Let's discuss Israel

Has the church replaced Israel?

  • Yes-- The church replaced Israel

    Votes: 14 36.8%
  • No--Israel is the apple of Gods' eye

    Votes: 21 55.3%
  • Undecided-- Don't Know

    Votes: 3 7.9%

  • Total voters
    38

eleos1954

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I'd just like to say the eschatology is difficult and there are a few different views but there isn't anywhere in scripture that says one must have their eschatology right in order to be accepted by God.

For now we see darkly, but then, face to face....:)

"says one must have their eschatology right in order to be accepted by God". The order is not in relation to acceptance and did not intend to imply that.
 
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Hank77

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"says one must have their eschatology right in order to be accepted by God". The order is not in relation to acceptance and did not intend to imply that.
Oh sorry, I didn't mean to say that you were saying it did. I just thought of it because of you having a different view than @Southernscotty, I also have a different view than he does, and maybe different than you as well. So I thought I just mention it.
 
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eleos1954

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I sure have never placed the OT over the new covenant in anyway. It is all about that wonderful grace that is lavished upon us.
The very basic bible truth is that there are different people and different times that God has dealt with us. Heb 1 explains this.
We must divide the Word or we cannot understand what is history, What is doctrine, Or what is prophetic. My view is what Moody bible institute and Dallas Theological Seminary endorses.
That doesn't really matter to me, But saying that I have studied this every which way and we have to have a way of studying the Word that tells us what period we are dealing with.
Well it is simple to see that we are indeed in the grace/church age and the apostle Paul is the apostle to the gentiles.
Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
and many more that tells of the transition from jew to gentile for this particular time period.

well .... no doubt you have and do study hard ... so have I and so do I ... so we'll have to agree to disagree on some things.

Everybody .... study hard ... decide for yourselves ;o)

God Bless.
 
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eleos1954

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Oh sorry, I didn't mean to say that you were saying it did. I just thought of it because of you having a different view than @Southernscotty, I also have a different view than he does, and maybe different than you as well. So I thought I just mention it.

That's fine .... difficult platform (texting) to discuss the awesome Word of God on ... lots of views to consider for sure. It's good though to have these conversations ... makes people dig into the Word of God and that is paramount for everybody. ;o)

God Bless.
 
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watchman 2

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Can you show me because it seems to me that the NOTE in Vine's is what you are referring to....."if this come to a hearing before the governor." in Matt.28:14

I could if I wasn't on a tablet. I have the text, do I'm copying it word for word. I'll give you the entire meaning.

The New Strongs Expanded.
189 akoe.
Word for word.
( 7b ) " The recieving of a message " Rom. 10:17, something more than the mere sense of " hearing " ; an interaction with the Word and a decision is always made.,[ Compare to a courtroom hearing ].

I have many more red flags that point to a backwards understanding of Rom. 10:17. If your interested ?
 
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Hank77

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I could if I wasn't on a tablet. I have the text, do I'm copying it word for word. I'll give you the entire meaning.

The New Strongs Expanded.
189 akoe.
Word for word.
( 7b ) " The recieving of a message " Rom. 10:17, something more than the mere sense of " hearing " ; an interaction with the Word and a decision is always made.,[ Compare to a courtroom hearing ].

I have many more red flags that point to a backwards understanding of Rom. 10:17. If your interested ?
I'll keep looking to see what I can find online. Thanks anyway.
 
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Hank77

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I could if I wasn't on a tablet. I have the text, do I'm copying it word for word. I'll give you the entire meaning.

The New Strongs Expanded.
189 akoe.
Word for word.
( 7b ) " The recieving of a message " Rom. 10:17, something more than the mere sense of " hearing " ; an interaction with the Word and a decision is always made.,[ Compare to a courtroom hearing ].

I have many more red flags that point to a backwards understanding of Rom. 10:17. If your interested ?
Well I agree with this above. Yes it's talking about hearing as in 'receiving the Gospel message and faith'. What did you think we thought it meant? Much ado over semantics, I think.

