Abortions????

ItIsFinished! · Sep 24, 2018

What does God say about abortion?

Lost4words · Sep 25, 2018

RaymondG said:
I understand. Just thought you may of had scripture, since this is a religion site. Im fine with opinions, and scientific views as well.

Not everything is found in scripture.

Does scripture tell you how to boil an egg? How to treat a headache? Etc etc etc

Presbyterian Continuist · Sep 25, 2018

Lost4words said:
Not everything is found in scripture.

Does scripture tell you how to boil an egg? How to treat a headache? Etc etc etc

Correct. Although the Bible is not exhaustive in every detail, what it says about God and us is absolutely true.

God gave us a brain to use for commonsense thought and learning. Many religious people leave their brains at home when they go to church and get religion.

Silly Uncle Wayne · Sep 25, 2018

Isaiah Lovelace said:
I know this is going to open a can of worms, but I just had a thought. Christians who are against abortions, I'm curious as to why you would rather a child suffer in this life, rather than being sent to heaven before enduring any suffering? As far as I can remember children are granted automatic entry into heaven until they can be held accountable. So why deny a child a chance to have a loving home with your heavenly father instead of being raised in foster care, or worse? I don't get it.

If you are using that argument, why not murder every baby as it is born. Guaranteed way of getting to heaven. All it needs is one person to self sacrifice their chance of heaven in order to guarantee every child they murder a place in heaven.

That's the problem with taking a theology too far.

Nige55 · Sep 25, 2018

redleghunter said:
Highlight each paragraph or sentence you want to quote and the “reply” and “quote” option show. Then hit the quote portion and it adds to multiquote. Then when you are finished go to the bottom reply dialogue box and hit “insert quotes”

Thank you !

RaymondG · Sep 25, 2018

Lost4words said:
Not everything is found in scripture.

Does scripture tell you how to boil an egg? How to treat a headache? Etc etc etc

my apologies for replying to your post....

redleghunter · Sep 25, 2018

ItIsFinished! said:
What does God say about abortion?

Exodus 20:13

Nige55 · Sep 25, 2018

RaymondG said:
although I was reluctant to read anything from you after the emotional extremes you peppered in, I did finish your post.

The equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears if someone raises their voice. Let me be straight here - the notion that because people get emotional about a topic they should be not heard and / or considered flat out wrong or to have faulty judgement is dangerous nonsense.

If you desire your words to be heard and respect by all, you should try eliminating extremes, and emotional statements and respect the opinions of others just like your own. After this, i believe you will no longer need to use "they are non-believers" as a reason why people dont listen to you. Im sure their are many believers who also disagree with many of your interpretations of the bible as well.

The term 'emotional statements' is used to reject the weight that the remark carries, which in this case is seriously heavy weight.
It also is a casually used snub which dis-respects someone's strong opinion on a matter as being 'emotional'.
I'm not making emotional statements, I'm expressing a strong opinion which seems to unsettle you.

RaymondG said:
Yes they do... people who are brain dead also live with breath in their lungs. Yet there are some people who do not liken, "pulling the plug," to murdering the homeless, or killing children at the park. Even if you cannot make the differienciation...the opinion of those that can, should still be respected.

yes they do what ? Inhale and exhale air ? I hope you're not suggesting such a basic biological falsehood.

RaymondG said:
Are you able to use examples that arent extreme? Can you think of everyday examples or is the only case "If you agree with abortion, you might as well murder infants and the homeless?"

The parallels aren't extreme - they highlight the inconsistency in the 'choice' stance. As Shapiro mentions in his video posted earlier - if your reason for termination is purely financial as an example - then it must be applied across the board if it's genuinely the pure reason. What the extremities reveal is that those 'reasons' never stand up to scrutiny, and are never the real reason.

RaymondG said:
Yes this is a reasonable judgement and a respected one. However, you did say that I made a determination about the life of a child when I did not. Perhaps you could use different wording so that your motives arent questions verbally or mentally.

'different wording so that your motives arent questions verbally or mentally' - sorry, that makes no sense at all.

RaymondG said:
Here is where your exclamations fall apart. I believe if you feel so strongly about something.....strong enough to call one a sinner and murderer who commits this act....there should be no exceptions. Truth very seldom has exceptions or loopholes....

IT is never ok to murder....so why turn a blind eye in this case? how can I Esteem your opinion now, knowing that there are cases that you can turn your back on and say "let it be as they decide" How can you turn your back on this innocent child? the child who is still breathing in the womb, as you proclaimed, yet cannot speak for itself?

