The question cessationists must answer.

[AbbaLove]

AbbaLove, I hope you did not take it to mean that
I think the three gifts have passed away already, they have not-- that which is perfect has not yet come.

"Apostleship" was not listed in the gifts which were subject to failing, ceasing, or passing away.

The only three gifts subject to that are tongues, prophecy and Word of Knowledge.

So is it your opinion that Cessationists believe those three Gifts of "tongues, prophecy and Word of Knowledge" have passed away; while they believe the other six are still active in faithful Believers (1 Corinthians 12:8-11) ???

To me, a Cessationist is one who claims that the CONDITION which Paul referred to as teleios, the perfect, complete, mature HAS ALREADY OCCURRED.

A Continuationist says No, it is still to come.

Wrong! By their very name a Continuationist says they already exist (operational) in faithful Believers. If they actually believed they are still to come they wouldn't be referred to as a "Continuationist", but rather something like an "Impendingist" or "STCist"
​

 

[Anto9us]

So is it your opinion that Cessationists believe those three Gifts of "tongues, prophecy and Word of Knowledge" have passed away; while they believe the other six are still active in faithful Believers (1 Corinthians 12:8-11) ???
Wrong! By their very name a Continuationist says they already exist (operational) in faithful Believers. If they actually believed they are still to come they wouldn't be referred to as a "Continuationist", but rather something like an "Impendingist" or "STCist"

It is my opinion that Cessationists believe the three gifts have ceased -- what they think about other gifts, I don't know -- some of them say APOSTLESHIP is a gift and it too has ceased.

"Wrong! By their very name a Continuationist says they already exist (operational) in faithful Believers. If they actually believed they are still to come they wouldn't be referred to as a "Continuationist", but rather something like an "Impendingist" or "STCist""

You misunderstand me -- I agree that Continuationists think that the gifts already exist and continue to this day -- the GIFTS are not 'still to come' -- what is 'still to come 'is THAT WHICH IS PERFECT

 

[Anto9us]

Act 2:39
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[W2L]

Act 2:39
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Yep the promise is to me. That's why i don't need a teacher.

1 John 2:27 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, [a]you abide in Him.

 

[Anto9us]

So people have been CALLED since the time the gifts allegedly ceased?

 

[W2L]

wut?

 

[Hillsage]

"... each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language."

SM said : It was the disciples who were speaking their languages, not a voice in their heads.

But the Bible does not say the disciples spoke foreign languages, it says the visitors HEARD THEM SPEAK in his own language. It is making the Bible say more than it actually does to say it had to be disciples SPEAKING IN those languages.

Brother, where in the bible is there such a thing as the 'gift of hearing' for unbelievers who aren't even saved let alone Spirit baptized? I only know of the 'gift of tongues' of men, from the Holy Spirit. So I actually agree with SM...if he's really saying that the language that the Holy Spirit was manifesting through the disciples, by the supernatural 'gift of tongues' was really from Him, and not coming from the spirit of the disciples.

And Acts chapter Two is not the only kind of Tongues in the New Testament, as much as Cessationists want to convince people that it is.

And this is exactly the point I ended the last paragraph with. A point which SM answers you by saying he knows of no such distinction and wants YOU to prove it. So you might just tell him to go back and re read my detailed explanation of two tongues, which he wanted to fight against. And then he comes here and tells you he's never even heard of such a PHONE.....or in his case, maybe I should say a PHONY, since that better describes the problem IMO.

 

[AbbaLove]

Yes, true! But in my mind they end of mocking God like the Pharisees who mocked Jesus.

What is even more serious is that they unknowingly may be blaspheming the Holy Spirit ...

Mark 3:28-30
28 Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”[a]—
30 because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”

[a] Other mss read is subject to eternal judgment​

 

[Anto9us]

OK Hillsage, so you want to strike out the possibility of the visitors HEARING in their own language and insist that the disciples SPOKE in their own languages, it's getting knit-picky to me.

And I have no intention of trying to 'prove' distinct types of tongues, so, yeah just "refer to Hillsage's definition of two tongues.

W2L, the outpouring was promised to "as many as the Lord will call" -- not to "only those believers in the age of the apostles".

 

[YeshuaFan]

​

So is it your opinion that Cessationists believe those three Gifts of "tongues, prophecy and Word of Knowledge" have passed away; while they believe the other six are still active in faithful Believers (1 Corinthians 12:8-11) ???

​

Wrong! By their very name a Continuationist says they already exist (operational) in faithful Believers. If they actually believed they are still to come they wouldn't be referred to as a "Continuationist", but rather something like an "Impendingist" or "STCist" ​

We believe that the lord still gives to His people spiritual gifts, just that none have those special sign gifts given to the Apostles!

 

[W2L]

W2L, the outpouring was promised to "as many as the Lord will call" -- not to "only those believers in the age of the apostles".

I know, i said im one of those who are called.