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
 
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watchman 2

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Well I agree with this above. Yes it's talking about hearing as in 'receiving the Gospel message and faith'. What did you think we thought it meant? Much ado over semantics, I think.

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Faith comes by a hearing by the word of God Jesus Christ.

We make our first act of Faith, Christ holds a hearing, like a courtroom hearing, makes a judgement on wether our first act of pisteuo or faithing, the surrendered life, is genuine or not.

If He deems it genuine, we move into the parable of the sower or testing ground where 3 of the 4 soils fail. They fail for the reasons stated in scripture, by a hearing held by the word of God Jesus Christ.

The one soil who moved forward moves into the grafting phase of the Salvation journey. By a hearing held by the word of God Jesus Christ, the surrendered life is sealed with the Spirit of Christ.

Each time a hearing is held by Christ, He is doing the accepting not us. He is doing the judging not us .we are the ones on trial, our Faith or surrendered life.

Each time we move through a hearing by Christ, He doesn't accually give us Faith. He gives us His presence that results in more Faith or a deeper surrendered life. He gives us His Spirit that results in a deeper surrendered life. he gives us His mind, the mind of Christ,that results in a deeper surrendered life or pisteuo.

I realize I'm probably the only one on the planet with this understanding, but it fits the correct understanding of the Greek word pisteuo and the Strongs backs it up.

It's never okay to put God or His word on trial.
 
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watchman 2

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Faith comes by a hearing by the word of God Jesus Christ.

We make our first act of Faith, Christ holds a hearing, like a courtroom hearing, makes a judgement on wether our first act of pisteuo or faithing, the surrendered life, is genuine or not.

If He deems it genuine, we move into the parable of the sower or testing ground where 3 of the 4 soils fail. They fail for the reasons stated in scripture, by a hearing held by the word of God Jesus Christ.

The one soil who moved forward moves into the grafting phase of the Salvation journey. By a hearing held by the word of God Jesus Christ, the surrendered life is sealed with the Spirit of Christ.

Each time a hearing is held by Christ, He is doing the accepting not us. He is doing the judging not us .we are the ones on trial, our Faith or surrendered life.

Each time we move through a hearing by Christ, He doesn't accually give us Faith. He gives us His presence that results in more Faith or a deeper surrendered life. He gives us His Spirit that results in a deeper surrendered life. he gives us His mind, the mind of Christ,that results in a deeper surrendered life or pisteuo.

I realize I'm probably the only one on the planet with this understanding, but it fits the correct understanding of the Greek word pisteuo and the Strongs backs it up.

It's never okay to put God or His word on trial.

This process could be fulfilled by anyone through out history ever born and chosen to be called to Christ by the Father. Not just to those who have access to hearing or reading God's Word.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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This process could be fulfilled by anyone through out history ever born and chosen to be called to Christ by the Father. Not just to those who have access to hearing or reading God's Word.
VERIFIED by SCRIPTURE: (confirming what you're saying) ?

"WHOEVER seeks ME (YAHWEH) WILL FIND ME"
 
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Tomm

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Ok I would like some opinions on this issue because I am in total and complete disagreement with this "theology"
I haven't spent any time really researching this until today, However a dear friend is stating his belief that Israel has been replaced by the church.
I can not comprehend this thinking as I read my bible and the many scriptures in it pointing to the fact that Israel is indeed the apple of God's eyes and He is the same yesterday, Today and tomorrow.
My bible [KJV Personally] Points to Israel being very special in God's eyes and in fact the Israelites were the ones given the very Oracles of God.

I thought it would be interesting how many here believe this replacement theology .

Perhaps we can see some differing views on this and tell us what scriptures supports your basis?
I have deliberately left out any scripture supporting and/or opposing this view so that you can use them yourself as to why you concur or oppose?

