CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

LoveGodsWord said:

By then if there is not agreement now there will be disappointment latter.

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I thought so also when I posted, right up until a minute ago ....

then by sheer grace, God's Graciousness Immeasurable and Undeserved,
I realized some of the things not agreed upon here,
will instantly be agreed upon there, as we will be like Him when we see Him, and those things that are possible not to matter, will suddenly and totally be forgotten forever !!!!!!! HALLELUJAH !

Sadly, some things, will be fatal ..... perhaps for multitudes.

SkyWriting said:

But that is you saying that in your own words, as usual.
Scripture says that God's law is now local government law.

Jesus taught that here:

John 19:11
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

Do you recall what happened next?
What if Jesus had run away and disobeyed the local law?
You are not thinking things through very deep.

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You dont get it. Yes we submit to government but we submit to God as well. God gave us his holy word to teach us. You have thrown out His word in favor of mans word, and you claim that He taught you to do this. I cant believe you have blinded yourself to all the commands of Christ and His apostles.

W2L said:

You dont get it. Yes we submit to government but we submit to God as well. God gave us his holy word to teach us. You have thrown out His word in favor of mans word, and you claim that He taught you to do this. I cant believe you have blinded yourself to all the commands of Christ and His apostles.

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And (I know very well you know)
when government or men tell us to disobey GOD, we obey GOD, even if they kill us. There is no fear of death.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

And (I know very well you know)
when government or men tell us to disobey GOD, we obey GOD, even if they kill us. There is no fear of death.

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unless we are like Peter and the rest of the disciples that were in fear of their lives after they took Jesus from the garden. However, we should grow as they did.

W2L said:

unless we are like Peter and the rest of the disciples that were in fear of their lives after they took Jesus from the garden. However, we should grow as they did.

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No need to be as they were -
that ENTIRELY CHANGED, some after the RESURRECTION, and even more after PENTECOST !

Being filled daily with righteousness , peace, and joy, as written of the Ekklesia,
and daily walking in union with Jesus, as written, of the Ekklesia,
might be very different from some people's experiences today,
but
it is what to seek (God's Kingdom, God's Way), what to pray for, and what to REJOICE IN in our experiential knowledge abiding in Jesus, ONE with HIM.

W2L said:

You dont get it. Yes we submit to government but we submit to God as well. God gave us his holy word to teach us. You have thrown out His word in favor of mans word, and you claim that He taught you to do this. I cant believe you have blinded yourself to all the commands of Christ and His apostles.

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I'm just going with what Jesus said, at His trial, before the crucifiction:
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

So the authority to crucify Jesus on the cross is handed over to local government by the Father and ratified by Jesus.

But Jesus has support for this radical teaching, just in case you think Jesus was insane at the time:

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3:1
1 Timothy 2:1-3
Psalm 22:28
Romans 13:7
Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Proverbs 21:1
Mark 3:24
Genesis 50:20
Psalm 75:7
1 Corinthians 14:40
Romans 8:28
Romans 2:15

Supporting Local law
Matthew 26:52-54
Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?”

SkyWriting said:

I'm just going with what Jesus said, at His trial, before the crucifiction:
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

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All that means is that Pilate would have no authority over Jesus at all, unless it had been given him from above.

It is written likewise that NO MAN, can receive ANYTHING unless it is granted to him from the FATHER in HEAVEN.

To make believe that that means man's government is what you have said it is, is entirely facetious and without warrant, opposed to God's Word in many places.

Notice that when someone in Scripture sinned, they were told to STOP SINNING, or they dropped dead. They were NOT told to think differently as in to stop thinking it was a sin. No, STOP SINNING.
Not , ever, stop thinking it is sin.

SkyWriting said:

I'm just going with what Jesus said, at His trial, before the crucifiction:
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

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What you are doing is taking His words out of context to prove an absurd notion. I hate to use such harsh language but thats what it is. You turn logic on its head when you ignore His many commands, and use His own words to throw out His own commands! Friend, you are very confused or you are just playing some kind of game.

LoveGodsWord said:

What I am surprised about here is that no one has answered the OP questions. Does no one really know the answer to these questions? There has been some close ones they all have not been answered. In know one knows I will post the scriptures shortly.

.............

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Scripture please)

God bless.

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I understand you don't like our answers. That's not our problem
but thanks for the opportunity to answer over and over.

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?
Grace is a gift from God. Love is the motive for offering the gift.

WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?
The written law plays no part in God's grace. The written code brings death to any that try to follow it, so God provided Grace through the blood of Jesus
to cover all our sins. The law reveals our need for forgiveness because
if we break even one law, we are guilty of breaking all the law.

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
The New Covenant of Grace is written in our hearts and the written law in scripture is eliminated.

Hebrews 9:15
Hebrews 8:13
Luke 22:20
Hebrews 8:7-8
Hebrews 8:6
2 Corinthians 3:6
1 Corinthians 11:25
Jeremiah 31:33
Romans 7:6

W2L said:

What you are doing is taking His words out of context to prove an absurd notion. I hate to use such harsh language but thats what it is. You turn logic on its head when you ignore His many commands, and use His own words to throw out His own commands! Friend, you are very confused or you are just playing some kind of game.

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I encourage you to respond as you see fit. However the moderators
insist you remain polite. I am rarely moved to report anyone.

