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swordsman1

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as iv pointed out to you before .. go read the testimony of "Surpise Sithole ".. you can google it .. then you can contact him personally and ask him if you wish . he has often experienced preaching to people who could not understand him and suddenly his speech changed and he fund himself speaking perfectly in their language .. .. the very thing you say ceased ..is still happening now in this day and age when that TYPE of the gift is required .

of course you then said .oh thats 2nd hand testimony and you dont believe it ...
so what to be done .. i direct you to that man himself so that it wil not be 2nd hand testimony .
personally i speak in tongues a number of differing kinds .
have had visions occur
have had devils cast out and seen it often in doing it
have seen people come up out of water baptism and instantly speak another tongue as they do
experienced many healings
have had words of knowledge telling me things about a person i'm witnessing to which i could not know
and many other things

but what is to be done in your case ?
....... we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.

Do you think I'm going to believe a fanciful unproven story from someone I've never of heard of in some dark corner of the internet? Show me some scientifically proven evidence that has been independently verified that somebody fluently spoke a language they never learned, rather than pentecostal hearsay. Then I might believe it. If was proven it would make front page news in scientific and academic journals around the world.

Professional linguists have been studying Pentecostal tongues for decades. Hundreds of samples of tongues have been analysed and all have proved to devoid of any syntax or linguistic structure. They have not found a single example of a genuine language being spoken. The most respected is by Dr. William Samarin of the University of Toronto who did a 10 year study of Pentecostal tongues. Here are some excerpts from his study:

"There is no mystery about glossolalia. Tape recorded samples are easy to obtain and to analyze. They always turn out to be the same things: strings of syllables made up of sounds taken from among all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but which nevertheless emerge as word-like or sentence-like units”

"The speaker controls the rhythm, volume, speed and inflection of his speech so that the sounds emerge as pseudo- language -- in the form of words and sentences. Glossolalia is language-like because the speaker unconsciously wants it to be language-like. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia fundamentally is not language.”

"All specimens of glossolalia that have ever been studied have produced no features that would even suggest that they reflect some kind of communicative system.”

"When the full apparatus of linguistic science comes to bear on glossolalia, this turns out to be only a facade of language; although at times a very good one indeed. For when we comprehend what language is, we must conclude that no glossa, no matter how well constructed, is a specimen of human language, because it is neither internally organized nor systematically related to the world man perceives."

"...a meaningless but phonologically structured human utterance believed by the speaker to be a real language but bearing no systematic resemblance to any natural language, living or dead."

“And it has already been established that no special power needs to take over a person's vocal organs; all of us are equipped with everything we need to produce glossolalia”

"Glossolalia is not a supernatural phenomenon....It is similar to many other kinds of speech humans produce in more or less normal circumstances, in more or less normal psychological states. In fact, anybody can produce glossolalia if he is uninhibited and if he discovers what the "trick" is"
 
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Hillsage

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I challenge any of you to tell me why, if the churches are in fact spirit lead, why do they all teach different doctrine? You want to boast in teachers and healers but where is the truth in all this? I have repeatedly asked this question and not one of you will answer.
OK one more before retiring tonight here.

You answered your own question and don't even realize it. You never capitalized Spirit in your question above. There is division because there is a 'religious spirit' which is assigned from the devil, to all of organized "Christianity" and he is doing well in most of those churches. All the while the true Spirit of truth' is simply being quenched. contrary to the command of scripture.

1TH 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit, 20 do not despise prophesying,


What do most of the "ungifted" believing churches of today despise-ingly believe has been done away with?


Never seen your question before, since I kind of just skip your posts anymore. So now you have an answer. Please do not reply, I'm just not interested in any more dialogue with you.

Again, nite all.
 
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Alithis

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Do you think I'm going to believe a fanciful unproven story from someone I've never of heard of in some dark corner of the internet? Show me some scientifically proven evidence that has been independently verified that somebody fluently spoke a language they never learned, rather than pentecostal hearsay. Then I might believe it. If was proven it would make front page news in scientific and academic journals around the world.
amazing .youve proven the point of yourself over and over -you are willing to take a "mans" word OVER Gods . and disbelieve God .
there is no blessing for placing your faith in man .

we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.
 
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swordsman1

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amazing .youve proven the point of yourself over and over -you are willing to take a "mans" word OVER Gods . and disbelieve God .
there is no blessing for placing your faith in man .

we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.

The unsubstantiated story of "Surpise Sithole " is not God's word.
 
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W2L

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OK one more before retiring tonight here.

You answered your own question and don't even realize it. You never capitalized Spirit in your question above. There is division because there is a 'religious spirit' which is assigned from the devil, to all of organized "Christianity" and he is doing well in most of those churches. All the while the true Spirit of truth' is simply being quenched. contrary to the command of scripture.

