Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

Eternally Grateful said:

I just told you,

The answer to daniels prayer, his people will stop their sin, and the city will be restored, and prophesy concerning hs people will be completed

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How did this happen?

A71 said:

How did this happen?

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It has not yet

Isreal is still in sin, and the city is stil desolate and has been since babylon

Eternally Grateful said:

Nope your still wrong

Luke showed how the city was destroyed, not that an abomination which causes desolation made the holy place unclean, even jesus understood that when he said when you see the abomination fo desolation spoken of by daniel STANDING in the holy place..

No one saw it in 70ad, no one. No one could, the temple was destroyed and the city made desolate, as luke said

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Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke 21:20,21 are clearly the parallel verses to Matthew 24:15,16.

The Roman armies and the pagan ensigns which they bore are historically recognized as abominations to the Jews.

The destruction which they wrought unquestionably resulted in the desolation of which Matthew and Luke speak.

The holy place was the Holy City of Jerusalem, as Luke clarifies.

The Roman armies, abominations of desolation, were certainly standing in the city of Jerusalem. They couldn't fight sitting or lying down.

The two accounts are fully complementary and harmonious.

jgr said:

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke 21:20,21 are clearly the parallel verses to Matthew 24:15,16.

The Roman armies and the pagan ensigns which they bore are historically recognized as abominations to the Jews.

The destruction which they wrought unquestionably resulted in the desolation of which Matthew and Luke speak.

The holy place was the Holy City of Jerusalem, as Luke clarifies.

The Roman armies, abominations of desolation, were certainly standing in the city of Jerusalem. They couldn't fight sitting or lying down.

The two accounts are fully complementary and harmonious.

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One last time

The city being made desolate is not the same as a holy place being made desolate.

Dan 9 said the city would be made desolate by the people of the price who was to come,

The abomination of desolatin was a different event,

Luke 21 is one event,

Matt 24 is the other, they are not the same

Eternally Grateful said:

I just told you,

The answer to daniels prayer, his people will stop their sin, and the city will be restored, and prophesy concerning hs people will be completed

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So we are still under the old covenant, and Jesus has yet to come?

Eternally Grateful said:

One last time

The city being made desolate is not the same as a holy place being made desolate.

Dan 9 said the city would be made desolate by the people of the price who was to come,

The abomination of desolatin was a different event,

Luke 21 is one event,

Matt 24 is the other, they are not the same

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One more time

The Holy City of Jerusalem was the holy place which was made desolate; declared by Scripture and confirmed by history.

Jerusalem was made desolate by the Romans who were Prince Messiah's agents of judgment, destruction, and desolation; declared by Scripture and confirmed by history.

Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are parallel accounts of the same event; declared by Scripture and confirmed by history.

Eternally Grateful said:

What does that have to do with the rest of the passage,

Has it been fulfilled? If it has not, the test has not either

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The Old Testament text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 is shown quoted by the author of the Book of Hebrews in Uppercase letters, below.

Do you understand the meaning of the word "now"?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

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jgr said:

Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are parallel accounts of the same event; declared by Scripture and confirmed by history.

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History does NOT confirm the fulfilment of those chapters, let alone the large amount of prophecy about the end times, like what 1 Peter 3:1-7, Revelation 6:12-17, + describes.
Those who insist that there is no gap until the 70th 'week', who say all prophecy except the glorious Return of Jesus, is history; are simply left with no future events until that Day and 'in the dark' about all we are plainly told must happen. Commencing quite soon!

A71 said:

But the verse, what do you think it refers to?

to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.

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So, what about to seal up the vision and the prophecy? Do you think all prophecy has been done away with? Just curious.

oldrunner said:

So, what about to seal up the vision and the prophecy?

