McJesus. The debate of Art versus Religious Blasphemy

Petros2015 · Jan 16, 2019

Ronald died so that our cholesterol would be forgiven?

Hmm...

"Take, eat, this is my burger..."

Nah... I'm going to pass on this one.

Dave-W · Jan 16, 2019

Par5 said:
Giving the cross an almost iconic religious status could be regarded as idolatry don't you think?

To traditional Jewish eyes, it certainly looks like that.

Dave-W · Jan 16, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
Of course I know that, and I'm sure that's what people see in their minds when they see the "Art" the op presented, and it's title.

Not....please.

Perhaps Par was right that the symbol of the cross has become a prohibited idol.

MehGuy · Jan 16, 2019

As someone who tries to champion the concept of freedom of speech, I believe art should be free game for anyone to express themselves. Be it religious insensitivity, racial insensitivity, etc..

If a work of art offends you, I am sure the group who applauds or produces such art has their own cherished subjects you can mock in return.. lol. Much better than resorting to physical violence.

essentialsaltes · Jan 17, 2019

FoxNews: Controversial 'McJesus' art sculpture defended by Israel

Bonus detail: "The sculpture's Finnish artist, Jani Leinonen, wants his artwork removed -- but for a different reason. He supports the pro-Palestinian group, Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, or BDS, which discourages doing business with the Jewish state."

Zoii · Jan 17, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
FoxNews: Controversial 'McJesus' art sculpture defended by Israel

Bonus detail: "The sculpture's Finnish artist, Jani Leinonen, wants his artwork removed -- but for a different reason. He supports the pro-Palestinian group, Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, or BDS, which discourages doing business with the Jewish state."

Quite the controversial person

RDKirk · Jan 17, 2019

Zoii said:
Well no - You missed the point - The artist is indicating how corporations are lauded to massively influential status akin to a religion.

The thread though looks at the question: if we use a religious image to make a particular statement, is that off-limits - Does it warrant the action it received

Two things:

1. The artist himself did not want that work displayed in the museum.

2. Unlike many countries considered Western, in Israel Christians are an abused minority. Most of the Christians in the area are Palestinians. It wasn't the artist's intent to further abuse Christians (i.e., Palestinians) in Israel, but it may well have been the Israeli intent.

RDKirk · Jan 17, 2019

TagliatelliMonster said:
Honestly, his intent does not matter.
His intent might just as well be "I just did it to annoy christians", and it would make no difference.

No matter his intent, people looking at it will have their own ideas about it. That's kind of the thing with art. It's very subjective and everybody looks at it through their own goggles.

And, more importantly, no matter his intent - it doesn't affect his constitutional right to create things like this. In fact, there's no law forcing any artist to explain his work.

Actually, there is not a US "Constitutional" right involved. Israel's laws already forbid such negative depictions of Judaism, and I guarantee you that radical Jews in Israel would go to war over such things if the table was turned.

RDKirk · Jan 17, 2019

MehGuy said:
As someone who tries to champion the concept of freedom of speech, I believe art should be free game for anyone to express themselves. Be it religious insensitivity, racial insensitivity, etc..

If a work of art offends you, I am sure the group who applauds or produces such art has their own cherished subjects you can mock in return.. lol. Much better than resorting to physical violence.

Maybe violent protest is performance art....

MehGuy · Jan 17, 2019

RDKirk said:
Maybe violent protest is performance art....

Touché, lol..

Dave-W · Jan 17, 2019

RDKirk said:
2. Unlike many countries considered Western, in Israel Christians are an abused minority. Most of the Christians in the area are Palestinians.

Old information. The Palestinian Christian population has went from several thousand to less than 500 in the last 2 decades. Islamic pressure has them to move away.

There are many more European and American church people there than Palestinian Christians now. And us Messianics are growing as well.

As to persecuted, the Messianics bear the brunt of that; but not from the government. It is from the Ultra Orthodox community.

Zoii · Jan 17, 2019

RDKirk said:
Maybe violent protest is performance art....

um..no - but a creative try - artistic even

RDKirk · Jan 17, 2019

Dave-W said:
Old information. The Palestinian Christian population has went from several thousand to less than 500 in the last 2 decades. Islamic pressure has them to move away.

There are many more European and American church people there than Palestinian Christians now. And us Messianics are growing as well.

And they found the display of a clown as Christ by the Jewish majority offensive.

essentialsaltes · Jan 17, 2019

You got your McJesus thread in my hamberder thread!

You got your hamberder thread in my McJesus thread!

Dave-W · Jan 18, 2019

RDKirk said:
And they found the display of a clown as Christ by the Jewish majority offensive.

But the Christian community (or the Jewish community) is not going to start rioting world wide like the Islamic community would if the image was one of Ronald McMohammed.

essentialsaltes · Jan 20, 2019

'McJesus' Sculpture To Be Pulled From Israeli Museum After Violent Protests

Less than a week after hundreds of Christian protesters descended on the Haifa Museum of Art, clashing with police in a demonstration against a controversial sculpture, the Israeli city's mayor says the object of their outrage is getting withdrawn.

"We regret the distress experienced by the Christian community in Haifa, and the physical injury and violence that followed," Kalisch-Rotem added, referring to the bloodshed that left three police officers injured last Friday.

This is why we can't have nice blasphemous things.

durangodawood · Jan 20, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
....This is why we can't have nice blasphemous things.

Maybe, except this wasnt nice, nor even clever.

Well, ok, the cross itself is a pretty nice piece of construction.

RDKirk · Jan 20, 2019

Dave-W said:
But the Christian community (or the Jewish community) is not going to start rioting world wide like the Islamic community would if the image was one of Ronald McMohammed.

You didn't understand my point.

Christians are not a disrepected minority in other areas of the West. Bringing up Muslims is just "whataboutism."

Hearingheart · Jan 21, 2019

Zoii said:
A sculpture of Ronald McDonald nailed to a cross — a spoof of the crucifixion of Jesus — has sparked violent protests in Israel, with rioters hurling a firebomb at the museum.
View attachment 249121

'McJesus' exhibit featuring crucified Ronald McDonald sparks violent protests

The statements that art can express can be confronting and even offensive. The result can spark violence from religious groups. We've seen it with Moslems over cartoon depictions of Mohammed, and now firebombing from Christians in Israel.

If the artist's message had to do with worshiping commercialism, one would think it would be better to use a throne instead of a cross. A cross would be for crucifying/killing (which would work if the message were to crucify commercialism). Probably would be to obvious and not get as much of a reaction.
What I always find interesting is the reaction of the religious on how their symbols and idols are treated.

Rajni · Jan 21, 2019

Zoii said:
A sculpture of Ronald McDonald nailed to a cross — a spoof of the crucifixion of Jesus — has sparked violent protests in Israel, with rioters hurling a firebomb at the museum.
View attachment 249121

'McJesus' exhibit featuring crucified Ronald McDonald sparks violent protests

The statements that art can express can be confronting and even offensive. The result can spark violence from religious groups. We've seen it with Moslems over cartoon depictions of Mohammed, and now firebombing from Christians in Israel.

They need to remember Jesus wasn't the only one who got crucified back in the day. That image could be spoofing the crucifixion of one of the two thieves or some other average Joe who ended up on one.

In short, crosses weren't just all about Jesus when crosses were the norm.

McJesus. The debate of Art versus Religious Blasphemy

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Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

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