I've lost my passion to witness/pray since becoming a Calvinist

I've lost my passion to witness/pray since becoming a Calvinist

JenniferLeigh said:

I'm seeking help from Calvinists in particular who can help me understand my loss of passion in evangelism since becoming a Calvinist, not by persuasion, but by studying the Word. I've also lost my passion in prayer.

I know I need to do both things because the bible says so, but I no longer have that fire shut up in my bones because I know God is sovereign and all who are called will come to Him. Please help!

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It says "Christian Seeker" under your user name. Yet you say that you are a Calvinist? (Per the title of this thread).

It's a bit confusing.

Although you will get responses from Calvinists here this is their official forum https://www.christianforums.com/forums/semper-reformanda.366/

JenniferLeigh said:

I'm seeking help from Calvinists in particular who can help me understand my loss of passion in evangelism since becoming a Calvinist, not by persuasion, but by studying the Word. I've also lost my passion in prayer.

I know I need to do both things because the bible says so, but I no longer have that fire shut up in my bones because I know God is sovereign and all who are called will come to Him. Please help!

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Hi Jennifer, have you talked with your pastor about this problem, or is this what your local church is actually teaching you If it is (and sadly, it does happen), then you are most likely part of a Hyper-Calvinist congregation, which is a faith that is "Calvinist" in name only.

Calvinism teaches that, "faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" .. Romans 10:17, and that (aside from those who have already come to saving faith in Christ) we cannot know who the elect are on this side of the grave. So, since we do not know who the elect are (before they've come to faith), and since we also know that the elect cannot come to faith apart from the words of the Gospel (spoken by those who possess "beautiful feet" .. Romans 10:13-15), then perhaps it's time to forget about finding your "passion" for the lost again (for the time being anyway) and simply choose to be obedient to Him until you do .. Mark 16:15.

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - here is my favorite Christian quote as a bit of encouragment for you

JenniferLeigh said:

I'm seeking help from Calvinists in particular who can help me understand my loss of passion in evangelism since becoming a Calvinist, not by persuasion, but by studying the Word. I've also lost my passion in prayer.

I know I need to do both things because the bible says so, but I no longer have that fire shut up in my bones because I know God is sovereign and all who are called will come to Him. Please help!

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Welcome. Keep searching the scriptures!

I made a partial conversion to Christianity when I was 22. I quit using drugs, went to AA, got sober, became celibate and stopped smoking. My life has been more interesting since I continued to study the scriptures for decades. My church attendance has been intermittent.

Hello..

I am a former Muslim and it was a Calvinist who helped bring me to Christ.. I am now also a Calvinist, but that is by choice because of how I see God and scripture.

This does no stop me from witnessing for Christ because you really never know who you will be reaching for Christ. (Lets face it, I came to belief)

God uses us, all of us, to reach the lost. I would either talk to your Pastor or find a Calvinist church who believes in missions.

Just because God is sovereign doesn't in any way diminish the calling we are called to, that of spreading the Gospel.

JenniferLeigh said:

I'm seeking help from Calvinists in particular who can help me understand my loss of passion in evangelism since becoming a Calvinist, not by persuasion, but by studying the Word. I've also lost my passion in prayer.

I know I need to do both things because the bible says so, but I no longer have that fire shut up in my bones because I know God is sovereign and all who are called will come to Him. Please help!

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Hello, another Calvinist here, nice to meet you, welcome to CF. It seem quite often it is supposed by those who disagree with Calvinism that the logical consequences or implications of Calvinist beliefs lead to no motivation for evangelism and prayer. However, those suppositions could not be further from reality. To give you a few names of Calvinists in history, and their devotion to prayer and work in evangelism.

Johnathan Edwards
George Whitfield

Both of the men mentioned above were key figures in what is called "The Great Awakening" in America. Both were used of God leading to a time of many conversions and repentance, through open air preaching of the Gospel.

Arthur Tappan Pierson

A Presbyterian, a Calvinist, and one of the founders of, pioneers of modern mission movements. The man lived to evangelize the world, you could say it was his priority in life.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon

A Calvinist, who has been given the title the "Prince of Preachers", and for good reasons (in collected writings his sermons total 63 volumes consisting of 3563 sermons). His passion for Christ and the Gospel is undeniable, he lived to preach the Gospel, he lived to be a "soul winner" for Christ, and God drew people to where he preached by the droves, packed audiences overflowing with people.

