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Featured CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Nope it doesn't. As shown in scriptures in posts # 472 and post # 473 linked the CONTEXT is the laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7. v16 is talking about the annual FEAST DAYS and the ceremonial sabbaths <PLURAL>.

    Your mixing up God's SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) which in the NEW COVENANT gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven by faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25; ROMANS 8:1-4.

    COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS <plural>

    As shown in the linked posts above in COLOSSIANS 2:14-17 PAUL is talking about the SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7, linked to FEAST DAYS. Paul is quoting from *EZEKIEL 45:17-25 from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures, not God's 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20.

    You mix up your Shadow laws with God's 10 Commandments. Besides God's 4th Commandment which is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH written on stone, there were "SPECIAL" annual ceremonial Sabbath connected to the annual Jewish festivals in the OLD COVENANT written in the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

    These ceremonial Sabbath were not God's 4th Commandment of the 10 Commandments but were connected to annual festivals and could fall on ANY DAY of the week depending on the yearly cycle (please read LEVITICUS 23;24-39).

    These ceremonial "SPECIAL" Sabbath were connected to..

    * Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24)
    * Annual Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32)
    * Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39)

    These "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

    NEED MORE SCRIPTURE?

    Hope this helps
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  2. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does -

    16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    First this is a list separated by comas.

    Secondly sabbaths is most likely used because of the frequency of the day.

    Thirdly this is the same list of holy days appearing in Lev 23 and else where in Scripture.
    No I'm not mixing anything.

    First mainly because we have a new covenant that doesn't include your or any shadow laws. Jesus offers to sabbath keeping Jews something they can't get from the periodic celebration of the weekly sabbath in Mat 11:28-30. The sabbath doesn't give this rest. This is declared by our Sovereign God the Father in that He said I swore in My wrath they would never enter My rest - Ps 95:11. Check out the Hebrew in this verse. It has nothing to do with a periodic rest.
    Yes Paul is talking about shadow laws of which the sabbath(s) is/are. Verse 16 and 17 are one sentence.
    No because there's no command for any holy days to be observed in the NT. Holy days aren't part of the NT - New Covenant.
    Like always you only quote the part you want and ignore the rest.

    2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

    3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

    It's very obvious the above is the sabbath. Not a single one of the other special holy days/celebrations occur every 7th day.
     
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  3. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    I fully accept all of Col 2. It's you that claims shadow laws are done away with.
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Nope. No it doesn't. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it disappear. If you disagree. please respond to all the scriptures that disagree with you in posts # 472 and post # 473 showing the within scripture and chapter CONTEXT which is the laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7. v16 is talking about the annual FEAST DAYS and the ceremonial sabbaths <PLURAL>.

    Rubbish. The commas used in COLOSSIANS 2:16 is not separate topics in the one sentance it is following the same collective thought and topic from v11-17 and that is the SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 not God's ETERNAL LAW that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is in the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4.

    In COLOSSIANS 2:16 Paul is quoting from the OLD testament scriptures as shown above in posts # 472 and post # 473. It is shown very plainly that v16 is talking about the ORDINANCES in FEAST days which included the ceremonial sabbaths <plural> connected to;
    Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24); Annual Day of Atonement; (Leviticus 23:32); Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39)

    COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS <plural>:

    PAUL'S within scriptures CONTEXT and use of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

    EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    These "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

    NEED MORE SCRIPTURE?

    Your mixing up God's SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) which in the NEW COVENANT gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven by faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25; ROMANS 8:1-4.

    That is not the case at all. The HEBREW WORD for SABBATH which the GREEK word comes from is שׁבּת; shabbâth from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

    The HEBREW word for SABBATH is EVERY SABBATH. Paul was a Hebrew *PHILIPPIANS 3:5 and spoke HEBREW *ACTS 21:40, If he mean't God's 4th Commandment he would have said SABBATH not sabbaths or sabbath days <plural>.

    The Greek translation of the HEBREW word for SABBATH is σάββατον; sabbaton; Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

    So the Greek Word has many meanings depending on the CONTEXT that it is being applied.
    So the CONTEXT of application can give the Greek word SABBATON a different meanings which can mean any one of the 5 Greek definitions of Sabbath (SABBATON) which can mean;

    1, The Sabbath
    2, A rest day from working
    3, The interval between two Sabbaths (e.g. any day between one Sabbath to another)
    4, Plural in all application of Sabbath day, week
    5, WEEK (Seven days)

    Depending on the CONTEXT and scripture application of the Greek word use.

