Need advice

RaymondG · Nov 13, 2018

ChristopherinLA said:
Sometimes when my wife and I have arguments she brings up things that my pastor or my pastor's wife said about me to strengthen her argument. These things get under my skin more than the argument itself because the pastor or pastor's wife did not tell me these things directly. This issue has been going on for about a year. For example my wife said that the pastor said I am "rigid" or "militant" about my faith and the pastor's wife said I "take church too seriously". My wife tries to downplay these things because she works on the church staff and I am not privy to all the internal conversations and context in which any comments were made so she says I should not be so worked up. This issue really bothers me and yesterday after she told me what the pastor's wife said, I told her I am considering possibly finding a new church. I am really just hurt that these things are not being directed to me and also the way my wife is using it as ammo during arguments hurts although I do consider the feedback as possibly constructive. Am I being irrational? Should I just overlook this? Any advice is appreciated.

I have a question for you. What if your wife told you that the pastor and his wife said "positive" things about you? They talked about what a good husband and man of God you were.... Would this give you the opposite feelings? Would you start feeling happy and better about yourself? Would this type of backtalk now become acceptable?

If so, you are too affected by the words of men. You need to learn take back control of your heart and mind through Christ Jesus. We should not be, too much, swayed by the words and opinions of others.
We need to learn the take the good the same as we take the bad. Once we learn this....we will start to see neither good nor bad, even though this fruit tasted good for a while.

Once you start to take control of yourself, your wife will never mention the negative saying of others.....because she will see they have no affect. You will be happier knowing that no one else can make you anything( upset, angry, happy, sad), and no one was ever able to.

But this doesn't come easy.......it takes practice.....and where better to practice than right where you are? Once you are an overcomer, you can more on to higher heights......

ChristopherinLA · Nov 13, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
There are two things going on that are wrong. One, the pastor and his wife are talking badly about you behind your back. That is wrong. If they have a problem, they ought to come to you directly. Second, your wife is repeating this. Now my guess is that she is hurt that they say bad things about you to her. I would be if our pastor and/or his wife would say bad things about my husand to me.

Now that is what is wrong in principle. Pardon me if I evaluate what is said rather dryly without emotion. It does not mean I don't feel for you but feelings will not help us think about the matter.Here is my perception of what is actually said.

I find it really odd that a PASTOR and his wife would think anyone in their congregation is taking church too seriously since she gets her living from people taking church seriously. If people took church very lightly and came only now and again and gave only now and again, she would face some serious financial challenges and very personally. So why criticize the source of your income?

It seems to me that you must be taking Christ more seriously then that wife does and it sounds more like jealously. So take it as a compliment. You take Christ too seriously. Sounds different than you take "church" too seriously, doesn't it? Now as to the pastor's slander, what exactly does he want you not to believe or be militant about? I don't know you and cannot say. I mean are you insisting Jesus is coming in the next 10 years and anyone who does not think this is off? That I would admit is militant.

But are you insisting we obey the teachings of Christ in loving others as we love ourselves? Does you wife think your beliefs are militant? What in particular? Do they say? This only you can say. There are those who are militant about matters that arise not from scripture but from their own emotional need. But then if a believer insists on forgiving others or praying or readng the Bible and memorizing scripture, well, that is a part of Christianity and yes, one is not going be liberal on those points without losing something in their relationship with Christ.

What should you do? Well, you could talk to the pastor and his wife and tell them to stop telling your wife bad things about you. IT is making the marriage difficult, it is unchristlike (quote the scripture about going to the person when there is a problem), it is gossip, and this needs to stop today. She might not like it because they will know that she passed on the information. On the other hand, she does not have to hear from them negative things. So you could tell them that they are not to put your wife in the position of having to hear them slander her husband. Defend her against them. Frankly speaking, even the atheists I know do not criticize a spouse to the other spouse no matter what they think. WHen my friends have criticzed their own spouse to me I listen in silence and never agree. They love that man so I am not going to agree that he is (insert slander here.) That is not for me to say true or not true.