For resources on prayer, I recommend the links and sources found on this page. Also you might look for a book called "The Valley of Vision", it contains a collection of prayers by the Puritans. Of course reading the prayers of David in the Psalms is most highly recommended, and our Lord's prayer. I get the impression though you're after additional help and not simply a list of Scriptures or Scripture references, which I understand. Hope all of this helps, leads to further helps, and pray the Lord will help you in understanding, especially with regard to the Creator-creation distinction, and the differences between divine perspective and human perspective. God bless

The Canons of Dort and the Heidelberg Catechism address the topic of good works, among which you can count prayer and evangelism, as well as the topic of free will in relation to God's calling, from a Reformed or Calvinist perspective.
On one hand, God calls believers, but his calling neither eradicates, nor twists or diminishes our free will, but rather, it gradually works faith and thankfulness into our hearts. (Derived from the Canons of Dort, III-IV 16).
That being said, neither our deeds nor our merits can counterbalance God's grace and his will. Good works are to be done by Christians who express their thankfulness, rather than as an instrument to get to Heaven.
This teaching does not make people wicked, nor careless, because while our merits hold no weight before God, it is inevitable that we will do good works as an act of thankfulness for God's mercy.
(Derived from the Heidelberg Catechism, Q&A 62-64)
Thus, prayer and evangelism are an important part of a Christian's life, whether or not he can feel God's calling, and regardless of whether he trusts that call or not.
Your concern with your relationship with God shows that there's a flicker of hope in you, and the Holy Spirit that He planted is likely making you feel this way.
You should not let your sinfulness make you lose your motivation, but rather, put your faith in God and trust that He will reignite it.
God lets people fall, but He will never be out of their reach, even in periods of doubt and apostasy.

JenniferLeigh said:

I'm seeking help from Calvinists in particular who can help me understand my loss of passion in evangelism since becoming a Calvinist, not by persuasion, but by studying the Word. I've also lost my passion in prayer.

I know I need to do both things because the bible says so, but I no longer have that fire shut up in my bones because I know God is sovereign and all who are called will come to Him. Please help!

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Follow the Lord and His teachings in the Bible.
Jesus is our Savior and he be Lord...is He Lord in your life?

JenniferLeigh said:

I'm seeking help from Calvinists in particular who can help me understand my loss of passion in evangelism since becoming a Calvinist, not by persuasion, but by studying the Word. I've also lost my passion in prayer.

I know I need to do both things because the bible says so, but I no longer have that fire shut up in my bones because I know God is sovereign and all who are called will come to Him. Please help!

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Don't worry about it. God meticulously ordains everything - including your present apathy toward prayer and evangelism. If you feel blah it's because God has ordained that you should. Isn't God's sovereignty marvellous? In Calvinism, everything ends up being His fault.

You might want to check out: www.soteriology101.com

aiki said:

In Calvinism, everything ends up being His fault

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God is without any faults. You shouldn't say "fault", but rather, "plan".

Maybe that's OK and that's where you need to be.

I joke with my pastor than being Lutheran has cured me of being religious. I think sometimes too much piety is unhealthy, it's a kind of works-righteousness. It's much better to focus on real good works, like taking care of your family and your neighbors, than pretending that your own personal relationship with God is so important.

Both Lutherans and some Reformed Christians (particularly in Europe) have a rich tradition of "secular" spirituality and worldly activity done in service. This is far different from the pietist emphasis on a privatized, "religious" spirituality.

1 John 2
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

What are some of His commandments?

Matthew 28
16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Jeremiah 33:3a
3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee,

Jeremiah 29:12
Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.

Wedinn said:

God is without any faults. You shouldn't say "fault", but rather, "plan".

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I was speaking in regards to assigning responsibility or blame for something bad that has happened - in this case, the OP's apathy. In the Calvinist systematic, God is responsible for all evil because His sovereignty entails meticulous ordination of all events - good and bad, moral and immoral. So, then, when a man commits adultery, it is really God who has decreed that He should and causes him to do so. In light of this, it is...odd for a Calvinist to protest any sin, or perceived evil, since it is sovereignly ordained by God to occur.

aiki said:

I was speaking in regards to assigning responsibility or blame for something bad that has happened - in this case, the OP's apathy. In the Calvinist systematic, God is responsible for all evil because His sovereignty entails meticulous ordination of all events - good and bad, moral and immoral. So, then, when a man commits adultery, it is really God who has decreed that He should and causes him to do so. In light of this, it is...odd for a Calvinist to protest any sin, or perceived evil, since it is sovereignly ordained by God to occur.

