Is The Sinner’s Prayer Biblical?


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Bible Highlighter

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You are saying it is a metaphor, Paul is clearly simply making a point. The prior verse makes that extremely clear.
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: - Romans 6:3-5
We are raised a new creature in Christ, having our sins forgiven. Our old body of sin is crucified with Christ.
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. - Romans 6:6

It says planted together in the LIKENESS. Likenesses is not exactness.
I can say that Rick is like a squirrel, but that does not mean he is a squirrel.
 
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Carl Emerson

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What does calling Jesus lord signify to you?
The Etheopian eunuch heard the word and was baptized right away. On the day of pentecost, those who had heard the word said what MUST we do. Peter's answer:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. - Acts 2:38

IN HIM

Knowing that Jesus is Lord, is of no eternal value, the demons know and shudder.

Biblical faith is more than a mindset of trust in something or someone.

Biblical faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ first - then we respond in trust or unbelief.

If you are not hearing Jesus you have a serious problem regardless of the 'works' you perform - this is the essence of the passage you quoted.
Simply put in John 8:27 "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me, and I give eternal life to them, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand...." The condemned in you passage you quoted were not hearing His voice and therefore did not have biblical faith.

So a 'normal' biblical relationship with Jesus includes what we read in 1 John 27 "As for you - the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you, but as His anointing teaches you about all things and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in him...."

Would that this was normal among those who claim to be Christians.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson
 
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Just_a_Christian

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It says planted together in the LIKENESS. Likenesses is not exactness.
I can say that Rick is like a squirrel, but that does not mean he is a squirrel.
Of course it says likeness, who among us is actually able to go back in time and "drink of the cup" which He did. Or get on a literal cross today, thanks be to Him we aren't asked to do that, but only be baptised.
In Him
 
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Just_a_Christian

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Knowing that Jesus is Lord, is of no eternal value, the demons know and shudder.
That is exactly correct, the scriptures that go along with that verse are teaching that faith only is DEAD. But yet one is unable to "earn" their salvation.
Biblical faith is more than a mindset of trust in something or someone.
Yes, it is.
Biblical faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ first - then we respond in trust or unbelief.
You left out, at least one, CRITICAL option. One can trust, but if he's unwilling to obey God, his faith is useless. Obedience and "good works" are two distinctly different things.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. - 1 John 2:4-5
If you are not hearing Jesus you have a serious problem regardless of the 'works' you perform - this is the essence of the passage you quoted.
Simply put in John 8:27 "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me, and I give eternal life to them, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand...." The condemned in you passage you quoted were not hearing His voice and therefore did not have biblical faith.
Read this passage again
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: - Matthew 7:22-24
If you'll notice the Lord here is talking about the judgement. It is very clear these who called Jesus Lord, Lord, believed and they did many wonderful works, but they did not obey, or DO his sayings. To them He will give them their reward.
Again obedience and "good works", apples and oranges.
That is precisely why Abraham is called the father of us all. What was unique about Abraham's faith?? It was the fact that when God told him to go, he went. When God said offer me your only son, he did. Obedience is one thing God has required from man, since creation, to be pleasing unto Him. The gospel of Jesus Christ is not something we must only believe and trust in, but we must obey the gospel. Again, obedience and "good works" are different. Read the following:
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. - Romans 10:16-21
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1 Peter 4:17
When one is told to do something it is called obeying......
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 
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Carl Emerson

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Yes, pretty much in agreement, however I see two 'voices of God' that should not be confused. The first is His voice through creation that all mankind hears and are judged by. This is outlined in Rom 1:18 following. The second is His personal voice to us that results in faith if we believe and as you say obey. The truth that underpins this discussion however, that acutely makes a distinction between the faith walk in the old covenant and the new covenant is spelled out in Jer 32:37 following... Clearly God intended to change the way He was relating to believers through Christ by promising to indwell the believers and seal them against disobedience to His Word by the indwelling fear of Him. This is a beautiful truth often missed. A promise of the indwelling Spirit first to the Jew but then to the gentile also - confirmed in Acts 15:7-11. By this means we are sealed against the ravages of our flesh nature by His grace. So we are captive by the love and fear of God to obedience. So in preaching the Law we must be careful not to put a yoke on the neck of the hearers that they are unable to bear. Acts 15:10 We have a truely awesome Father who loves us enormously with a love we could never earn by any means. He not only personally indwells us but is actively involved in our lives for good. This is the good news of the kingdom when He is enthroned in our hearts. Sadly I see however that many shy away from giving Him full control and miss out on the many blessings and rewards He intended.

Blessings to all who read.

Carl Emerson.
 
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timothyu

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He not only personally indwells us but is actively involved in our lives for good. This is the good news of the kingdom when He is enthroned in our hearts.

So they shall never self justify, self determine, seek gain at the expense of others, redefine good and evil or take sides in tribal disputes ever again.. perfect? No more humble sinner?
 