I'll be honest - I'm still on the fence on this one. A very hard call to make. One thing is certain though - that Doctors efforts and choices are to save and preserve life to the maximum - entirely different to the elective choice to end life based on inconvenience - which we all know is the overwhelming, absolute majority of cases (certainly in the west).

RaymondG said:
Killing would suffice.....the added adjectives is a attempt to sway the readers emotions. unless you are saying that you would be ok with it if it wasnt brutal.

So which is it? is it the brutality of it that bothers you, or is it the fact that a life is being snuffed out? If the latter, why add talks about whether or not it is brutal?

Ok we will go with that - take the word brutal out in order to focus on the concept of babies loss of life being the key issue. I'll rephrase - "killing unborn babies". There - makes it all the better ! Positively delightful now.

RaymondG said:
Because it would make sense to discuss the most broad cases of abortion, not the most narrow......if we are trying to change the minds of the many. we arent trying to give the impression that abortion should be avoided only during late terms.... so why not speak of it in general instead of referencing select cases, which just so happens to conjure the most emotion?

That's not what the OP is about though, is it ? We are answering the OP. If you want to discuss all eventualities - start your own thread ;-)
Also, they're not the most narrow, they're the absolute majority (elective I mean).

RaymondG · Sep 25, 2018

Nige55 said:
The term 'emotional statements' is used to reject the weight that the remark carries, which in this case is seriously heavy weight.
It also is a casually used snub which dis-respects someone's strong opinion on a matter as being 'emotional'.
I'm not making emotional statements, I'm expressing a strong opinion which seems to unsettle you.

yes they do what ? Inhale and exhale air ? I hope you're not suggesting such a basic biological falsehood.

The parallels aren't extreme - they highlight the inconsistency in the 'choice' stance. As Shapiro mentions in his video posted earlier - if your reason for termination is purely financial as an example - then it must be applied across the board if it's genuinely the pure reason. What the extremities reveal is that those 'reasons' never stand up to scrutiny, and are never the real reason.

'different wording so that your motives arent questions verbally or mentally' - sorry, that makes no sense at all.

I'll be honest - I'm still on the fence on this one. A very hard call to make. One thing is certain though - that Doctors efforts and choices are to save and preserve life to the maximum - entirely different to the elective choice to end life based on inconvenience - which we all know is the overwhelming, absolute majority of cases (certainly in the west).

Ok we will go with that - take the word brutal out in order to focus on the concept of babies loss of life being the key issue. I'll rephrase - "killing unborn babies". There - makes it all the better ! Positively delightful now.

That's not what the OP is about though, is it ? We are answering the OP. If you want to discuss all eventualities - start your own thread ;-)
Also, they're not the most narrow, they're the absolute majority (elective I mean).

Thanks for the conversation. I find no fault in anything that you have said and believe.

Nige55 · Sep 25, 2018

RaymondG said:
Thanks for the conversation. I find no fault in anything that you have said and believe.

Thanks also for the conversation

Fidelibus · Sep 25, 2018

Out of all the millions of murderous abortions that have been preformed, I often wonder how many of those people were sent by God to come up with a cure for Cancer, Parkinson Disease, Leukemia, ect.?

Fidelibus · Sep 25, 2018

What amazed me was, going on line and seeing the many Christian denominations in the United States that accept the legality of abortion, such as the Episcopal Church, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Presbyterian Church (USA), United Church of Christ, United Methodist Church, Unitarian Universalist Association, and the Mormon church to name a few.

If this is true, I just can't understand how these denominations can justify the murdering of an innoncent life? Would any posters that are members of these churches care to explain how and why?

Dorothy Mae · Sep 25, 2018

There’s also the desire in christians to oppose people making themselves into murderers. We care for the perpetrated of evil and what they do to themselves too.

Blade · Sep 25, 2018

"a child suffer in this life, rather than being sent to heaven" <---this is no where in the word of God. Its written we do NO harm. We do not kill unborn about to be born Babies. There is a reason man is BORN here. There is something about being here GOD wants ALL to know.

To agree with something evil you take part in it. Like it or not.. as God sees it. Abortion is wrong..that being said I am no ones God. They don't sin against me nor do they will they ever answer to me. Don't get stuck here. This SIN like any other sin you do leads to one thing.. death in this world. Its not some GREATER sin compared to lying with God. NO SIN enters heaven. Its not OK to simply lie yet NEVER have a abortion. Every SIN has as price. The world as we see it now reacts to all the SIN in the world.