1TH 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit, 20 do not despise prophesying,


What do most of the "ungifted" believing churches of today despise-ingly believe has been done away with?


Never seen your question before, since I kind of just skip your posts anymore. So now you have an answer. Please do not reply, I'm just not interested in any more dialogue with you.

Again, nite all.
Thats ok, im use to being ignored. :)
 
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W2L

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I asked which church has the real apostles, or teachers or prophets. I said because they are all teaching different doctrines then they cant all be right. Someones teachers got it wrong. They cant all be right. No one answered this question. No one. Do i really care though? Nope. Do you care? Nope or you would have answered it. Anyway. thats all. :)
 
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Deborah D

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I asked which church has the real apostles, or teachers or prophets. I said because they are all teaching different doctrines then they cant all be right. Someones teachers got it wrong. They cant all be right. No one answered this question. No one. Do i really care though? Nope. Do you care? Nope or you would have answered it. Anyway. thats all. :)

Man, W2L, what you're saying is just not the truth! I told you I wrote a post about this, and you won't even bother to find my post. I have shown you that I care about you, that I'm praying for you. You haven't once offered prayer for me, have you?
 
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W2L

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Man, W2L, what you're saying is just not the truth! I told you I wrote a post about this, and you won't even bother to find my post. I have shown you that I care about you, that I'm praying for you. You haven't once offered prayer for me, have you?
:). If you're trying to help you would have provided that link or post number i asked for.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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NBB, post: 73382301, member: 329373"]:tutu::sigh: lol...of course he did:bow:[/QUOTE]

[It seems you don't believe me,]

Hello NBB,
The bible does not instruct me to believe you. We are instructed to believe the scripture. 2tim3:16-17.

Little girls say the virgin mary appeared to them...I do not believe them either. I am not told to believe them.

[ too bad, a lot of people didn't believe the disciples or Jesus, ]
I believe them as Jesus said to.

[God is supernatural,]
Yes He is. agreed.

[and christians shouldn't lie you know...]
Correct.... eph4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

[You also think this is funny somehow.]

There is no thumbs down emoji
 
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Alithis

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The unsubstantiated story of "Surpise Sithole " is not God's word.
neither is anything you've said either Gods word or in harmony with it and you have nothing in the way of testimony to add. you cannot testify of that which you have not known.

we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.
 
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My point is that when you read the scriptures, we know that it is 100 % certainty that God is speaking to us thru them, but no way to have same confidence that He is by any other method!
So what scriptures did Noah, Abraham, Joseph etc have to guide them? In contrast to you, they listened for his voice.
The devil can speak to his children, but you bizarrely insist that God the Father cannot speak to his children.

As a new born child of my earthly father, I quickly learned to recognise his voice above all other sounds around me.
Very soon, I also learned to discern meanings in the different sounds my father made when he spoke to me.

The same is true as a child of our heavenly Father.
In fact the only reason I ever became a Christian was because I heard God's voice calling me. (And my parents were not believers. I later led them to the Lord!)

The first time I heard God speak to me was as a child alone in my bedroom.
The second time I heard his voice was out in the street, There was an argument among some kids and God spoke some amazing spiritual revelations that I would later find to be straight out the bible.
Notably, it would be another ten years after these events before I acquire bible or hear the gospel from some evangelists. I realised that these evangelists were talking about the God I already knew!

The fact that you cannot recognise the voice of your heavenly father speaks more about your relationship with the Lord, than all your superior theology ever will.

Whatever happened to "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;"
And voice means voice, otherwise he would have used "scriptures" or "the Law and the prophets".

The prime duty of all believers is to learn to their Father's voice. Until we do that, all our bible knowledge is mere academic prowess, and no more value than the Pharisees' knowledge.
 
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Deborah D

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So what scriptures did Noah, Abraham, Joseph etc have to guide them? In contrast to you, they listened for his voice.
The devil can speak to his children, but you bizarrely insist that God the Father cannot speak to his children.

As a new born child of my earthly father, I quickly learned to recognise his voice above all other sounds around me.
Very soon, I also learned to discern meanings in the different sounds my father made when he spoke to me.

The same is true as a child of our heavenly Father.
In fact the only reason I ever became a Christian was because I heard God's voice calling me. (And my parents were not believers. I later led them to the Lord!)

The first time I heard God speak to me was as a child alone in my bedroom.
The second time I heard his voice was out in the street, There was an argument among some kids and God spoke some amazing spiritual revelations that I would later find to be straight out the bible.
Notably, it would be another ten years after these events before I acquire bible or hear the gospel from some evangelists. I realised that these evangelists were talking about the God I already knew!

The fact that you cannot recognise the voice of your heavenly father speaks more about your relationship with the Lord, than all your superior theology ever will.

