Let's discuss Israel

Has the church replaced Israel?

  • Yes-- The church replaced Israel

    Votes: 14 36.8%
  • No--Israel is the apple of Gods' eye

    Votes: 21 55.3%
  • Undecided-- Don't Know

    Votes: 3 7.9%

  • Total voters
    38

Southernscotty

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Ok I would like some opinions on this issue because I am in total and complete disagreement with this "theology"
I haven't spent any time really researching this until today, However a dear friend is stating his belief that Israel has been replaced by the church.
I can not comprehend this thinking as I read my bible and the many scriptures in it pointing to the fact that Israel is indeed the apple of God's eyes and He is the same yesterday, Today and tomorrow.
My bible [KJV Personally] Points to Israel being very special in God's eyes and in fact the Israelites were the ones given the very Oracles of God.

I thought it would be interesting how many here believe this replacement theology .

Perhaps we can see some differing views on this and tell us what scriptures supports your basis?
I have deliberately left out any scripture supporting and/or opposing this view so that you can use them yourself as to why you concur or oppose?

This is my very first poll so hopefully I have done this correctly
Thank You
 

yeshuaslavejeff

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Ok I would like some opinions on this issue because I am in total and complete disagreement with this "theology"
I haven't spent any time really researching this until today, However a dear friend is stating his belief that Israel has been replaced by the church.
I only got this far.

This kind of theology, that Israel was replaced by the church,
was proven false hundreds of years ago, and was never true.

No need to go farther , unless directed to do so by Yahweh or Jesus.
 
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brinny

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Israel has always been/is the "apple of God's eye".

Gentiles (like me) who come to Christ, are "grafted in" to the root. We do not "replace" anything.
 
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Southernscotty

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I struggle to believe that modern Israel and jews are the chosen people. Here's a video I am re watching:

Ok but why do you believe it? Is it because you are indoctrinated or do you in fact see it in the scripture that God has cast away Israel?
 
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mkgal1

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Israel has always been/is the "apple of God's eye".

Gentiles (like me) who come to Christ, are "grafted in" to the root. We do not "replace" anything.
Brinny probably articulated this the best way (which I agree with) - that it's not about "replacement". Think of where Jesus' ministry began and who the disciples were. We wouldn't even have Christianity if it weren't for the ancient Jews.

However - I do think that modern theology has the meaning of the word "Israel" a bit off. I don't believe it's a geographic place.....it's always been "His chosen people" and for a time it was the ancient Israelites....but all who believe are "God's people" (which is what I - along with Orthodox Christianity - believe the term "Israel" simply means). IOW "Israel" = "God's people" or "The people of God".

Isaiah 42:6 ~ "I, the LORD, have called you to demonstrate my righteousness. I will take you by the hand and guard you, and I will give you to my people, Israel, as a symbol of my covenant with them. And you will be a light to guide the nations.
 
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Dansiph

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Ok but why do you believe it? Is it because you are indoctrinated or do you in fact see it in the scripture that God has cast away Israel?
I honestly don't know. I don't see anything wrong with the scripture in the video and other scripture I've seen. It is possible I am indoctrinated though
 
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Southernscotty

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I honestly don't know. I don't see anything wrong with the scripture in the video and other scripture I've seen. It is possible I am indoctrinated though
Deut 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
 
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eleos1954

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Ok I would like some opinions on this issue because I am in total and complete disagreement with this "theology"
I haven't spent any time really researching this until today, However a dear friend is stating his belief that Israel has been replaced by the church.
I can not comprehend this thinking as I read my bible and the many scriptures in it pointing to the fact that Israel is indeed the apple of God's eyes and He is the same yesterday, Today and tomorrow.
My bible [KJV Personally] Points to Israel being very special in God's eyes and in fact the Israelites were the ones given the very Oracles of God.

I thought it would be interesting how many here believe this replacement theology .