Its wrong..it hurts yet.. we are no ones God. We have ALL power over the enemy. He has never given us ANY power over another. To show them.. Christ IN LOVE MERCY GRACE FORGIVENESS..Christ already died rose

So who are you to say who should live and die? Did you create that life? We would LOVE to say some man and woman did yet that is not correct. That LIFE that breath comes from GOD. He has yet to ask ANYONE what they think should happen...nor will He

Lost4words · Sep 25, 2018

RaymondG said:
my apologies for replying to your post....

Apologies accepted.

St. Helens · Sep 25, 2018

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF

eleos1954 · Sep 26, 2018

Isaiah Lovelace said:
I know this is going to open a can of worms, but I just had a thought. Christians who are against abortions, I'm curious as to why you would rather a child suffer in this life, rather than being sent to heaven before enduring any suffering? As far as I can remember children are granted automatic entry into heaven until they can be held accountable. So why deny a child a chance to have a loving home with your heavenly father instead of being raised in foster care, or worse? I don't get it.

It is unknown what the unborn childs life is going to be like ..... they never get a chance and they deserve a chance.

Kalevalatar · Sep 28, 2018

Isaiah Lovelace said:
Christians who are against abortions, I'm curious as to why you would rather a child suffer in this life, rather than being sent to heaven before enduring any suffering?

Those little children don't just happen. Children are conceived when a man and a woman copulate. I would rather that people took responsibilty of their sexual health and used proper contraception and protection before engaging in sexual intercourse not just against unwanted pregnancies but STDs that can lead to lifelong infections. Condoms, condoms, condoms! It's pure nonsense to try to make the debate about the poor little suffering children (as though that was the only possible outcome!) vs. happy little heaven-bound angels.

It's not. It's about personal responsibility. No contraception = no sex. You refrain from having sex then and there until you have taken care of the prevention and/or explore other ways to give and receive sexual pleasure that does not involve the method of how babies are made.

Abusing abortion as one's primary birth control method is not cool, has never been cool and will never be cool, happy little heaven-bound angels or not.

And yet, only a small % of abortions are due to nonconsensual sex, medical reasons or honest accidents, i.e. properly used contraception failures. The vast majority of women seeking abortion got "accidentally" pregnant because they did not use contraception at all or used it inconsistently, most typically popping pills if and when they happened to remember. Girl, if you are an irregular pill-popper = you are not covered and need to use a condom. The most typical reason given to the unuse of contraception? "Did not think was going to get pregnant just by having unprotected sex." I mean, come on. The year is 2018, not 1820. There is nothing "accidental" in getting pregnant following unprotected sex. That's the ages old way of making babies.

RaymondG · Sep 28, 2018

Kalevalatar said:
Those little children don't just happen. Children are conceived when a man and a woman copulate. I would rather that people took responsibilty of their sexual health and used proper contraception and protection before engaging in sexual intercourse not just against unwanted pregnancies but STDs that can lead to lifelong infections. Condoms, condoms, condoms! It's pure nonsense to try to make the debate about the poor little suffering children (as though that was the only possible outcome!) vs. happy little heaven-bound angels.

It's not. It's about personal responsibility. No contraception = no sex. You refrain from having sex then and there until you have taken care of the prevention and/or explore other ways to give and receive sexual pleasure that does not involve the method of how babies are made.

Abusing abortion as one's primary birth control method is not cool, has never been cool and will never be cool, happy little heaven-bound angels or not.

And yet, only a small % of abortions are due to nonconsensual sex, medical reasons or honest accidents, i.e. properly used contraception failures. The vast majority of women seeking abortion got "accidentally" pregnant because they did not use contraception at all or used it inconsistently, most typically popping pills if and when they happened to remember. Girl, if you are an irregular pill-popper = you are not covered and need to use a condom. The most typical reason given to the unuse of contraception? "Did not think was going to get pregnant just by having unprotected sex." I mean, come on. The year is 2018, not 1820. There is nothing "accidental" in getting pregnant following unprotected sex. That's the ages old way of making babies.

More than half of all Christians are a part of a church that believes all contraception to be a sin. Is it just to advocate one sin to prevent the need to commit another?

Kalevalatar · Sep 28, 2018

RaymondG said:
More than half of all Christians are a part of a church that believes all contraception to be a sin. Is it just to advocate one sin to prevent the need to commit another?

Do stats show that the majority of women who seek abortion due unprotected sex and unuse of contraception are Christians belonging to a church that believes all contraception to be a sin?

No. The abortion stats show that way too many men and women just want their insta gratification no matter what and are too lazy and irresponsible to bother with proper contraception and protection. After all, a pregnancy only last 9 months and a parent's legal responsibility of a child less than 20 years, but a sexually trasmitted disease can last a lifetime. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20

Abortions????

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