Whatever happened to "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;"
And voice means voice, otherwise he would have used "scriptures" or "the Law and the prophets".

The prime duty of all believers is to learn to their Father's voice. Until we do that, all our bible knowledge is mere academic prowess, and no more value than the Pharisees' knowledge.


Thank you for sharing your testimony. Hopefully, no one will mock what you've shared!

Even though my late husband heard the audible voice of God one time, he generally didn't "hear" God speak to him like I've heard God speak to me since I became a Christian. It's always been a part of my experience as a Christian, and I can't imagine not hearing His voice. I NEED to hear Him. To me, not hearing His voice would be like being married and never hearing my husband speak to me.

After my husband died a few years ago, life became extremely difficult. It seemed that my family was thrown into a very dark place, but God talked me through it. I needed a job, and my family needed a place to live. The Holy Spirit led me to read a Christian novel that I had read before. A woman in the novel was offered a job and a place to live in a moment's time. When I read this, God told me that this is how it would be for me, and that's what I would tell my kids. It didn't happen right away, but sure enough, I was offered a job and a place to live in a moment's time.

How I got my job was a miracle. The Holy Spirit led a new acquaintance of mine to call my boss and tell him that my family was in need of a place to live because he owns property. She had put off contacting him, but on Christmas Eve three years ago the Holy Spirit practically yelled at her to call him. She broke into his phone call with someone trying to fill the position I took. Within a few days, I had a job and my family had a safe place to live.... I work for the head of a local ministry. The job I do is something I love, and I'm able to work at home and be here for my kids, who have really needed me.

Many years ago, my family was hiking in the woods. I was walking on a trail that split into two trails. The Holy Spirit told me to go to the right, but I wanted to go straight. After examining the trail I wanted to walk on and not seeing anything wrong with it, I went the way I wanted to go. When we got into the truck to go home, my husband pointed to a spot on my pants. A tick was on my pants where that leg had brushed a branch on the path I had chosen.

That was an important lesson for me in obeying God's voice and illustrated Proverbs 16:25 that says, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death." God was gracious to me, and I didn't get bitten, but I have since gotten a nasty tick bite that has caused physical problems that have been life threatening for some people, but I'm trusting Him to heal me.

There are many other instances of God speaking to me. It would take a book to tell them, and it wouldn't be enough room to tell them all.
 
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NBB

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NBB, post: 73382301, member: 329373"]:tutu::sigh: lol...of course he did:bow:

[It seems you don't believe me,]

Hello NBB,
The bible does not instruct me to believe you. We are instructed to believe the scripture. 2tim3:16-17.

Little girls say the virgin mary appeared to them...I do not believe them either. I am not told to believe them.

[ too bad, a lot of people didn't believe the disciples or Jesus, ]
I believe them as Jesus said to.

[God is supernatural,]
Yes He is. agreed.

[and christians shouldn't lie you know...]
Correct.... eph4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

[You also think this is funny somehow.]

There is no thumbs down emoji[/QUOTE]

But what i'm speaking is only the truth, i'm not making stuff up, so don't believe, thats ok, but things like this happen you find them strange and unbelievable or not. God can do miracles, signs and wonders on this day.
 
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NBB

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Do you think I'm going to believe a fanciful unproven story from someone I've never of heard of in some dark corner of the internet? Show me some scientifically proven evidence that has been independently verified that somebody fluently spoke a language they never learned, rather than pentecostal hearsay. Then I might believe it. If was proven it would make front page news in scientific and academic journals around the world.

Professional linguists have been studying Pentecostal tongues for decades. Hundreds of samples of tongues have been analysed and all have proved to devoid of any syntax or linguistic structure. They have not found a single example of a genuine language being spoken. The most respected is by Dr. William Samarin of the University of Toronto who did a 10 year study of Pentecostal tongues. Here are some excerpts from his study:

"There is no mystery about glossolalia. Tape recorded samples are easy to obtain and to analyze. They always turn out to be the same things: strings of syllables made up of sounds taken from among all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but which nevertheless emerge as word-like or sentence-like units”

"The speaker controls the rhythm, volume, speed and inflection of his speech so that the sounds emerge as pseudo- language -- in the form of words and sentences. Glossolalia is language-like because the speaker unconsciously wants it to be language-like. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia fundamentally is not language.”

"All specimens of glossolalia that have ever been studied have produced no features that would even suggest that they reflect some kind of communicative system.”

"When the full apparatus of linguistic science comes to bear on glossolalia, this turns out to be only a facade of language; although at times a very good one indeed. For when we comprehend what language is, we must conclude that no glossa, no matter how well constructed, is a specimen of human language, because it is neither internally organized nor systematically related to the world man perceives."

"...a meaningless but phonologically structured human utterance believed by the speaker to be a real language but bearing no systematic resemblance to any natural language, living or dead."

