Abortions????

Dorothy Mae

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What do you mean the father has no rights?
If the woman wants to abort the child, he cannot stop her. It is his son or daughter she is going to murder and he can do nothing to stop her.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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"Spiritually" It is God who give and takes life.......to think that others can would be to dishonor God and lessen His Power........would it not?
Because men do not do the will of God does not change his power one bit.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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I first read your question as if it were promoting abortion and stating that in your opinion the father has no rights (anti-father). This morning I read it again and see your response could be against abortion and for the father (pro-father) who has had his rights taken away. If my answer seemed harsh I apologize but I would like to ask what you meant so that I can understand your response better if you don't mind.
I do not mind in the least and in fact, welcome it and am honored that you gave my answer some thought.

The simple answer is I am looking at the reality. The father has no rights over the life or death of the child in any country where a woman has the right to kill her unborn. The father cannot sue her in court to make her keep it. It is not a statment of whether he ought to have rights, it is a statement of the fact that he has none. Ought he to have? Yes. But no nation that legalizes abortion is going to grant any man the right to refuse an abortion for the woman carrying his child. No way.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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That is the only place it is considered so. Spiritually, the man who enters into a relationship and begets a baby and runs away is going to be held responsible. Galatians 6:7 says, “Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked."

Ephesians 5:25-33
"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones."

"A man reaps what he sows.” The man might think he is in the clear because of the law of the land but he is going to be held responsible for the baby, and for everything that changed in the life of the woman and her parents and siblings..., for the future of the child in all ways. If he sows deceit and cowardice in his relationship he will reap deceit and cowardice in his children. And if his children are killed in the womb when he ran away from his responsibility he will be accounted guilty.
When he stands before God he will be accountable for what he did or what he could have done and did not. I agree with you.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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How, on God's green earth, does a woman get pregnant without a man? Men keeping to themselves until marriage is the beginning. Men creating a home that is solid at Christ centered is two. Men providing for the family and insuring that children are born into a welcome home is three. According to biblical teaching men have everything to do with bringing life into this world including the rights and the control. Men teaching their sons to be men according to God are one of the best ways to eliminate abortion in this world.
You describe what should be. I describe what is. What should be is ideal. What is reality is what we need to deal with.
 
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RDKirk

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How, on God's green earth, does a woman get pregnant without a man? Men keeping to themselves until marriage is the beginning. Men creating a home that is solid at Christ centered is two. Men providing for the family and insuring that children are born into a welcome home is three. According to biblical teaching men have everything to do with bringing life into this world including the rights and the control. Men teaching their sons to be men according to God are one of the best ways to eliminate abortion in this world.

I gave you a "winner," but I'd point out that they're working real hard on non-sexual cloning.

I'd also point out that by saying "Men teaching their sons to be men according to God" is not the conservative rhetoric today.

According to current conservative rhetoric, boys grow up to be men just fine without any training--"train up a man in the way he is to go" is considered "leftist."
 
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Dorothy Mae

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I gave you a "winner," but I'd point out that they're working real hard on non-sexual cloning.

I'd also point out that by saying "Men teaching their sons to be men according to God" is not the conservative rhetoric today.

According to current conservative rhetoric, boys grow up to be men just fine without any training--"train up a man in the way he is to go" is considered "leftist."
Actually, girls grow up to be girls just fine without a man. Boys growing up without fathers have been shown to not learn to be men just fine. The list of the elements of responsible manhood they did not learn is long. If a man does not teach his son to be a man, his mother will not be able to make up the difference for obvious reasons.
 
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RDKirk

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Won't help the unborn child who is about to be aborted. Changes nothing as regards to his moral behaviour before God. Condoms do not make the whole matter without sin.

Most abortions are not the end of a pregnancy that was desired by the father, and that father could have prevented the pregnancy he himself didn't want by having used a condom.

As far as "sin" is concerned, this is something Christians need to understand properly:

The individual acts of unbelievers are irrelevant within their unbelief. An unbeliever is not hellbound because of his acts, he's hellbound because of his unbelief. If we put the sheriff's gun to his head and force him to act like a Christian, he's still hellbound.