So I think you need to defend your wife against the pastor and his wife attacking her by slandering you. Protect her. It hurts her that they do this is my guess and she does not want to confront them so she wants you to change so they stop slandering you. This, of course, never works if the root is jealousy. They can say positive things to her about you but the slander needs to stop. She does not deserve to hear those things about the man she loves.

And truthfully speaking, I bet she hates hearing these things but is defenseless. So go defend her in the name of Christ.

Thank you for taking the time to analyze my issue. You had some really interesting and helpful perspectives. I never thought that it could be jealousy, or that my wife could be hurt from these comments and I should defend her. There could be a lot of truth in there. By the way I updated the post to add some context to the comments that were made for any clarification.

ChristopherinLA · Nov 13, 2018

devin553344 said:
I would take it as constructive criticism like you said. There are a lot of people that take church too seriously. It may be just a stage in your religious evolution like many others. We should remember that church is the collection of people worshiping God, and people are fallible but God is not. Therefore most churches fall short of representing the true God. And it's OK that people don't represent God perfectly, we must allow in our hearts for the imperfections of people when we go to church. This will make us better servants of God.

Marriage is ordained of God and God sees it as important from what I felt of the Holy Ghost when I was married. Good luck and God bless. I hope you can just get past that issue in your marriage. Marriage is more important than churches that put a wedge in that marriage. So the priority is marriage before that church. Put church second to your marriage and perhaps that would help?

Thanks. I will need to think about what you said about putting church second to my marriage and learn how to apply it. I think there is a lot of truth to that statement.

ChristopherinLA · Nov 13, 2018

RaymondG said:
I have a question for you. What if your wife told you that the pastor and his wife said "positive" things about you? They talked about what a good husband and man of God you were.... Would this give you the opposite feelings? Would you start feeling happy and better about yourself? Would this type of backtalk now become acceptable?

If so, you are too affected by the words of men. You need to learn take back control of your heart and mind through Christ Jesus. We should not be, too much, swayed by the words and opinions of others.
We need to learn the take the good the same as we take the bad. Once we learn this....we will start to see neither good nor bad, even though this fruit tasted good for a while.

Once you start to take control of yourself, your wife will never mention the negative saying of others.....because she will see they have no affect. You will be happier knowing that no one else can make you anything( upset, angry, happy, sad), and no one was ever able to.

But this doesn't come easy.......it takes practice.....and where better to practice than right where you are? Once you are an overcomer, you can more on to higher heights......

They have actually said more good things like that about me than negative. However, based on the way they act around me, distant..impersonal..etc., I do not know if they like me very much so it is hard to see it as genuine, and since the negative stuff is often brought up in argument with my wife, the not-so-good comments trigger stronger emotions. In either case, I am learning to love regardless and I think the feedback I am getting in this forum from people like you is very helpful. Thank you!

Dorothy Mae · Nov 13, 2018

ChristopherinLA said:
Here's the context of the things that were said by the pastor and his wife:

My wife had a meeting with the pastor where they were discussing the children's ministry program and he was asking her how she's doing spiritually, how marriage is going, i.e. normal pastoral stuff. My wife brought up explained an issue we had when I wanted her to pray with me more often but she resisted it because she wanted prayer to be more spontaneous and my way was too routine and structured. He then made the comment perhaps in empathy that I could be seen as "rigid" and "militant" with my faith.

I would never give that pastor any more particular information as to how the marriage is going. What he said was critical of you and left her defenseless and thinking ill of you and your praylife. A good counseler focus on what the person talking to them can do, not how "bad" the party is that they are complaining about. He, frankly speaking, agreed with her which means she feels justified in not praying with you. What kind of pastor is that? He supports the wife in not submitting to her spiritual head and agrees with her rebellion. So I advise her never to tell him anything beyond "fine" which means "fine as far as you are concerned." That man gives ungodly advise.

In regards to the other comment from the pastor's wife, they had a prophet prophesy over the church staff and their spouses. He said to me, among other things, that I could grow if I allowed "church to be fun". The next day they had a group debriefing (without me there), and she said that this prophecy makes a lot of sense for me because "I take church too seriously" .