“And it has already been established that no special power needs to take over a person's vocal organs; all of us are equipped with everything we need to produce glossolalia”

"Glossolalia is not a supernatural phenomenon....It is similar to many other kinds of speech humans produce in more or less normal circumstances, in more or less normal psychological states. In fact, anybody can produce glossolalia if he is uninhibited and if he discovers what the "trick" is"

The world is against God, you are not going to find things like healings and other stuff in scientific places, they are against those kind of things. The best you can do is be checked by your doctor and he say that you are healed, but then that doesn't reach scientific front pages.
 
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swordsman1

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The world is against God, you are not going to find things like healings and other stuff in scientific places, they are against those kind of things. The best you can do is be checked by your doctor and he say that you are healed, but then that doesn't reach scientific front pages.

What have you to fear in having your miracles put under scrutiny by skeptics and unbelievers? Jesus wasn't afraid to have his miracles examined by people who oppose him, and as a result they knew he was from God. If today's miracles are genuine wouldn't it be a fantastic witness to an unbelieving world to have an amputee grow a limb in front of the skeptical scientists with their video cameras running and so make headline news worldwide. Or to have a professional linguist confirm that a working class tongue speaker was miraculously speaking a previously unknown dialect of ancient Babylonian.

Instead we have to rely on dubious unverified 2nd hand stories passed on from person to person which only gullible charismatics and pentecostals believe. How convincing is that? How convincing is it when the vast majority of people that go to faith healers are not healed of their conditions? How convincing is it when most of their 'healings' are of psychosomatic or unverifiable ailments such as back pain or depression? How convincing is it when they use common parlor tricks to pretend they are performing miracles?

Why do charismatics need to see miracles anyway? It seems to me it is due to a lack of faith, and they have to have some tangible supernatural sign to cement their belief. But seeking a sign is something that Jesus disapproved of (Mat 12:38-39). What is wrong with the faith that comes from "having confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible" and then simply trusting in Christ and God's word. If people want to see miracles they only have to open scripture to see the most amazing miracles ever performed and recorded in a form they know is 100% true.
 
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NBB

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What have you to fear in having your miracles put under scrutiny by skeptics and unbelievers? Jesus wasn't afraid to have his miracles examined by people who oppose him, and as a result they knew he was from God. If today's miracles are genuine wouldn't it be a fantastic witness to an unbelieving world to have an amputee grow a limb in front of the skeptical scientists with their video cameras running and so make headline news worldwide. Or to have a professional linguist confirm that a working class tongue speaker was miraculously speaking a previously unknown dialect of ancient Babylonian.

Instead we have to rely on dubious unverified 2nd hand stories passed on from person to person which only gullible charismatics and pentecostals believe. How convincing is that? How convincing is it when the vast majority of people that go to faith healers are not healed of their conditions? How convincing is it when most of their 'healings' are of psychosomatic or unverifiable ailments such as back pain or depression? How convincing is it when they use common parlor tricks to pretend they are performing miracles?

Why do charismatics need to see miracles anyway? It seems to me it is due to a lack of faith, and they have to have some tangible supernatural sign to cement their belief. But seeking a sign is something that Jesus disapproved of (Mat 12:38-39). What is wrong with the faith that comes from "having confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible" and then simply trusting in Christ and God's word. If people want to see miracles they only have to open scripture to see the most amazing miracles ever performed and recorded in a form they know is 100% true.

A good pentecostal church, which has good teaching and all is the best you can find. At least myself found the Holy spirit in one of them. So if the Holy spirit is there what can you say against it? you are going to be against Him?

You don't like miracles because our faith like that is not tested or something? that is bad thinking, faith only increases when we experience something from God. My mother speaks in tongues after she prays a lot and i believe is legit because she is a sincere christian not some clown that like to speak tongues alone in to the air to deceive herself, God has accompanied us, and manifested to me in several ways, and obviously one guy on the internet is not going to discredit that to me, what i myself experienced from God...

And miracles have happened, God just didn't stop because some people just say so, i knew from churches that only accept testimonies of people who brings a medical certificate from the doctor to proove they were healed.
If you are not close to what is happening in some churches, don't call them out only from the outside not knowing.
 
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I asked which church has the real apostles, or teachers or prophets. I said because they are all teaching different doctrines then they cant all be right. Someones teachers got it wrong. They cant all be right. No one answered this question. No one. Do i really care though? Nope. Do you care? Nope or you would have answered it. Anyway. thats all. :)

The Holy spirit is really close in some pentecostal churches, with the manifestations of the Holy spirit, i have first hand experience with miracles with some ministers, Happy now?
That is all i know because i never went to another church, but if the Holy spirit is present, something is being done right.
 
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