The Old Testament is quoted 855 times in the New Testament with not one complaint about context noted. Likely becasue the original context was completely different.
Still I can provide it at your request, no problem:

The Soldiers Mock Jesus
…10So Pilate said to Him, “Do You refuse to speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You and authority to crucify You?” 11 Jesus answered, “You would have no authority over Me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed Me over to you is guilty of greater sin.” 12 From then on, Pilate tried to release Him, but the Jews kept shouting, “If you release this man, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who declares himself a king is defying Caesar.”

More context?
John 19 BSB

W2L said:

Friend, you are very confused or you are just playing some kind of game.

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Here is my game. I call it learning scripture:
Hebrews 9:15
Hebrews 8:13
Luke 22:20
Hebrews 8:7-8
Hebrews 8:6
2 Corinthians 3:6
1 Corinthians 11:25
Jeremiah 31:33
Romans 7:6

yeshuaslavejeff said:

All that means is that Pilate would have no authority over Jesus at all, unless it had been given him from above.
To make believe that that means man's government is what you have said it is, is entirely facetious and without warrant, opposed to God's Word in many places.

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I didn't come up with the idea that Gods law
is written on mans heart and that God's written
code is obsolete.

Or that the local government now takes precedence:

Hebrews 9:15
Hebrews 8:13
Luke 22:20
Hebrews 8:7-8
Hebrews 8:6
2 Corinthians 3:6
1 Corinthians 11:25
Jeremiah 31:33
Romans 7:6

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Your false interpretation, forbidden by Yahweh, your own words, as usual.

Scripture never equated carnal , earthly, worldly government law

with TORAH (God's Perfect Law), EVER, not ever.

Perverting His Word that much trying to accomplish more sin and to get approval for more sin, perverted sin, is sin.

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God has given local government precedence and authority.
Thanks be to Jesus, that's how He was crucified.
It couldn't have happened if God had not given local government the authority.
Jesus said a band of angels could easily have stopped Jesus arrest if
local government was not doing the will of the Father.
But local government does do the will of the Father.

LoveGodsWord said:

Hello my friend sadly none of those scriptures answer the questions in the OP. Did you want to try again?

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Scripture please)

God bless.

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Sure. Thanks. Happy to!

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?
Grace is a gift from God. Love is the motive for offering the gift.

WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?
The written law plays no part in God's grace. The written code brings death to any that try to follow it, so God provided Grace through the blood of Jesus
to cover all our sins. The law reveals our need for forgiveness because
if we break even one law, we are guilty of breaking all the law.

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
The New Covenant of Grace is written in our hearts and the written law in scripture is eliminated.

Hebrews 9:15
Hebrews 8:13
Luke 22:20
Hebrews 8:7-8
Hebrews 8:6
2 Corinthians 3:6
1 Corinthians 11:25
Jeremiah 31:33
Romans 7:6

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Notice that when someone in Scripture sinned, they were told to STOP SINNING, or they dropped dead. They were NOT told to think differently as in to stop thinking it was a sin. No, STOP SINNING. Not , ever, stop thinking it is sin.

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Stop sinning means revert to doing what you know in your heart , is the right thing to do is any particular circumstance. Only God can see ones motives.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him, it is sin.

Luke 16:15
So He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is prized among men is detestable before God.

Acts 1:24
And they prayed, "Lord, You know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two You have chosen

1 Kings 8:39
be heard by You from heaven, Your dwelling place. And may You forgive and act, and repay each man according to all his ways, since You know his heart--for You alone know the hearts of all men--

2 Chronicles 6:30
be heard by You from heaven, Your dwelling place. And may You forgive and repay each man according to all his ways, since You know his heart--for You alone know the hearts of men

Proverbs 15:11
Sheol and Abaddon lie open before the LORD--how much more the hearts of men!

Jeremiah 11:20
But, O LORD of Hosts, who judges righteously, who tests the heart and mind, let me see Your vengeance upon them, for I have committed my cause to You.

Jeremiah 17:10
I, the LORD, search the heart; I test the mind to reward a man according to his way, by what his deeds deserve.

W2L said:

You dont get it. Yes we submit to government but we submit to God as well. God gave us his holy word to teach us. You have thrown out His word in favor of mans word, and you claim that He taught you to do this. I cant believe you have blinded yourself to all the commands of Christ and His apostles.

Click to expand...

God judges the heart in love. The written code means death to all who try to follow it to be justified.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Your false interpretation, forbidden by Yahweh, your own words, as usual.Scripture never equated carnal , earthly, worldly government lawwith TORAH (God's Perfect Law), EVER, not ever. Perverting His Word that much trying to accomplish more sin and to get approval for more sin, perverted sin, is sin.

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Granted. The new Covenant is God's law written on our hearts.
And rather than obsolete written code, God can see direct into our
hearts to judge our actions. So we do what our hearts say is right
in the new Covenant. Post #317----GOD'S GRACE is without the written code now?

W2L said:

What you are doing is taking His words out of context to prove an absurd notion. I hate to use such harsh language but thats what it is. You turn logic on its head when you ignore His many commands, and use His own words to throw out His own commands! Friend, you are very confused or you are just playing some kind of game.

Click to expand...

I am accountable to God, and not forum posters. I never confuse the two.
God knows my heart.