The NT method for dealing with "prophesy" is to evaluate it in light of scripture or what is known to be true. This is what we are actually commanded to do. Now in light of scripture, that prophesy is not from the Lord. Point blank, not from God. It is fleshly and appeals to the desire for pleasure. Fun is pleasure in a form that the body enjoys. So my view is to reject that prophesy. That the end result was the church slandering you tells me that this produced no good fruit and clearly BAD fruit. So it is not from God. The fruit of the holy spirit is love, joy, peace, PATIENCE, meekness, GENTLENESS and so on. IT is not condemnation which is what came out of that prophet. Reject it all. No one who has been in the presence of God to some degree and no one in the Bible responded in any way like it was "fun." That is not the word that describes it. There is a false spirit going around that does appeal to the flesh that is fun. Run from it.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 13, 2018

ChristopherinLA said:
They have actually said more good things like that about me than negative. However, based on the way they act around me, distant..impersonal..etc., I do not know if they like me very much so it is hard to see it as genuine, and since the negative stuff is often brought up in argument with my wife, the not-so-good comments trigger stronger emotions. In either case, I am learning to love regardless and I think the feedback I am getting in this forum from people like you is very helpful. Thank you!

I still think you need to tell them to stop slandering you to your wife. She is defenseless and it is burdening your marriage and prayer life together and they are playing a role. If they have something negative to say, they need to exercise the Biblical way and talk to you directly. If that does not work, look for another church.

ChristopherinLA · Nov 13, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
I would never give that pastor any more particular information as to how the marriage is going. What he said was critical of you and left her defenseless and thinking ill of you and your praylife. A good counseler focus on what the person talking to them can do, not how "bad" the party is that they are complaining about. He, frankly speaking, agreed with her which means she feels justified in not praying with you. What kind of pastor is that? He supports the wife in not submitting to her spiritual head and agrees with her rebellion. So I advise her never to tell him anything beyond "fine" which means "fine as far as you are concerned." That man gives ungodly advise.
The NT method for dealing with "prophesy" is to evaluate it in light of scripture or what is known to be true. This is what we are actually commanded to do. Now in light of scripture, that prophesy is not from the Lord. Point blank, not from God. It is fleshly and appeals to the desire for pleasure. Fun is pleasure in a form that the body enjoys. So my view is to reject that prophesy. That the end result was the church slandering you tells me that this produced no good fruit and clearly BAD fruit. So it is not from God. The fruit of the holy spirit is love, joy, peace, PATIENCE, meekness, GENTLENESS and so on. IT is not condemnation which is what came out of that prophet. Reject it all. No one who has been in the presence of God to some degree and no one in the Bible responded in any way like it was "fun." That is not the word that describes it. There is a false spirit going around that does appeal to the flesh that is fun. Run from it.

I believe it is necessary for me to see your perspective since what you say are all real possibilities. I have a lot more understanding of the situation now since I posted in these forums and I thank you for your help in helping me gain more insight and wisdom. I will definitely be more vigilant going forward. Regarding the prophesy, you have have a good point and I will just ignore it for now. Thanks again!

ChristopherinLA · Nov 13, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
I still think you need to tell them to stop slandering you to your wife. She is defenseless and it is burdening your marriage and prayer life together and they are playing a role. If they have something negative to say, they need to exercise the Biblical way and talk to you directly. If that does not work, look for another church.

Thank you. However, I do not think she is 100% defenseless based on my conversations with her. I think she would be empowered more if she knows what to say next time. I told her that these comments are negatively impacting us and possibly even our son should they continue and he become aware of them. Therefore, I told her to ask, next time they bring something up about me, exactly what do they mean by their comments because she has not been able to give me any explanation of why they say these things. Also, I asked her to please dispute them/defend me whenever possible, and also not to communicate them to me during an argument. I will probably need to explain this to her again but we'll see.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 13, 2018

ChristopherinLA said:
Thank you. However, I do not think she is 100% defenseless based on my conversations with her. I think she would be empowered more if she knows what to say next time. I told her that these comments are negatively impacting us and possibly even our son should they continue and he become aware of them. Therefore, I told her to ask, next time they bring something up about me, exactly what do they mean by their comments because she has not been able to give me any explanation of why they say these things. Also, I asked her to please dispute them/defend me whenever possible, and also not to communicate them to me during an argument. I will probably need to explain this to her again but we'll see.

