questionings,’ and ‘fightings about the law,’ of the ‘contentions,’ as Bp Ellicott points out, following Wiesinger. Cf. 1Ti 6:4; 2Ti 2:23; and Introduction on the Gnostic heresy. Keeping the A.V. avoid we may give it the due emphasis at the close, as we cannot with ‘shun’ of R.V. ‘Avoid’ from Fr. vuider, vider, ‘to make empty,’ is used intransitively and transitively, exactly as the Greek word here is also used to ‘give a wide berth,’ ‘to stand off and make a circuit.’ Cf. 1Sa 18:11, where R.V. still has ‘David avoided out of his presence twice;’ Pro 4:15, ‘walk not in the way of evil men: avoid it, pass not by it.’
unprofitable and vain] ‘Vain’ is added to intensify ‘unprofitable’; from its use here then it should mean ‘vain’ in its results, and be opposed to ‘good,’ which is ‘seen to be good’ above. So in 1Co 15:17, ‘your faith is vain, ye are yet in your sins.’ While above, Tit 3:14, ‘our preaching is void; your faith also is void: we are found false witnesses;’ there is no true basis of fact for preaching or faith; the word there being different. See Bp Ellicott’s note, and references.

chilehed · Feb 9, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello brother chilehed, welcome here brother. Nice to meet you here and thanks for sharing your thoughts...

I gather that you can't answer the question that is logically prior to that of the OP.

AvgJoe · Feb 9, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
1, If the SABBATH was made in SEVENTH DAY of the CREATION WEEK *GENESIS 2:1-3 and JESUS says that the Sabbath was made for mankind and he is the LORD of it *MARK 2:27-28. How can the SABBATH be made for only the JEWS when there was no JEWS when the SABBATH was made?

Yes, the first reference to the Sabbath is found in Genesis 2:3, however, this was God's rest. No obligation on man's part, to keep the Sabbath, is even implied in this passage. After this first mention of the Sabbath, there is silence for 2500 years; not a word is given concerning it.

The first mention of the Sabbath, since the time when God ceased from His labors on the seventh day, is found in Exodus 16:23. Reference is also made to this in Nehemiah 9:13-14. In Exodus 20:8-11, the Sabbath law is made a part of the Ten Commandments.

With whom was it, that God made the Sabbath covenant? It was made with the children of Israel, the Jews, in Exodus 31:13-17

LoveGodsWord said:
2, Where in ACTS 15 does it say it is referring to God's 10 commandments when the CONTEXT and issue of discussion was "IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION" which is the CONTEXT of ACTS 15. *ACTS 15:1-2?

Acts 15:5

5 But then some of the believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and insisted, “The Gentile converts must be circumcised and required to follow the law of Moses.”

The discussion expanded to cover the law of Moses, the first 5 books of the Bible, which includes the 10 Commandments.

LoveGodsWord said:
4, JESUS and the APOSTLES who are our examples went to Church the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH according to God's 4th commandment are they contradicting Sunday worship?

Certainly Jesus kept the Sabbath. He had not been crucified, therefore, the Law was still in force and Jesus, being a Jew, had to keep the Law too, including the law of the Sabbath. Galatians 3:19 teaches that the Law, as given by Moses, was in place until Christ died. Since the Apostles were Jews as well, they too certainly observed the Sabbath while the Law was still in force.

After the crucifixion, Christ is not spoken of once as keeping the Sabbath, instead, He left us the example of the Lord's Day. Also after the crucifixion, before chapter 18, the Sabbath is mentioned eight times in the Book of the Acts. These were times when the Apostles were preaching Jesus to the Jews, which was most easily done on the Sabbath, since the Jews kept the Sabbath. After Acts 18 the Sabbath is not mentioned once in the Scriptures, with the exception of Colossians 2:16, where it is merely mentioned, showing that it has been abolished in view of the Dispensation of Grace.

LoveGodsWord said:
5, Is there freedom in Chrsit for Christians to go out and lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, use Gods name in vain.... ?

I haven't seen that in the Bible. But, concerning the Sabbath, I have seen, in Colossians 2:16 (AMP), where Paul says, "Therefore let no one judge you in regard to food and drink or in regard to [the observance of] a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day." I don't think he could have said it any more plainly than that.