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I seriously doubt Reformed churches deny human responsibility. I think that's taking the idea of sovereignty to a degree not intended by the doctrine.

FireDragon76 said:

I seriously doubt Reformed churches deny human responsibility. I think that's taking the idea of sovereignty to a degree not intended by the doctrine.

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Then you haven't been paying attention to the current leading proponents of the Calvinist/Reformed system of beliefs. You should check out this debate to see just how...rabid the current crop of Reformed proponents are:


Watch from 44:07 - 44:17. You'll see I'm not exaggerating the Reformed thinking on God's sovereignty.

aiki said:

Then you haven't been paying attention to the current leading proponents of the Calvinist/Reformed system of beliefs. You should check out this debate to see just how...rabid the current crop of Reformed proponents are:

Watch from 44:07 - 44:17. You'll see I'm not exaggerating the Reformed thinking on God's sovereignty.

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I'm inclined to agree with FireDragon. I feel that these teachings go beyond the scope of the doctrine.

Wedinn said:

I'm inclined to agree with FireDragon. I feel that these teachings go beyond the scope of the doctrine.

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In Lutheran theology, I have encountered the idea that God sustains and energizes all things, without in such a way being responsible for sin (if a rapist rapes a woman, God is not responsible for the rape). God of course has taken responsibility for all sin in the person of Jesus Christ. That is proof of his grace and mercy towards sinners, not proof of some kind of inherent responsibility on the part of God.

Then again, I think there's something to be said about just blaming God when things go bad . The Irish-American poet, Mark O'Brien, a man disabled with post-polio syndrome, said the greatest argument for God was he had to have somebody to blame for the mess of life. And I suppose he would know what he's talking about, since he could only move a few fingers and his head. Plus, Judaism isn't unfamiliar with this sort of sentiment (there's the story of Jews putting God on trial at Auschwitz, finding him liable, only to stop for prayer).

So perhaps we need to hold these two ideas in tension, the "theologically correct" one, and the human experience of desolation. I think the Christian faith is directed towards a God who is genuinely good and holy, and not simply a prime mover. In a post-nazi, post-holocaust world, perhaps we should recognize the place of protest as primordial to faith.

FireDragon76 said:

I seriously doubt Reformed churches deny human responsibility. I think that's taking the idea of sovereignty to a degree not intended by the doctrine.

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Calvinist/Reformed doctrine, like many other doctrinal systematics, is not perfectly monolithic in the degree to which its proponents hold to every doctrine. There are hyper-Calvinists who adhere radically to determinism and there are soft Calvinists who would only adopt two or three of the "petals" of TULIP and embrace, however inconsistently, notions of human responsibility. In general, though, serious Calvinists adopt either deterministic or compatibilistic (soft deterministic) views of human decision-making which creates some serious logical problems for them and contradicts those places in Scripture that indicate human free agency. For many Calvinists, the answer is to claim, not logical inconsistency, but "mystery," which is code, I think, for "our systematic has insuperable problems we don't want to admit are problems."

Well my first problem would be with someone calling himself or herself a Calvinist. I am not familiar with their particular theology, but I know Paul said for people not to say they were following him - i.e. being Paulists - but to only be followers of Messiah.

Why do you have to identify with anything or anyone but what the Scriptures say? You have them, you have the net, and many other resources, to search and learn. Honestly you have far more resources than Calvin ever dreamed of! Maybe he has some worthwhile insights, but none that aren't in the Bible.

Proverbs tell us it is good to seek wise counsel. But how do we know for sure who is wise and who is not? "You need that no man should teach you, but the Holy Spirit will teach you."

Don't fill up your mind with anything that distracts you from Him and your own personal search in the Bible.

And btw, based on other posts you have left, it seems you are under duress from you mate. Well, that can contribute to a feeling of being overwhelmed and thus feeling luke warm. I pray for your healing and guidance.