Perhaps we can see some differing views on this and tell us what scriptures supports your basis?
I have deliberately left out any scripture supporting and/or opposing this view so that you can use them yourself as to why you concur or oppose?

This is my very first poll so hopefully I have done this correctly
Thank You

The poll .... none selected. Gods church is the body of believers (the called out ones) through Christ Jesus and transcends the globe and organized religions. The new Jerusalem will be from heaven and all in it will be His people.

Revelation 21 -

A New Heaven and a New Earth

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:

“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,

and He will live with them.

They will be His people,

and God Himself will be with them as their God.b

4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,c

and there will be no more death

or mourning or crying or pain,

for the former things have passed away.”

Amen and AMEN!

added after original post

Romans 9

6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.7 Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”a 8So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.
 
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Southernscotty

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The poll .... none selected. Gods church is the body of believers (the called out ones) through Christ Jesus and transcends the globe and organized religions. The new Jerusalem will be from heaven and all in it will be His people.

Revelation 21 -

A New Heaven and a New Earth

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:

“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,

and He will live with them.

They will be His people,

and God Himself will be with them as their God.b

4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,c

and there will be no more death

or mourning or crying or pain,

for the former things have passed away.”

Amen and AMEN!
Ok, This is after the 7 year tribulation and during the Millennium Kingdom. At that point yes I concur that it will be one body.
However for now, as gentiles we are under the grace covenant and the jews will still have the tribulation period of law to complete as per Matt 24 that says, Those who endure to the end will be saved.
 
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brinny

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I struggle to believe that modern Israel and jews are the chosen people. Here's a video I am re watching:


Are you speaking of "secular" Israel?
 
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Dave L

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Ok I would like some opinions on this issue because I am in total and complete disagreement with this "theology"
I haven't spent any time really researching this until today, However a dear friend is stating his belief that Israel has been replaced by the church.
I can not comprehend this thinking as I read my bible and the many scriptures in it pointing to the fact that Israel is indeed the apple of God's eyes and He is the same yesterday, Today and tomorrow.
My bible [KJV Personally] Points to Israel being very special in God's eyes and in fact the Israelites were the ones given the very Oracles of God.

I thought it would be interesting how many here believe this replacement theology .

Perhaps we can see some differing views on this and tell us what scriptures supports your basis?
I have deliberately left out any scripture supporting and/or opposing this view so that you can use them yourself as to why you concur or oppose?

This is my very first poll so hopefully I have done this correctly
Thank You
Jesus and the church IS Israel and God removed the unbelievers. But will graft any who accept Christ back into Israel. “And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.” (Romans 11:23) (KJV 1900)


.
 
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mkgal1

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Take a look at the story that's told (in the "big picture") from when God led the Israelites out of Egypt until this time (when Peter preached to the residents of Jerusalem):


Acts 2:14-42 New Living Translation (NLT)
Peter Preaches to the Crowd
14 Then Peter stepped forward with the eleven other apostles and shouted to the crowd, “Listen carefully, all of you, fellow Jews and residents of Jerusalem! Make no mistake about this. 15 These people are not drunk, as some of you are assuming. Nine o’clock in the morning is much too early for that. 16 No, what you see was predicted long ago by the prophet Joel:

17 ‘In the last days,’ God says,
‘I will pour out my Spirit upon all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Your young men will see visions,
and your old men will dream dreams.
18 In those days I will pour out my Spirit
even on my servants—men and women alike—
and they will prophesy.
19 And I will cause wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below—
blood and fire and clouds of smoke.
20 The sun will become dark,
and the moon will turn blood red
before that great and glorious day of the Lord arrives.
21 But everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
will be saved.’

22 “People of Israel, listen! God publicly endorsed Jesus the Nazarene by doing powerful miracles, wonders, and signs through him, as you well know. 23 But God knew what would happen, and his prearranged plan was carried out when Jesus was betrayed. With the help of lawless Gentiles, you nailed him to a cross and killed him. 24 But God released him from the horrors of death and raised him back to life, for death could not keep him in its grip.