LoveGodsWord said:
Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *ROMANS 3:4; MATTHEW 15:3-9

Yes, something we agree on.

DamianWarS · Feb 9, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi AveJoe nice to see you. Are you posting the Word of website or Word of God? Questions for your post.

1, If the SABBATH was made in SEVENTH DAY of the CREATION WEEK *GENESIS 2:1-3 and JESUS says that the Sabbath was made for mankind and he is the LORD of it *MARK 2:27-28. How can the SABBATH be made for only the JEWS when there was no JEWS when the SABBATH was made?

2, Where in ACTS 15 does it say it is referring to God's 10 commandments when the CONTEXT and issue of discussion was "IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION" which is the CONTEXT of ACTS 15. *ACTS 15:1-2?

3, According to God's WORD the early CHRISTIANS met EVERYDAY of the WEEK *ACTS 2:46-47 how does this support SUNDAY worship and how does this say God's 4th commandment is ABOLISHED and we are not commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

4, JESUS and the APOSTLES who are our examples went to Church the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH according to God's 4th commandment are they contradicting Sunday worship?

5, Is there freedom in Chrsit for Christians to go out and lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, use Gods name in vain.... ?

6, The OLD COVENANT was made up of the ceremonial SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 and God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that gives us the knowledge of what SIN is in both the OLD and NEW COVENANTS *ROMANS 3:20. What law is being discussed in Colossians 2:16-17?

7, If someone breaks God's LAW (10 commandments) is it God's WORD that judges them? If your brother is knowingly doing something that will keep him out of God's KINGDOM are we as God's people responsible for their blood if we know and do nothing to help those that are following sin *EXEKIEL 3:17-21?

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *ROMANS 3:4; MATTHEW 15:3-9

God bless

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did I say this was a Straw man?

LoveGodsWord · Feb 9, 2019

Foxfyre said:
The short answer is that the Sabbath Day is pretty arbitrary and we would have to go back more than a half dozen centuries to realize that most then didn't observe it on the same day of the week as they do now.

The Gregorian Calendar which is accepted by most of the world now was not established until the 16th Century and advanced the current day by I think 12 days if I remember correctly, so certainly Saturday or Sunday was changed to a different day than it would have been under the old Julian Calendar that did not accurately represent a full year or allow for the quarterly equinoxes.

To assume that we know exactly now what day the Lord rested if we traced the Gregorian Calendar back to the beginning just doesn't hold up in the most basic common sense equation. For those to whom the exact date is important, I can believe that God blesses you for being faithful to what you believe is right.

For the rest of us, I just don't think Jesus, God with us, was all that concerned with following rules to the letter just because they were rules. I think he does not want us to work 24/7 and wants us to take a weekly day of rest and honor him. . .UNLESS. . .our figurative ox is in the ditch--for real and not for just an excuse--in which case I don't think it is a cardinal sin to figuratively pull it out. And I don't think God cares which day of the week we observe as the Sabbath personally, as a church community, or in our immediate society.

I am old enough to remember when towns pretty much rolled up the sidewalks on Saturday night, all businesses and services closed except those that simply had to operate on Sunday--hospitals and such--and Sunday was then observed by all as the Sabbath whether he/she was Christian or not. In those days the Jews and Saturday observing Christians all got two days of rest because they did observe Friday sundown to Saturday sundown as the Sabbath but since nobody would do business on Sunday, they didn't bother to run their businesses then either even if the 'blue laws' had allowed that.

And in retrospect, that tradition was a good thing.

Hello Foxfyre, nice to meet you and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

As to the Gregorian calander it really makes no difference to God's 4th commandment and the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is every SEVENTH DAY (Sunset to Sunset God's time). The Sabbath can be shown in both biblical history (Scripture) and non biblical History that it has been kept unbroken from GENESIS to the days of JESUS and the APOSTLES while JESUS was alive and after the death of JESUS all through time to this very present day.

The OP is to ask where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY. JESUS says all those who KNOWINGLY follow the teachings and tradtitions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. God's 4th Commandment in the NEW COVENANT is one of the 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. God's WORD also says if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11.

