WHAT DOES ROM 5:14 SAYING !!

Dan Perez · Dec 13, 2018

Hi to all and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam until Moses , even over the ones having not sinned after the likeness of the transgression of Adam , who is a pattern of the coming One !!

One question , is there a gospel preached and what is it called ??

dan p

Radagast · Dec 13, 2018

I don't understand your question.

ICONO'CLAST · Dec 13, 2018

Dan Perez said:
Hi to all and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam until Moses , even over the ones having not sinned after the likeness of the transgression of Adam , who is a pattern of the coming One !!

One question , is there a gospel preached and what is it called ??

dan p

It is speaking of Adams federal headship...we all sinned in him with the result of being conceived as dead sinners.
Yet Adam is a type of Him who was to come...namely Jesus.

In Adam all die, in Christ all live.

BaptistBibleBeliever · Dec 13, 2018

People have died ever since Adam's fall.

There was no "Gospel" until the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. No one was born again until then. In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit descended on certain individuals for service but would leave them if they sinned, in the New Testament the Holy Spirit is sealed to the believer and will never leave them.

ICONO'CLAST · Dec 13, 2018

The first gospel promise:Gen:3
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Gal3:
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

ewq1938 · Dec 13, 2018

Dan Perez said:
One question , is there a gospel preached and what is it called ??

dan p

It's called the Gospel.

ewq1938 · Dec 13, 2018

ICONO'CLAST said:
It is speaking of Adams federal headship...we all sinned in him with the result of being conceived as dead sinners.
Yet Adam is a type of Him who was to come...namely Jesus.

No, Moses was the type of him to come not Adam who was a disgraced sinner who died a spiritual death and brought death upon the unsaved.

ICONO'CLAST · Dec 13, 2018

ewq1938 said:
No, Moses was the type of him to come not Adam who was a disgraced sinner who died a spiritual death and brought death upon the unsaved.

verse 15 does not speak of Moses, but of Jesus.
Hodge comments that in regard to the "religious meaning" type was…

a designed pre-representation or counterpart — either historically, as the Passover was a type or significant commemoration of the passing over, by the destroying angel, of the houses of the Hebrews in Egypt; or prophetically, as the sacrifices of the Old Testament were types of the great sacrifice of the Lamb of God. A type, therefore, in the religious meaning of the word, is not a mere historical parallel or incidental resemblance between persons or events but a designed resemblance — the one being intended to prefigure or to commemorate the other.

It is in this sense that Adam was the type of Christ. The similarity between them was not accidental. It was predetermined and entered into the whole plan of God. As Adam was the head and representative of his race, whose destiny depended on his conduct, so Christ is the head and representative of his people. As the sin of the one was the reason for our condemnation, so the righteousness of the other is the reason for our justification. This relation between Adam and the Messiah was recognized by the Jews, who called their expected deliverer “the last Adam,” as Paul also calls him in 1 Corinthians 15:45. (Hodge, Charles: Commentary on Romans. Ages Classic Commentaries or Logos)
And so the primary likeness of Adam to Jesus was that each was the head of their offspring. Christ is the head of all believers, even as Adam is the head of the human race. Adam and Christ were similar in that each one's single act affected their offspring. The first Adam affects his posterity for death, while the Last Adam gives eternal life to His offspring (not universalism but only to those who believe in Christ). Both Adam and Christ are one with their people and thus represent two unities, which are further explained in the following verses. This section serves as transition from the apostle’s discussion of the transference of Adam’s sin (Ro 5:12-14a) to the crediting of Christ’s righteousness (Romans 5:15ff).

Wayne Barber summarizes Romans 5:14 stating that Paul is showing…

"the eternal effect of two people. One is a creation, the other is the Creator, Who became the God Man. That’s what we’ll see in the rest of chapter 5 as he says,

"Okay, here is what it means to be in Christ and here is what it means to be in Adam. This is what Adam did for you. This is what Christ has done for you."

Paul goes on in verse 14 and says Adam…

"is a type of Him who was to come."

What did Adam have that was in any way a likeness to Jesus? There are significant differences, but there is one likeness that stands out. Both of them were representative of the human race. Adam made a selfish decision and cast the world into sin. Jesus made a selfless decision, as Philippians 2 teaches us

"esteem others as highly as yourself, have this attitude in yourself which was also in Christ Jesus when He emptied Himself and thought it not robbery to be equal with God." (see notes Philippians 2:5-7)

Christ made a selfless decision to come to this earth and affect all humankind.