41 Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church that day—about 3,000 in all.
 
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eleos1954

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Ok, This is after the 7 year tribulation and during the Millennium Kingdom. At that point yes I concur that it will be one body.
However for now, as gentiles we are under the grace covenant and the jews will still have the tribulation period of law to complete as per Matt 24 that says, Those who endure to the end will be saved.

We have different beliefs on that topic LOL but I do know we both love the Lord. ;o)

"Those who endure to the end will be saved" - absolutely agree on that
 
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mkgal1

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Ok, This is after the 7 year tribulation and during the Millennium Kingdom. At that point yes I concur that it will be one body.
However for now, as gentiles we are under the grace covenant and the jews will still have the tribulation period of law to complete as per Matt 24 that says, Those who endure to the end will be saved.
This is a new belief for me.....so I'm still a bit wobbly on it, but I have recently come to believe in the fulfilled covenant eschatology. IOW.....that Matthew 24 was speaking of the end of the ancient Jewish temple system (not the end of our physical earth).
 
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Southernscotty

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Take a look at the story that's told (in the "big picture") from when God led the Israelites out of Egypt until this time (when Peter preached to the residents of Jerusalem):


Acts 2:14-42 New Living Translation (NLT)
Peter Preaches to the Crowd
14 Then Peter stepped forward with the eleven other apostles and shouted to the crowd, “Listen carefully, all of you, fellow Jews and residents of Jerusalem! Make no mistake about this. 15 These people are not drunk, as some of you are assuming. Nine o’clock in the morning is much too early for that. 16 No, what you see was predicted long ago by the prophet Joel:

17 ‘In the last days,’ God says,
‘I will pour out my Spirit upon all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Your young men will see visions,
and your old men will dream dreams.
18 In those days I will pour out my Spirit
even on my servants—men and women alike—
and they will prophesy.
19 And I will cause wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below—
blood and fire and clouds of smoke.
20 The sun will become dark,
and the moon will turn blood red
before that great and glorious day of the Lord arrives.
21 But everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
will be saved.’

22 “People of Israel, listen! God publicly endorsed Jesus the Nazarene by doing powerful miracles, wonders, and signs through him, as you well know. 23 But God knew what would happen, and his prearranged plan was carried out when Jesus was betrayed. With the help of lawless Gentiles, you nailed him to a cross and killed him. 24 But God released him from the horrors of death and raised him back to life, for death could not keep him in its grip.

41 Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church that day—about 3,000 in all.
Yes, This is the beginning of the church however it isn't replacing the jewish nation.
 
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Southernscotty

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This is a new belief for me.....so I'm still a bit wobbly on it, but I have recently come to believe in the fulfilled covenant eschatology. IOW.....that Matthew 24 was speaking of the end of the ancient Jewish temple system (not the end of our physical earth).
Ok, I don't know anything about that but I understand that Jesus came only to the lost sheep of Israel and He was speaking to the jews about the end times in Matt 24
He was stating IMO when the 144 thousand jews would go through the tribulation.
 
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chuckpeterson

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Deut 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Ezekiel

1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, and prophesy against the land of Israel,

3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.

4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:

7 And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord GOD.

9 Son of man, prophesy, and say, Thus saith the LORD; Say, A sword, a sword is sharpened, and also furbished:

12 Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people, it shall be upon all the princes of Israel: terrors by reason of the sword shall be upon my people: smite therefore upon thy thigh.

13 Because it is a trial, and what if the sword contemn even the rod? it shall be no more, saith the Lord GOD.

17 I will also smite mine hands together, and I will cause my fury to rest: I the LORD have said it.

20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced.

24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.

25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end.

30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity.

31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.

32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."

Jewish population by country - Wikipedia
 
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mkgal1

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Yes, This is the beginning of the church however it isn't replacing the jewish nation.
I agree (somewhat).

It's never been about a nation - it's been about *people* of God.
 
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