I believe God's people are in every Church. These are those who are living up to all the truth in God's WORD that God has revealed to them. In times of IGNORANCE God does not hold us accountable to sin *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17 until we RECEIVE a KNOWLEDGE of the truth and grow through as we CONTINUE in his WORD *JOHN 8:31. Once a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come God calls all men everywhere to REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD *ACTS 17:30. If we reject God's WORD then we are no longer BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God because we are still in our sins. ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 Commandments) will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

God's people are in every Church. God's is calling all his people where ever they may be to COME OUT of following the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God to worship GOD in SPIRIT and in truth. *JOHN 4:23-24

In times of IGNORANCE God winks at but when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent and BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD *ACTS 17:30-31.

God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word)

Where is the scriptures that say GOD's 4th commandment has been abolshed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

LoveGodsWord · Feb 9, 2019

DamianWarS said:
did I say this was a Straw man?

Yep you have no scripture to share with the op brother have you

LoveGodsWord · Feb 9, 2019

John Tar said:
Look at yourself

Indeed we must examine ourselves everyday to see wheather we are in the faith or not. That is the reason for this OP. Did you have any scriptures to share brother?

LoveGodsWord · Feb 9, 2019

rockytopva said:
My bones against the SDA are not in the doctrine but in the service. To me it is just another cut and dry denomination. In which I must say my denomination. Pentecostal Holiness, is getting that way too. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2:4-5 I prefer a heartfelt spiritual experience rather than an intellectual mindset. Here is our old pastor leading song service accompanied with shouting and a wonderful spirituality (on a Sunday morning at that)...

Brother it is JESUS that says that all those who KNOWINGLY follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. God's 4th Commandment in the NEW COVENANT is one of the 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. God's WORD also says if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11.

I believe God's people are in every Church. These are those who are living up to all the truth in God's WORD that God has revealed to them. In times of IGNORANCE God does not hold us accountable to sin *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17 until we RECEIVE a KNOWLEDGE of the truth and grow through as we CONTINUE in his WORD *JOHN 8:31. Once a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come God calls all men everywhere to REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD *ACTS 17:30. If we reject God's WORD then we are no longer BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God because we are still in our sins. ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 Commandments) will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

God's people are in every Church. God's is calling all his people where ever they may be to COME OUT of following the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God to worship GOD in SPIRIT and in truth. *JOHN 4:23-24

In times of IGNORANCE God winks at but when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent and BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD *ACTS 17:30-31.

God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word)

Where is the scriptures that say GOD's 4th commandment has been abolshed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

LoveGodsWord · Feb 9, 2019

chilehed said:
I gather that you can't answer the question that is logically prior to that of the OP.

Of course it was answered in the previous post to you. According to God's WORD JESUS is the LIVING WORD of GOD who has given mankind the spoken and written Word of God. God's WORD say ONLY God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it *ROMANS 3:4.

Our salvation only God's from the living WORD of GOD revealed to us through the written WORD of GOD that is why it is written in JOHN 17:17 that our Sanctification comes from the truth and the truth is defined in God's WORD as the WORD of GOD. So it is the WORD if GOD alone that leads to the true faith.

This OP is asking the question where in God's WORD does it say that God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. Do you have any scriptures to share?

LoveGodsWord · Feb 9, 2019

John Tar said:
How can you fight for Jesus the Christ if you not of Him?

All I see is a drowning man desperately crying for help of men...

But the Word of the Lord has no place for confusion:

Are you still under the "curse of the Law" Gal 3:13 not a Christian?

..."for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain"
Gal 2:21

Read Gal 2:16

"The sting of death is sin: and the strength of sin is the law"
1 Cor 15:56

Rom 3:27, 7:4, 8:2

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Rom 10:4

Mat 5:17

Mark 12 28:34

1 John 2:27

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

NOTE: This is the difference between the people of GOD and the people of the devil.

1 JOHN 3:3-10
[3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
[4], Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

GOD’S PEOPLE KEEP ALL OF GOD’S COMMANDMENTS BY FAITH AND ARE SEALED WITH GOD’S SPIRIT

.................

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

REVELATION 12:17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

REVELATION 14:12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

.................

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

REVELATION 22:14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

..................

WHO HAS GOD'S SPIRIT?

ACTS 5:32, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM WHO OBEY HIM.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

WHERE DOES IT SAY GOD'S SABBATH IS ABOLSIHED AND WE ARE COMMANDED TO KEEP SUNDAY AS A HOLY DAY?

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