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the new covenant consist of being born again of water and the spirit. the spirit was not poured out until the day of Pentecost. This is when the new covenant came into effect. the guy on the cross was not under the new covenant as the holy ghost was not yet poured out and Jesus had not even resurrected yet.

This is an off topic discussion to the Sinner's Prayer.

So I replied to you in this thread here:

Old Testament saints were born again.
 
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The indwelling spirit promised to come with the New Covenant in Jeramiah 31 and 32 was available before Pentecost as Jesus appeared to the disciples and breathed on them, they received His indwelling presence - John 20:22. The giving of the Spirit at Pentecost was an empowering for ministry the same was as Jesus received as a permanent anointing to empower His ministry. Salvation comes with the indwelling of Jesus in the New Covenant. Empowering for ministry is a different issue.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

This topic is an off topic discussion. This thread is about the Sinner's Prayer. To talk more about this other topic, please see this thread here:

Old Testament saints were born again.
 
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the new covenant consist of being born again of water and the spirit. the spirit was not poured out until the day of Pentecost. This is when the new covenant came into effect. the guy on the cross was not under the new covenant as the holy ghost was not yet poured out and Jesus had not even resurrected yet.

This thread is about the Sinner's Prayer. So I replied to you in this thread here.

Old Testament saints were born again.
 
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Not at all, as Paul takes time to explain in Romans 7, we are far from perfection - a work in progress...

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

I do not believe Paul was speaking as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24. It was not his struggle with sin as a Christian but when he was a Pharisee who was under the Law before he came to Christ. He was recounting his experience in the present tense form of his struggle with sin as a Pharisee (who was trying to wrongfully be saved by Law Alone without God's grace through Jesus Christ).

This thread topic is about the Sinner's Prayer, so I replied to you in more depth in this thread here:

Paul was speaking from his life as a Pharisee in Romans 7 and not as a Christian.
 
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Fidelibus

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You seem to be somewhat splitting hairs here.

Not really, For example, I'll borrow an analogy from apologist Karl Keating at Catholicanswers.com:

"A rock is never infallible. Nor is it fallible. It is neither because it makes no decision about anything. Ditto for a plant. No sunflower ever made the right decision—or the wrong decision. In fact, no sunflower ever made any decision, properly speaking.

The same can be said of a book. No book, not even the Bible, is capable of making a decision. This means it would be wrong to say that the Bible is either infallible or fallible—such terms should not be used about it or about any other book."

So again, I stand on the proper term to use, when we are saying that the Bible contains no error, is inerrant. In its teaching, a particular book may contain truth or may contain error; most likely it will teach some of each. The one exception is the Bible. The Catholic Church teaches that everything the Bible asserts (properly understood, of course) is true and therefore without error.

Seeing that the nature of God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, He has insured that all I need to be pleasing unto Him is His written word, the Bible.

"And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:15-17"

I am very familiar with these passages sola scripturists use to prove that the Bible is the sole authority of God’s word, for I too used them before my conversion to Catholicism. let's look at these verses more closely.

In verse 2 Tim. 3:15.... Paul then appeals to the sacred writings of Scripture referring to the Old Testament Scriptures with which Timothy was raised (not the New Testament which was not even compiled at the time of Paul’s teaching). This verse also proves that one can come to faith in Jesus Christ without the New Testament.

In 2 Tim. 3:16.... this verse says that Scripture is “profitable” for every good work, but not exclusive. The word “profitable” is “ophelimos” in Greek. “Ophelimos” only means useful, which underscores that Scripture is not mandatory or exclusive. Also, are you familiar familiar with the Greek phrase "pasa graphe"?

In 2 Tim. 3:17..... St.Paul’s reference to the “man of God” who may be complete refers to a clergyman, not a layman. It is an instruction to a bishop of the Church. Further in vs. 17 St.Paul’s use of the word “complete” for every good work is “artios” which simply means the clergy is “suitable” or “fit.” Also, artios does not describe the Scriptures, it describes the clergyman. So I fail to see how adhereant's to sola scriptura can use this verse in theit arguement for sola scriptura.

Another trait of God is that since He is God, He is unable to lie and He changes not.

Of course

If you do not believe in the God that I do and that the Bible is sufficient for salvation, then sadly we have nothing further to discuss.

Pretty sure, if you beleive in the one Triune God. However, where we disagree is in the doctrine of 'sola scriptrua', the belief that the Bible is sufficient as a sole rule of faith. For nowhere in the Bible does it state such a thing. One of the main reasons for my conversion to the Catholic faith besides the history of the early church (pre-reformation history of Christianty)..... was the fact that if sola scriptura is the correct doctrine, and that the Bible is self-sufficient word of God, wouldn’t everyone get the same interpretation from it, and wouldn't there not be thousands of different Protestant/non-denominational chueches,sects, and home churches? This thread is a perfect example. Look at all the dis-agreements amongst bible alone believers on what they believe a certain passage means or not means. All supposedly under the guidence of the Holy Spirit.


I do hope that is not the case!

I hope not either, for I do enjoy our discussions


have a Blessed Day!
 
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