It does not matter if an unbeliever practices homosexuality--or doesn't. It does not matter if an unbeliever practices abortion--or doesn't.

He is obeying his own master, and because he has a different master, it is still not pleasing to God even if we prevent him from obeying his own master (Romans 6-8).

Nor are we doing anything pleasing to God by putting the sheriff's gun to the unbeliever's head.

It is not relevant to anyone's salvation to force an unbeliever to act like a Christian.

Not even to the baby's.
 
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RDKirk

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Actually, girls grow up to be girls just fine without a man. Boys growing up without fathers have been shown to not learn to be men just fine. The list of the elements of responsible manhood they did not learn is long. If a man does not teach his son to be a man, his mother will not be able to make up the difference for obvious reasons.

I don't know if you were exercising Poe's Law or not.
 
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RDKirk

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No, I was simply pointing out the truth.

Well, I would disagree that girls grow up "just fine" without a father.

Children don't inculcate what they're told, they inculcate what they're shown.

Just as a boy doesn't truly inculcate what it is to be a husband and father without it being shown to him, a girl doesn't really inculcate how to behave as a wife without it being shown to her.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Most abortions are not the end of a pregnancy that was desired by the father, and that father could have prevented the pregnancy he himself didn't want by having used a condom.
I know young men who grieved that their girlfriend aborted the child. How many males did not consult with to come up with this "most" idea? And uh, the woman committed just as much sin as the father, however, SHE, not he, added to it by murder. So she bears the greater guilt.
As far as "sin" is concerned, this is something Christians need to understand properly:

The individual acts of unbelievers are irrelevant within their unbelief. An unbeliever is not hellbound because of his acts, he's hellbound because of his unbelief. If we put the sheriff's gun to his head and force him to act like a Christian, he's still hellbound.
I notice you cannot quote any bible verse. I, however, can tell you right out of the Bible that the books will be opened on judgement Day and each man will be judged based on the deeds done in the body. That is what it says. Would you like the scripture for that?

Second, the whole of society as well as God does not believe the above position that you wrote. It matters a lot how we treat others. The guy who steals a pencil is not the same in the eyes of man or God as the man who steals a baby girl.
It does not matter if an unbeliever practices homosexuality--or doesn't. It does not matter if an unbeliever practices abortion--or doesn't.
It matters a great deal to God. It matters a lot to other people as well. Jesus never taught that unbelievers can do whatever evil they want because it does not matter. It matters. He actually said whoever gives one of the little ones a cup of water will not lose his reward. He did not say it does not matter if an unbeliever sell that kid into slavery. Hope you do not teach this theology to others.
He is obeying his own master, and because he has a different master, it is still not pleasing to God even if we prevent him from obeying his own master (Romans 6-8).
IF he gives a cup of cold water to a little one he will not lose his reward according to Jesus. I am pretty such this teaching of yours is not at all pleasing to God. Not pleasing to the victims of those who hear and live the above either.
Nor are we doing anything pleasing to God by putting the sheriff's gun to the unbeliever's head.
huh??
It is not relevant to anyone's salvation to force an unbeliever to act like a Christian.

Not even to the baby's.
The babies who are not aborted but allowed to live are grateful even if you think it makes no difference at all. Made a different to them.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Well, I would disagree that girls grow up "just fine" without a father.
So boys do fine without a man showing them how to be a man but girls do not do fine? Really? This is new. Read enough about boys and fatherless homes but never read that they do fine and girls do not.
Children don't inculcate what they're told, they inculcate what they're shown.
So, uh, why do boys not need a man to show them how to be a man?
Just as a boy doesn't truly inculcate what it is to be a husband and father without it being shown to him, a girl doesn't really inculcate how to behave as a wife without it being shown to her.
So you changing your postion now?
 
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RDKirk

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So boys do fine without a man showing them how to be a man but girls do not do fine? Really? This is new. Read enough about boys and fatherless homes but never read that they do fine and girls do not.
So, uh, why do boys not need a man to show them how to be a man?
So you changing your postion now?