 

[YeshuaFan]

​

What is even more serious is that they unknowingly may be blaspheming the Holy Spirit ...

Mark 3:28-30
28 Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”[a]—
30 because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”

[a] Other mss read is subject to eternal judgment​

Only the lost can commit that sin, and those of us coming against WoF teachings are actually exercising discernment!

 

[W2L]

those of us coming against WoF teachings are actually exercising discernment!

I must agree.

 

[swordsman1]

​

What is even more serious is that they unknowingly may be blaspheming the Holy Spirit ...

Mark 3:28-30
28 Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”[a]—
30 because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”

[a] Other mss read is subject to eternal judgment​

I was wondering when the 'blaspheming the Spirit' card would be played. It's the oft used scare tactic to try and ward off cessationists.

Defending the Holy Spirit against the counterfeiting of His gifts, and other bogus practices done in His name, is not blaspheming Him. What is dishonoring to the Holy Spirit is attributing to Him things which are clearly not of him.

 

[Deborah D]

​

What is even more serious is that they unknowingly may be blaspheming the Holy Spirit ...

Mark 3:28-30
28 Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”[a]—
30 because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”

[a] Other mss read is subject to eternal judgment​

That’s a very sobering thought.

 

[W2L]

Seeing Kenneth Copeland's mansion and his private airport with the fastest jet money can buy, that was sobering.

 

[Deborah D]

And Peter probably preached his sermon in Hebrew.

But the Bible does not say that it was just the LOCALS who thought the disciples were drunk -- locals as well as visitors from at least fifteen areas were there.


Act 2:6
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Act 2:7
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

How did people know that the disciples were Galileans?
The maid by the fire accused Peter of being a disciple because his "speech gives him away", so it might be because of an accent, I don't know.

Peter preaches his sermon, obviously the sermon is in ONE LANGUAGE, maybe its Hebrew, I don't know. When he concludes his sermon:

Act 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Obviously the audience UNDERSTOOD Peter's sermon -- so either the "miracle of understand in your own language another language that is spoken" could still be in play here.

One other possibility to keep in mind here is that EVERYONE THERE --
Act 2:5
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
EVERYONE THERE might have been able to speak Hebrew !! They responded to Peter's sermon, right?

It could be that "hearing what was said in their own language" was for a sign to them, they might have been able to understand it if it was preached in Hebrew, but WHAT MORE IMPACT than for the guy from Crete to hear it in the language of Crete!

We DON'T KNOW the purposes of God behind the miraculous 'hearing in their own language' both the praises of God when they thought they were all drunk and the sermon by Peter, which may have been in Hebrew and they knew that as well.

What we know is -- the locals and visitors both heard
(1) the praises of God
AND
(2) the sermon by Peter and UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS SPOKEN,
(1) they heard DEFINITELY IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE; whether they also knew Hebrew or not

If I was from Crete and I was there that day, let's say I am a devout Jew and know Hebrew, what a greater impression on me to hear a Galilean speakin a Cretan language than simply to hear everything in Hebrew. Maybe this whole thing of "hearing in their own language" was a device to show God's POWER; not simply a device by which Parthians and Egyptians could have their attention captivated and subsequently understand Peter's sermon that followed.

And Acts chapter Two is not the only kind of Tongues in the New Testament, as much as Cessationists want to convince people that it is.

I'm with you! WE DON'T KNOW for sure how it was, but it was definitely a show of God's power. All of the spiritual gifts are. Like Paul said in 1 Cor, 2--

And my language and my message were not set forth in persuasive (enticing and plausible) words of wisdom, but they were in demonstration of the [Holy] Spirit and power [a proof by the Spirit and power of God, operating on me and stirring in the minds of my hearers the most holy emotions and thus persuading them], So that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men (human philosophy), but in the power of God. (AMPC)​

 

[Deborah D]

One of the 'time indicators' for when this PERFECT came and ceased three gifts -- besides the completion of NT Canon -- is death of the last apostle.

But things indeed were NOT Perfect after Peter Paul and John died, they warned of wolves coming in after their deaths...

Yes, and most people would not have access to the whole Bible (what we call the Bible today) for hundreds of years! God knew that's how it would be, of course.

 

[Deborah D]

Seeing Kenneth Copeland's mansion and his private airport with the fastest jet money can buy, that was sobering.

Keep judging!

 

[Deborah D]

I was a teaching Elder in the AOG before becoming a reformed Baptist, and cann assure you that many Charismatics are indeed saved, and want to experience the blessings of God, and are more scripture balanced than the WoF fridge is!

What possessed you to leave a denomination that teaches the truth about the spiritual gifts and go to a cess. denomination? I'm very familiar with reformed and Baptist theology, and I've seen quite a bit of unbelief in both. However, I'm not going to smear them as heretics, esp. without offering any proof. BTW, what is WOF fridge? I'm not familiar with this term.

Edit: Don't get me wrong. I've known plenty of born-again Christians in both. I don't mean to imply otherwise.