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(KJV+) SeventyH7657 weeksH7620 are determinedH2852 uponH5921 thy peopleH5971 and uponH5921 thy holyH6944 city,H5892 to finishH3607 the transgression,H6588 and to make an endH2856 of sins,H2403 and to make reconciliationH3722 for iniquity,H5771 and to bring inH935 everlastingH5769 righteousness,H6664 and to seal upH2856 the visionH2377 and prophecy,H5030 and to anointH4886 the most Holy.H6944 H6944

H2856
חָתַם
châtham
khaw-tham'
A primitive root; to close up; especially to seal: - make an end, mark, seal (up), stop.
Total KJV occurrences: 27

After freeze dried coffee is placed in the bag, and the air is pumped out, the bag is "sealed" as the last step.

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BABerean2 said:

(KJV+) SeventyH7657 weeksH7620 are determinedH2852 uponH5921 thy peopleH5971 and uponH5921 thy holyH6944 city,H5892 to finishH3607 the transgression,H6588 and to make an endH2856 of sins,H2403 and to make reconciliationH3722 for iniquity,H5771 and to bring inH935 everlastingH5769 righteousness,H6664 and to seal upH2856 the visionH2377 and prophecy,H5030 and to anointH4886 the most Holy.H6944 H6944

H2856
חָתַם
châtham
khaw-tham'
A primitive root; to close up; especially to seal: - make an end, mark, seal (up), stop.
Total KJV occurrences: 27

After freeze dried coffee is placed in the bag, and the air is pumped out, the bag is "sealed" as the last step.

.

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Yeah, kinda new that about the word. I was just wondering if A71 believes that any prophecy is left to be fulfilled?

keras said:

History does NOT confirm the fulfilment of those chapters, let alone the large amount of prophecy about the end times, like what 1 Peter 3:1-7, Revelation 6:12-17, + describes.
Those who insist that there is no gap until the 70th 'week', who say all prophecy except the glorious Return of Jesus, is history; are simply left with no future events until that Day and 'in the dark' about all we are plainly told must happen. Commencing quite soon!

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History is anathema to futurism, but futurism has no evidence with which to counter it, because there is no evidence for non-occurrence. That is why the best that futurism can muster is to protest that history does not confirm fulfillment.

But history does not hear nor care. It is immutable and indisputable.

It is truth's confirmation in the purest form.

And it will prevail.

BABerean2 said:

The Old Testament text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 is shown quoted by the author of the Book of Hebrews in Uppercase letters, below.

Do you understand the meaning of the word "now"?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

.

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What is your interpretation of the following things in particular, where I listed these things below?


THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH

FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS-----Who are the house of Israel meaning in this context? After what days?

I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE----who shall He be their God? We all know it's the house of Israel, but who is being meant by the house of Israel in this context?

NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM----How has this already been fulfilled? Provide an example or two how the house of Israel has already fulfilled this.

FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS----Can't be meaning the church then, can it?

THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE----when was this fulfilled? Even after Christ died and rose, there were the events in 70 AD where millions of His people, the ones that would have been unrighteous, apparently----were slaughtered at the time. Apparently then, He was still remembering their sins at that point anyway.

BTW, try and answer the questions if you would, that way one can try and see how you are arriving at your conclusions.


Something else I wanted to add.

FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS----why wasn't this true in 70 AD then?

oldrunner said:

So, what about to seal up the vision and the prophecy? Do you think all prophecy has been done away with? Just curious.

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No, not at all. There are prophecies that extend past Christ, and past AD 73. Obviously Revelation is entirely post AD73.

The expression "endtime" only exists in Daniel, where it is phrased as "time of the end". It refers to either the end of the Greek empire or of National Israel, the meaning being determined by the prophetic setting. Once one understands that the contemporary notion of "the endtime" is an imposition to the text, and entirely foreign to what is being expatiated, Daniel makes a lot more sense. "The endtimes" is a bit of a theological myth really.

DavidPT said:

What is your interpretation of the following things in particular, where I listed these things below?


THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH

FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS-----Who are the house of Israel meaning in this context? After what days?

I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE----who shall He be their God? We all know it's the house of Israel, but who is being meant by the house of Israel in this context?

NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM----How has this already been fulfilled? Provide an example or two how the house of Israel has already fulfilled this.

FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS----Can't be meaning the church then, can it?

THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE----when was this fulfilled? Even after Christ died and rose, there were the events in 70 AD where millions of His people, the ones that would have been unrighteous, apparently----were slaughtered at the time. Apparently then, He was still remembering their sins at that point anyway.

BTW, try and answer the questions if you would, that way one can try and see how you are arriving at your conclusions.


Something else I wanted to add.

FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS----why wasn't this true in 70 AD then?

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THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS-----Who are the house of Israel meaning in this context? After what days?

Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
(Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost in the verse above, and revealed that God had made Jesus the Messiah. This is a confirmation of the New Covenant found in Matthew 26:28.)

I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE----who shall He be their God? We all know it's the house of Israel, but who is being meant by the house of Israel in this context? (See the verse above.)

NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM----How has this already been fulfilled? Provide an example or two how the house of Israel has already fulfilled this.

Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

Those who are in the New Covenant have their own internal teacher, in the form of the Holy Spirit.

FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS----Can't be meaning the church then, can it?

It means all races of people who have had their sins covered by the blood of Christ.
Almost all of the first members of the Church were Israelites. The Gentiles were grafted in later. In Romans 1:16 and Matthew 10:5-7 we find that the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews.

THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE----when was this fulfilled? Even after Christ died and rose, there were the events in 70 AD where millions of His people, the ones that would have been unrighteous, apparently----were slaughtered at the time. Apparently then, He was still remembering their sins at that point anyway.

Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." (Quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
(Fulfilled at Calvary.)

Every human on the planet is viewed in sin by God, without the blood of Jesus. That was true before 70 AD, and during 70AD, and today.

BTW, try and answer the questions if you would, that way one can try and see how you are arriving at your conclusions.


Something else I wanted to add.

FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS----why wasn't this true in 70 AD then?

It was for those who had placed their faith in Christ and left the city, before the final siege. The warning is found below.

Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

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Eternally Grateful said:

Yes it does, not sure what you mean by the 12: 4 and 9 reference though

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Hi E.G.,
If we followed the angel's instructions, we should find fulfillments in the era approximate to 1948, and eliminate all the confusion, disagreement, and contention. What did we think would happen when we VIOLATED the INSTRUCTIONS?!?


With Best Regards,
DaDad

Eternally Grateful said:

not all prophesies were end times, Most of his prophesies spanned the 4 gentile empires (or 5 if you want to count rome as 2) only the second or rebirth of rome speaks of the end times..

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Ummmmm, Rome is DEAD. The Roman emperors continued successions until the year 235, whereupon military governorship lasted until the year 476 when formal Roman leadership ceased. Another (Italy) occupies that ancient geography.

And more so, Daniel 2:45 specifies the sequence: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE.

But if you really expect some Ten nations to arise from the EU, then please feel free to select which Ten you can discern:

I believe you should find 21 nations which you can choose from. Or you could consider the United Nations:


I believe you should find 10 nations which you can choose from.

Thanks,
DaDad

jgr said:

History is anathema to futurism, but futurism has no evidence with which to counter it, because there is no evidence for non-occurrence. That is why the best that futurism can muster is to protest that history does not confirm fulfillment.

But history does not hear nor care. It is immutable and indisputable.

It is truth's confirmation in the purest form.

And it will prevail.

Click to expand...

But history just does not confirm the fulfilment of the many and plainly stated prophesies about the end times. Take the clearly described cosmic things for example; no history book mentions anything like it.
What is really indisputable, is that we await all the events prophesied for the last 15 or so years before Jesus Returns.

The onus, jgr, is on you to provide the reference in the Bible, or another history book, for when those things happened. It isn't acceptable for you to say they have; prove it.

A71 said:

So if a war kicks off and Israel is nuked, what then?

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Israel will be the one DROPPING THE WEAPONS. And it will be on their own territory, so who can complain except the invading armies?!?

A71 said:

But Dan 9 is predominantly about the first Century.

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That's not what the angel said!

DaDad