You're just talking screwy, and have been for the last several posts to me.

All your posts to me are screwy.

You've never written a post to me that hasn't been screwy.
 
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marineimaging

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I do not mind in the least and in fact, welcome it and am honored that you gave my answer some thought.

The simple answer is I am looking at the reality. The father has no rights over the life or death of the child in any country where a woman has the right to kill her unborn. The father cannot sue her in court to make her keep it. It is not a statment of whether he ought to have rights, it is a statement of the fact that he has none. Ought he to have? Yes. But no nation that legalizes abortion is going to grant any man the right to refuse an abortion for the woman carrying his child. No way.
And because of that (and, you are right) it becomes the mans responsibility to insure that he does not contribute to bringing a child into this world knowing that he does not have right to take care of his own child. The 60's was a period of sexual freedom and the 70's was a horror of a time trying to pay for that behavior by denying the sanctity of life and the Biblical descriptions of life according to God. Calling the beginnings of life simple tissue could only be done by repeating flagrant, irresponsible, blatant lies against Biblical teaching. If PPH's is all about women's healthcare then take their federal money away and make it a non-profit organization under the watch of the Salvation Army. See how quickly it folds. The relationships between a man and a woman results in a new creation with a unique DNA that has always been and will always be a human being and taking that child from the womb is about money. Plain and simple.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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And because of that (and, you are right) it becomes the mans responsibility to insure that he does not contribute to bringing a child into this world knowing that he does not have right to take care of his own child. The 60's was a period of sexual freedom and the 70's was a horror of a time trying to pay for that behavior by denying the sanctity of life and the Biblical descriptions of life according to God. Calling the beginnings of life simple tissue could only be done by repeating flagrant, irresponsible, blatant lies against Biblical teaching. If PPH's is all about women's healthcare then take their federal money away and make it a non-profit organization under the watch of the Salvation Army. See how quickly it folds. The relationships between a man and a woman results in a new creation with a unique DNA that has always been and will always be a human being and taking that child from the womb is about money. Plain and simple.
Its extremely unrealistic to expect no male to make love to a woman until he considers if he is ready to be responsible for the child that might be the result. Not saying it’s a bad thing, just being realistic. The males would laugh at such an idea. One needs to be realistic of one wants change. Even the Bible doesn’t require this. It requires the males to marry the woman solving both problems.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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You're just talking screwy, and have been for the last several posts to me.

All your posts to me are screwy.

You've never written a post to me that hasn't been screwy.
When you lose an argument you insult the poster. This is what you tend to do. Tells anyone something about you.
 
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marineimaging

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Its extremely unrealistic to expect no male to make love to a woman until he considers if he is ready to be responsible for the child that might be the result. Not saying it’s a bad thing, just being realistic. The males would laugh at such an idea. One needs to be realistic of one wants change. Even the Bible doesn’t require this. It requires the males to marry the woman solving both problems.
What about men being responsible for abortion? We are living in a world where we have given ourselves over to lust, greed, false politicians, naysayers..., we can find them all in the Bible. Realistically we old men need to return to being responsible for what we do and we need to teach our young men that they are responsible as well.
No child came into this world without a man and way too many think they can walk away from their responsibilities without repercussions. Too many young men are being taught they are animals with no control over their biological functions. Too many old men tell young men that if they make a girl with child they will have them for life. These same old men tell these young, deluded men that the more babies they make the more girlfriends they will have to go from home to home and will always have some place to stay.
It might be unrealistic to expect that all men can actually keep themselves chaste, but it is not unrealistic to teach them that they (all of us) are responsible for what we do and also, to live that level of responsibility out in our behavior and our lives.
If we want to change behavior we have to live it out and we have to be willing to do it ourselves. But one also has to begin teaching it and it must start somewhere. Realistic doesn't mean submissive just to avoid being laughed at. Jesus was laughed at and hung for all to see..., that didn't make it just nor right nor should he have gone back and diluted his message as God on earth. Men are responsible first and foremost.
 
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