This is my very first poll so hopefully I have done this correctly
Thank You

Regardless of whether the answer is Yes or No, something is CLEAR.

Didn't someone say the Bible is the sole authority ?? If it is, why does someone have to start this poll to get people's opinions ???
Then someone will go to ask their pastors for opinions.
 
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Serving Zion

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Ok I would like some opinions on this issue because I am in total and complete disagreement with this "theology"
I haven't spent any time really researching this until today, However a dear friend is stating his belief that Israel has been replaced by the church.
I can not comprehend this thinking as I read my bible and the many scriptures in it pointing to the fact that Israel is indeed the apple of God's eyes and He is the same yesterday, Today and tomorrow.
My bible [KJV Personally] Points to Israel being very special in God's eyes and in fact the Israelites were the ones given the very Oracles of God.

I thought it would be interesting how many here believe this replacement theology .

Perhaps we can see some differing views on this and tell us what scriptures supports your basis?
I have deliberately left out any scripture supporting and/or opposing this view so that you can use them yourself as to why you concur or oppose?

This is my very first poll so hopefully I have done this correctly
Thank You
Hi Scotty, you know that faith is all about confidence .. and our confidence is in the certainty we have, when knowing that the promise of God applies to us.

This is how Gentiles have faith, through Jesus' work in going to the cross for Matthew 21:43, and Galatians 3:21 (Acts 10:15).

Now, Israel has faith in God's promises, not through the Revelation of Messiah, but through their knowledge that the promises apply to them - mostly due to their identification. So it produces a faith that is useful to God, and in some ways perhaps it is stronger than a Christian's faith, because of the victories in it's history.

But faith is not everything that God needs .. He actually needs us to have His love, to express His love, because that is what ignites the spirit to life .. and sure, it isn't a thing that belongs to one religion or another.. as the wind blows wherever it blows, and it ignites the spirit wherever it catches. So knowledge is a separate thing from spirit (though they are codependent).

Look then at why Israel dropped in God’s favour through the crucifixion: they failed to take part in the love of God. So, Romans 11:17 tells us that they were "broken off" the true vine - that is, the sporit of the life of God.. despite that they had identity and knowledge, belief and faith .. it counted for nothing in God’s sight, because the wrath of God burned against them so that they were driven to murder saints!

So God’s favour is based upon our righteousness - are we responding as He expects us to respond, in any given situation?

For that reason, the Jews slipped lower in righteousness than the Gentiles who repented at the good news! .. their "false step" made room for the Gentiles to become partakers in the promise.

Now, it doesn't make Israel suddenly not Israel, nor does it make Gentiles Israelites .. rather, the vine in Romans 11:16 is a faith, a promise and a way that belonged to Israel, and most specifically to The High Priest (Hebrews 7:12) .. which we know, Jesus has been blessed by Adonai to hold while His work is accomplished (Hebrews 7:23, Hebrews 1:13).

Now, in order for Israel to be partakers of the promise, either Jesus needs to lose His office or they need to receive His reign.

The problem, it seems, is that the promise applies in a context of a Jewish religion, which is Messianic, and that means that Messiah is holy .. but what the Jewish people see when they look at Christians, is not holy .. it is even easy enough to find Christians teaching that holiness is unattainable and therefore not important.. yet the Christian scriptures state that we are members of Messiah, therefore we should be reflecting His qualities. It is a catch-22, because the world can never be completed in Messianic purpose while Israel is exercising faith against Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12).

It's a crying shame, but it is 2,000 years proven that salvation cannot come through the Gentiles.. (John 4:22)
 
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Hank77

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It's a crying shame, but it is 2,000 years proven that salvation cannot come through the Gentiles.. (John 4:22)
Why a crying shame? Jesus isn't good enough? :scratch:

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
.....
Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Joh 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
 
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Serving Zion

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Why a crying shame? Jesus isn't good enough? :scratch:

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
.....
Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Joh 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
In a way, rather it is due to His goodness! (2 Peter 3:9).