BaptistBibleBeliever · Dec 13, 2018

ICONO'CLAST said:
The first gospel promise:Gen3:15

Yes is was . . . and the cross is the only form of capital punishment that will bruise the heel, so even the cross was prophesied back in the Garden of Eden.

ewq1938 · Dec 13, 2018

ICONO'CLAST said:
verse 15 does not speak of Moses, but of Jesus.

It speaks of Moses and Jesus. Moses is the figure of him to come, Jesus.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Moses as well as God are saying the Messiah would be like Moses and then fast forward to the NT and we have Moses mentioned in the same sentence where *someone* had been a figure of Christ in his life.

Act_3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

ICONO'CLAST · Dec 13, 2018

ewq1938 said:
It speaks of Moses and Jesus. Moses is the figure of him to come, Jesus.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Moses as well as God are saying the Messiah would be like Moses and then fast forward to the NT and we have Moses mentioned in the same sentence where *someone* had been a figure of Christ in his life.

Act_3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

read post8

Moses is a type of Christ. but in romans5 it is speaking of Adam who sinned;

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

the...WHO...is Adam...not Moses...do you see it?

ewq1938 · Dec 13, 2018

ICONO'CLAST said:
read post8

Moses is a type of Christ. but in romans5 it is speaking of Adam who sinned;

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

the...WHO...is Adam...not Moses...do you see it?

Do you not see what Moses said?

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Exactly what Moses prophesied about.

ICONO'CLAST · Dec 13, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Do you not see what Moses said?

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Exactly what Moses prophesied about.

What Moses said in Deut18 is not in view here.
Moses is mentioned here as the law...not as the type.
Deut18:15 finds direct fulfillment quoted in Acts3:
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Dan Perez · Dec 14, 2018

ICONO'CLAST said:
It is speaking of Adams federal headship...we all sinned in him with the result of being conceived as dead sinners.
Yet Adam is a type of Him who was to come...namely Jesus.

In Adam all die, in Christ all live.

Hi and I believe that what is preached to Adam and handed down to Abel !!

#1 I believe that the GOSPEL preached to Adam is called FAITH and SACRIFICE !!

#2 , Read Heb 11:4 because Abel knew what to bring to Christ !!

dan p

St_Worm2 · Dec 14, 2018

Dan Perez said:
#1 I believe that the GOSPEL preached to Adam is called FAITH and SACRIFICE !!

Hi Dan, what is the "Gospel" of "faith and sacrifice" that you speak of .. specifically? For instance, what was life like for Adam and Abel/what were they required to do, if anything, to be saved this Gospel, and when did it go into effect in the life of Adam?

Thanks!

David
p.s. - I see that you are brand new around here, so WELCOME TO CF :wave:

Dan Perez · Dec 15, 2018

St_Worm2 said:
Hi Dan, what is the "Gospel" of "faith and sacrifice" that you speak of .. specifically? For instance, what was life like for Adam and Abel/what were they required to do, if anything, to be saved this Gospel, and when did it go into effect in the life of Adam?

Thanks!

David
p.s. - I see that you are brand new around here, so WELCOME TO CF

Hi and any one can call it the GOSPEL / EUANGELION of ATONEMENT , or a Gospel of Sacrifice or a GOSPEL of the shedding of BLOOD and maybe some one will come up with a beter explanation !!

So , that this is how people were saved from Adam to MOSES a blood sacrifice as written in Heb 9:22 !!

danp

DennisTate · Dec 17, 2018

Dan Perez said:
Hi to all and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam until Moses , even over the ones having not sinned after the likeness of the transgression of Adam , who is a pattern of the coming One !!

One question , is there a gospel preached and what is it called ??

dan p

Do you mean The Gospel of the Kingdom of G-d?

I read an interesting explanation for the first heaven, the second heaven and the third heaven.

I remember it is in here somewhere:

The Call by Pastor Rick Joyner?

Dan Perez · Dec 17, 2018

DennisTate said:
Do you mean The Gospel of the Kingdom of G-d?

I read an interesting explanation for the first heaven, the second heaven and the third heaven.

I remember it is in here somewhere:

The Call by Pastor Rick Joyner?

The Gospel of the Kingdom of God is not mentioned here at all , that I can see !!

dan p

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