I understand but why don’t you tell them to stop criticizing you to her? It hurts her and the pastor himself is making your marriage difficult by his SIN. He needs to stop. And he needs to stop asking how the marriage is since his words are damaging it. She is likely hurt by them so YOU, dear brother need to defend her. They might as well know their words are repeated and known to you. That alone might help them stop. What they whisper in secret is proclaimed on the rooftop.

thesunisout · Nov 14, 2018

ChristopherinLA said:
I think you are referring to Matthew 15:18-20? "18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

How are the things that have been said about me defiling? After all, I'm not exactly agreeing or disagreeing with what they are saying, I'm just offended I guess because my wife is telling me about them during arguments and I don't really know why they are saying these things.

You need to have a one on one talk with your Pastor over these comments. I would ask him about it this Sunday.

RaymondG · Nov 14, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
I understand but why don’t you tell them to stop criticizing you to her? It hurts her and the pastor himself is making your marriage difficult by his SIN. He needs to stop. And he needs to stop asking how the marriage is since his words are damaging it. She is likely hurt by them so YOU, dear brother need to defend her. They might as well know their words are repeated and known to you. That alone might help them stop. What they whisper in secret is proclaimed on the rooftop.

The pastor is helping him take control of his heart and mind.......by helping him gauge how open he is to the effects of hearing words. Once the OPers has full control, the talking will stop on it's own.....even if it is because he stopped caring so much that it isnt noticed.

You cant change the world but you can change yourself.

RaymondG · Nov 14, 2018

thesunisout said:
You need to have a one on one talk with your Pastor over these comments. I would ask him about it this Sunday.

Would you recommend he stops his life to confront everyone that says a bad word about him? Wouldnt it be better for him to live his life and eliminate the effects of the bad words?

Dorothy Mae · Nov 14, 2018

RaymondG said:
The pastor is helping him take control of his heart and mind.......by helping him gauge how open he is to the effects of hearing words. Once the OPers has full control, the talking will stop on it's own.....even if it is because he stopped caring so much that it isnt noticed.

You cant change the world but you can change yourself.

I guess I do not understand how the pastor is helping the man by telling uncomplimentary things to his wife, in complete violation of scripture. I cannot judge how true it is but what it is completely untrue? Should the man be open to the effects of lies? What control is the man supposed to gain? Or so you mean the pastor is trying to gain control of the marriage? This is certainly one way to do so, by manipulating the wife and turning her against her husband. Not much of a pastor but it might work to achieven dishonorable ends.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 14, 2018

RaymondG said:
Would you recommend he stops his life to confront everyone that says a bad word about him? Wouldnt it be better for him to live his life and eliminate the effects of the bad words?

The pastor is not everyone. His wife is not everyone. Telling them to stop maligning him to his wife is not stopping his life. This, btw, is NOT DONE in our culture at all. Talking badly behind the back is acceptable. Saying it to the face is not. Very unbiblical.

RaymondG · Nov 14, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
I guess I do not understand how the pastor is helping the man by telling uncomplimentary things to his wife, in complete violation of scripture. I cannot judge how true it is but what it is completely untrue? Should the man be open to the effects of lies? What control is the man supposed to gain? Or so you mean the pastor is trying to gain control of the marriage? This is certainly one way to do so, by manipulating the wife and turning her against her husband. Not much of a pastor but it might work to achieven dishonorable ends.