It is, however, on account of Christians that misrepresent Him (Luke 11:47, 1 Corinthians 5:6).
 
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notreligus

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Gal 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ.

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
John 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.
John 5:47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?"

Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel

Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Isa 53:1 Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
Isa 53:2 For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people?
Isa 53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors.

The Jews believe that Isaiah 53 refers to Israel. Israel was looking for a political Messiah but rejected the true Messiah when He fulfilled this Scripture and came as the Suffering Servant.

Colossians 1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him

Jesus the Great High Priest
Heb 4:14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

The Earthly Holy Place
Heb 9:1 Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness.
Heb 9:2 For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table and the bread of the Presence. It is called the Holy Place.
Heb 9:3 Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place,
Heb 9:4 having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron's staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
Heb 9:5 Above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail.
Heb 9:6 These preparations having thus been made, the priests go regularly into the first section, performing their ritual duties,
Heb 9:7 but into the second only the high priest goes, and he but once a year, and not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the unintentional sins of the people.
Heb 9:8 By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the holy places is not yet opened as long as the first section is still standing
Heb 9:9 (which is symbolic for the present age). According to this arrangement, gifts and sacrifices are offered that cannot perfect the conscience of the worshiper,
Heb 9:10 but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.
Redemption Through the Blood of Christ
Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)
Heb 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
Heb 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Heb 9:16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.
Heb 9:17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.
Heb 9:18 Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
Heb 9:20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you."
Heb 9:21 And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship.
Heb 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
Heb 9:23 Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.
Heb 9:25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own,
Heb 9:26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
Heb 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.


There is no more Jew and Gentile, but One New Man in Christ.

The Bible is a Book of Redemption, the redemption and reconciliation of ALL of mankind. Christ did not die just for the Jew or just for the Gentile. Those who promote that there are two in Christ, with two separate salvations are false teachers.

Right now Jesus is the attorney for those who have put their faith in His finished work. His shed blood is and was the only sacrifice that God Almighty would accept as payment for mankind's sin to eliminate the emnity between Him and mankind. Before the foundation of the world God envisioned His church. His purpose has always been to have a relationship with His one people.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Eph 1:8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
Eph 1:9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
Eph 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Eph 1:12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Thanksgiving and Prayer
Eph 1:15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints,
Eph 1:16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers,
Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
Eph 1:18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might
Eph 1:20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
Eph 1:22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

Christ is found from the first passage of Scripture to the last passage of Scripture. There are nearly 100 references to salvation which would become available to all in Christ in Genesis alone.

Genesis 3:21 And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.

The above refers to the permanent sin covering that would become available by Christ's finished work. The ritual offerings of the priesthood were shadows of what would come and these offerings brought only temporary belief. See the Hebrews passages.

A remnant of Jews/Israel did believe and became part of the one new man in Christ. All who are saved will be same way, by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
Rom 9:24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'"
Rom 9:26 "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"
Rom 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
Rom 9:28 for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay."
Rom 9:29 And as Isaiah predicted, "If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah."
Israel's Unbelief
Rom 9:30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
Rom 9:31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
Rom 9:32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,
Rom 9:33 as it is written, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."
 
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notreligus

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Continued......

Rom 11:2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?
Rom 11:3 "Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life."
Rom 11:4 But what is God's reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal."
Rom 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
Rom 11:8 as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day."
Rom 11:9 And David says, "Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them;
Rom 11:10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs forever."
Gentiles Grafted In
Rom 11:11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.
Rom 11:12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
Rom 11:13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry
Rom 11:14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
Rom 11:19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
Rom 11:22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
Rom 11:27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
Rom 11:28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Rom 11:30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,
Rom 11:31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
Rom 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
Rom 11:34 "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?"
Rom 11:35 "Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?"
Rom 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

The Book of Romans is an admonishment to the Jews and Gentiles that neither group has a superior position in Christ but both are subject to salvation by faith in the obedience of Christ on the cross.
 