    As shown above already the in COLOSSIANS 2:16 the CHAPTER CONTEXT of COLOSSIANS 2:11-16 is to the SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES v11-14 and the withing scripture CONTEXT of COLOSSIANS 2:16 is to the ORDINANCES in the FEAST days and ceremonial sabbaths <plural> connected to FEASTS not God's 4th Commandment. In COLOSSIANS 2:16 it is very clear that PAUL is referencing EZEKIEL 45:17-25 of the SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES from FEAST DAYS e.g.

    COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS <plural>:

    PAUL'S within scriptures CONTEXT and use of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

    EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    As shown earlier through the scriptures these "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

    NEED MORE SCRIPTURE?

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well that is not true. God's SABBATH has everything to do with a periodic rest. In GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:11 it says GOD RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY and then in EXODUS 20:10 God's WORD defines the SEVENTH DAY of the WEEK as God's SABBATH. RESTING is the verb and what it means to KEEP the SABBATH which according to God's WORD is the SEVENTH DAY of the week *EXODUS 20:11. GOD'S REST is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH because God RESTED on the SEVENTH DAY whick God's WORD defines as the SABBATH. God's REST is defining what to means to KEEP SABBATH (RESTED 7673. שָׁבַת shâbath). In GENESIS 2:1-3 the HEBREW Word God RESTED (verb) is what it means to KEEP the SABBATH (noun). God BLESSED and made the SEVENTH DAY of the week a HOLY DAY which is "TIME NOTED" to the SEVENTH DAY REST of the creation week.

    HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 is in reference to PSALMS 95-8-11. In HEBREWS 4 we read;

    HEBREWS 4:1-11
    [1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    [2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    [3], For we WHICH HAVE BELIEVED DO ENTER INTO REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they (UNBELIEVERS) shall enter into MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And GOD DID REST the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
    5,
    And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

    KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:1-5

    NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD [the GOSPEL] enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD do not enter into that rest. God's REST is linked to the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH according to HEBREWS 4:3-5 which is once again linked to GENESIS 2:1-3 and EXODUS 20:8-11 which is a periodic REST EVERY SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK *EXODUS 20:8-11.

    [6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of UNBELIEF:
    [7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    [8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    [9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.
    [10], For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

    KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:9

    Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.

    Indeed, that is why PAUL is talking about the SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 in COLOSSIANS 2. This chapter is not talking about God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is in the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4.

    As shown earlier through the scriptures. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.

    NEED MORE SCRIPTURE ON WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

    Hope this helps.
     
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Indeed the SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 are fulfilled in Christ as shown in the God's WORD in the previous posts in posts # 472; post # 473; post # 482 and post # 483 linked. Please feel free to respond to these posts and all the scriptures in them if you disagree? Your mixing up God's SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) which God's WORD says in the NEW COVENANT give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven by faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25; ROMANS 8:1-4. If we have no law then we have no KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and no need of a Saviour. If we have no Saviour we are lost because we still in your sins and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of Gods dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

    Can you see your error here brother?

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  7. Mollie1

    Mollie1 John 3:16 Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON

    [​IMG]
    This Thread
    From Controversial Christian Theology

    To Sabbath and The Law


    This is a More Fitting Forum
    for this subject


    MOD HAT OFF
     
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Indeed but this does not answer the question. What is grace for?
     
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Please stay on topic to the OP here. As posted earlier....

    As posted earlier If you wish to discuss the SABBATH I am happy to do so if you agree to address my posts and questions to you which you never have in the past.

    I am happy to address your questions in one of the SABBATH OP threads we have talked in if you like as long as you agree to answering my posts and addressing the content and questions asked of you.

    You can find my COLOSSIANS 2 thread here if you want to post in it. Please feel free to address this OP as it answers your questions from the scriptures in great details.

    This OP is a different one so would you like to contribute to the OP here and address the questions and discuss this topic? The questions being asked in this OP are...

    1. WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

    2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Scripture please)

    3. WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

    Do you have any scriptures to share here on the OP?

    Thanks.
     
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