The pastor is, unknowingly, helping him spiritually. The OP is able to work on this insides instead of just cleaning the outside of the tomb...... Once he gains control of the heart and mind, no one will be able to move him with words again. If he takes your suggestion, he will find relief now, but will encounter the same problem again the next time someone says something to his wife or him.......the cycle will continue to repeat until he changes Himself.

There is peace when you can control yourself.....Chaos when you allow the words of others to dictate how you feel and how you behave.......

RaymondG · Nov 14, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
The pastor is not everyone. His wife is not everyone. Telling them to stop maligning him to his wife is not stopping his life. This, btw, is NOT DONE in our culture at all. Talking badly behind the back is acceptable. Saying it to the face is not. Very unbiblical.

There is a peace that passes all understanding for those willing to seek it. Everything will be ok, as soon as you are ok with everything. Some can rejoice in persecution.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 14, 2018

RaymondG said:
There is a peace that passes all understanding for those willing to seek it. Everything will be ok, as soon as you are ok with everything. Some can rejoice in persecution.

You know, Jesus was not OK with everything. The above sounds rather Zen if you ask me. JEsus was very agitated by some behaviour, sometimes against him and sometimes against others. Did not seem to make a different to him. So I do not see the above as the peace that God gives.

The peace that God gives is based on doing his will. When a man is in the center of his will, he can have peace in the storm. If a man is not, then no peace is offered. God does not give a man peace when he is doing what God hates. That would be unloving.

The Christians throughout time had no peace when wrong was being done. Did not matter if was to them or others. Peace is not our goal. Godliness and love and truth and righteousness is.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 14, 2018

RaymondG said:
The pastor is, unknowingly, helping him spiritually. The OP is able to work on this insides instead of just cleaning the outside of the tomb...... Once he gains control of the heart and mind, no one will be able to move him with words again. If he takes your suggestion, he will find relief now, but will encounter the same problem again the next time someone says something to his wife or him.......the cycle will continue to repeat until he changes Himself.

There is peace when you can control yourself.....Chaos when you allow the words of others to dictate how you feel and how you behave.......

I totally disagree. Telling lies about a man to his wife is not helping the man grow spiritually. Might as well say the Devil visiting you and tempting you is helping you so lets be glad. The pastor is destroying the mans marriage. God does not look with favor on men who tear what God has joined asunder.

Now God can use all things to a believers benefit, that is true. But the man will have to stand up against those criticizing him to his wife. He needs to confrotn them. THen his wife will have a reason to tell them to stop doing so. She will likely be the target of the next criticism, she needs to know. Defend a person being bitten by dogs and you too will be bitten. But at least one knows which people are one's friends and who are the one's enemies or at least asking like enemies.

RaymondG · Nov 14, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
You know, Jesus was not OK with everything. The above sounds rather Zen if you ask me. JEsus was very agitated by some behaviour, sometimes against him and sometimes against others. Did not seem to make a different to him. So I do not see the above as the peace that God gives.

The peace that God gives is based on doing his will. When a man is in the center of his will, he can have peace in the storm. If a man is not, then no peace is offered. God does not give a man peace when he is doing what God hates. That would be unloving.

The Christians throughout time had no peace when wrong was being done. Did not matter if was to them or others. Peace is not our goal. Godliness and love and truth and righteousness is.

Since my words are Zen to you.....let me only give you the Words from the Bible:

"Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace."

"Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee."

"Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you."

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:"

RaymondG · Nov 14, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
I totally disagree. Telling lies about a man to his wife is not helping the man grow spiritually. Might as well say the Devil visiting you and tempting you is helping you so lets be glad. The pastor is destroying the mans marriage. God does not look with favor on men who tear what God has joined asunder.

Now God can use all things to a believers benefit, that is true. But the man will have to stand up against those criticizing him to his wife. He needs to confrotn them. THen his wife will have a reason to tell them to stop doing so. She will likely be the target of the next criticism, she needs to know. Defend a person being bitten by dogs and you too will be bitten. But at least one knows which people are one's friends and who are the one's enemies or at least asking like enemies.

You dwell too much on the actions of the evil doer.....Yet God says.

"Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity."

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