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Southernscotty

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Regardless of whether the answer is Yes or No, something is CLEAR.

Didn't someone say the Bible is the sole authority ?? If it is, why does someone have to start this poll to get people's opinions ???
Then someone will go to ask their pastors for opinions.
Well to put it simply, I was discussing this with someone else on CF and we decided to bring this to light to see how everyone responded.
That is the reason.
This has been very interesting to me to see the divide over this
 
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Hank77

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Well to put it simply, I was discussing this with someone else on CF and we decided to bring this to light to see how everyone responded.
That is the reason.
This has been very interesting to me to see the divide over this
I couldn't vote in the poll. There isn't a choice for the assembly of God's chosen people, beginning with the OT saints and continuing on right up to today.

Job 19:23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
Job 19:24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Ok I would like some opinions on this issue because I am in total and complete disagreement with this "theology"
I haven't spent any time really researching this until today, However a dear friend is stating his belief that Israel has been replaced by the church.
I can not comprehend this thinking as I read my bible and the many scriptures in it pointing to the fact that Israel is indeed the apple of God's eyes and He is the same yesterday, Today and tomorrow.
My bible [KJV Personally] Points to Israel being very special in God's eyes and in fact the Israelites were the ones given the very Oracles of God.

I thought it would be interesting how many here believe this replacement theology .

Perhaps we can see some differing views on this and tell us what scriptures supports your basis?
I have deliberately left out any scripture supporting and/or opposing this view so that you can use them yourself as to why you concur or oppose?

This is my very first poll so hopefully I have done this correctly
Thank You

Israel is not "replaced". Under the New Covenant all believing followers of "The Way" of Christ are Israel.

We are adopted sons, which are no different than natural sons, and all are Israel who are called by God whether adopted or natural.

There is no "national" Israel under the New Covanent.

Please note, the New Testament means New Covenant, it's a Latin Translation from the Greek translated to English which caused it to be said Testament but it means Covanent.

The entire new testament is a testament of the New Covanent that we are now under. And we are, as children of the living God, Israel in every single respect. It's not a replacement of anyone. We are quite literally, Israel.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Question: "What is replacement theology / supersessionism?"

Answer:
Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. Among the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel are the church has replaced Israel (replacement theology), the church is an expansion of Israel (covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. The prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are spiritualized or allegorized into promises of God’s blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2,000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1,900 years?

The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is distinct from Israel, and the terms church and Israel are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven at the rapture (Ephesians 1:9–11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17). The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings of the Mosaic Covenant were valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God’s program during these past 2,000 years of dispersion (see Romans 11).

Contrary to replacement theology, dispensationalism teaches that, after the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13–18), God will restore Israel as the primary focus of His plan. The first event at this time is the tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while Israel is prepared through the trials of the great tribulation for the second coming of the Messiah. Then, when Christ does return to the earth at the end of the tribulation, Israel will be ready to receive Him. The remnant of Israel who survive the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital. With Christ reigning as King, Israel will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King—Jesus Christ. The church will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years (Revelation 20:1–5).

Both the Old Testament and the New Testament support a premillennial/dispensational understanding of God’s plan for Israel. The strongest support for premillennialism is found in the clear teaching of Revelation 20:1–7, where it says six times that Christ’s kingdom will last 1,000 years. After the tribulation the Lord will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel, Christ will reign over the whole earth, and Israel will be the leader of the nations. The church will reign with Him for a literal thousand years. The church has not replaced Israel in God's plan. While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the church in this dispensation of grace, God has not forgotten Israel and will one day restore Israel to His intended role as the nation He has chosen (Romans 11).

No... that is written by dispensationalists who don't understand covenant theology.

The church isn't a replacement of Israel, but a continuation of Israel under a new covenant, Jeremiah 31:31, namely, the new covenant.
 
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