Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

Davy said:

I guess you like to forget about this Scripture too:

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

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This takes place after the 1000 years.

Davy said:

Contrary to your understanding maybe, but not contrary to God's Word. Again, I cannot help that some are not able to understand the spiritually dead idea our Lord Jesus and His Apostles taught in God's Word. That's what those "dead" of Rev.20:5 is about, as those are the nations of unsaved that exist during that 1,000 years of Rev.20. Only those will be able to be tempted by Satan when he is loosed at the end of the period.

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Flesh & Blood cannot enter the kingdom. Only glorified saints are there.

seventysevens said:

You still FAIL to provide anything at all to prove your opinion has any validity - you have an opinion - Nothing to prove it is supported by the Bible
The fact that you cannot provide any scriptural evidence if what say proves you are in error - When Jesus returns HE cats satan into prison for 1000 years - regardless if that literally means just a long time , it LITERALLY means satan is prevented from deceiving the nations for that long time 0 THAT has never happened YET ! , AFTER 1000 years has past satan is freed to deceive the nations again

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Here's the lay of the land.

Jesus now sits on David's Throne since his resurrection/ascension Acts 2:29–33. This is the "kingdom" symbolised by the Jewish "Millennial Kingdom" Revelation 20:2 that Jesus said was "at hand" Matthew 3:2, "within you" Luke 17:21, "not of this world" John 18:36 and "comes Luke 17:20, being spiritual in nature.

And one must be born again to see it John 3:3. It is the kingdom many still look for physically in Premillennialism and Dispensationalism even though it has been here unnoticed by them, and in heaven since Pentecost 33 AD. Where Jesus remains on David's Throne/God's Throne 1 Chronicles 29:23 until the resurrection of the dead at the end of the world 1 Corinthians 15:21–26.

Biblewriter said:

The thousand years may indeed be only symbolic, although that is a strained interpretation considering that fact that the Holy Spirit used this designation six times over in just one passage. But whether or not the thousand years is symbolic, a very large number of scriptures explicitly state that there is a coming earthly kingdom, centered in Jerusalem, from which blessing will flow out to the entire world. They also teach, in explicit language, that this will come to pass after, not before, the Lord comes in power and glory to judge the wicked. And they teach this in clear, plain words that cannot be misunderstood. They can only be either believed or disbelieved.
I have traced through some of these scriptures in the thread:
What Happens When Messiah Comes http://www.christianforums.com/t7324109-5/

I have traced more of them in the threads:

The Restoration of Israel, as Described in the Holy Scriptures http://www.christianforums.com/t7737854-38/

The unfulfilled promise of Israel’s repentance http://www.christianforums.com/t5835530/

The unfulfilled promise to David http://www.christianforums.com/t5844429-7/

The unfulfilled promise to Abraham http://www.christianforums.com/t5766758-5/

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This is all Pharisaic and not according to what Jesus said about the kingdom

Jesus now sits on David's Throne since his resurrection/ascension Acts 2:29–33. This is the "kingdom" symbolised by the Jewish "Millennial Kingdom" Revelation 20:2 that Jesus said was "at hand" Matthew 3:2, "within you" Luke 17:21, "not of this world" John 18:36 and "comes Luke 17:20, being spiritual in nature.

And one must be born again to see it John 3:3. It is the kingdom many still look for physically in Premillennialism and Dispensationalism even though it has been here unnoticed by them, and in heaven since Pentecost 33 AD. Where Jesus remains on David's Throne/God's Throne 1 Chronicles 29:23 until the resurrection of the dead at the end of the world 1 Corinthians 15:21–26.

““To him who overcomes will I grant to sit with Me on My throne [future], as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne [presently in heaven]. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”” (Revelation 3:21–22)

“And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration [New Heavens and Earth] when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Matthew 19:28)

“Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it. From His face the earth and the heavens fled away, and no place was found for them.” (Revelation 20:11)

““When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.” (Matthew 25:31)

seventysevens said:

So what you are indeed saying is that you completely ignore all scripture that you prefer not to be there and pretend that it is not there , then you focus on nothing more than some mystical view that says the BORN AGAIN Christians cannot see a physical Kingdom of JESUS on earth even though it is shown in scripture there is one , you refuse to accept any scripture except that which you prefer to use to create your own belief system, which you cannot see anything that is real

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No, only born again Christians can see and enter the kingdom, here since Jesus first proclaimed it. The Pharisees rejected Christ looking for the same physical kingdom you look for.

seventysevens said:

Correct


FALSE totally FALSE - First I AM A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN !
I am not looking for anything that cannot be found EXPLICITLY in scripture -
You say the kingdom is invisible - that is your failure to understand scripture as it vividly describes the physical tangible reality
You have shown you have no understanding of so many more scriptures , that it will take eons to get you to understand because you refuse to see what is in scripture when it doesn't fit your preference , a kingdom of your own making

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Then you can see the kingdom! Try looking for it. All of the things the OT prophecies depict exist now as if the kingdom were physical. Find the temple. It's here. Find David's Throne with Jesus seated on it. It's here. All of what the physical symbols depict is here or on the way if you look for the results and not for the symbols to appear.

Biblewriter said:

This is utterly false. Are "the mountains of Israel," along with "the hills," "the rivers," "the valleys," "the desolate wastes," and "the cities that are forsaken" currently inhabited by "all the house of Israel, all of it"? (Ezekiel 36:1-10)

Does the nation of Israel currently have the borders so explicitly spelled out in Ezekiel 47:15-20? and is the land of Israel currently divided among the twelve tribes as is so explicitly laid out in Ezekiel 48?

Again, is there even one person still living of Jerusalem that is not Holy? (Isaiah 4:3) Or is there even one Israelite who is not dwelling in the land of Israel? (Ezekiel 36:10)

The answer to all of these is no, most absolutely not. But if these things have not yet happened, these prophecies have never been fulfilled.

Now you claim that these prophecies simply do not mean what they so explicitly say. But in saying that, you make God a liar. For If God, who knows the end from the beginning, knew that these prophecies would not be fulfilled, He lied when He gave them.

For our God very clearly said that all these, and many similar things, would definitely happen, even going so far as to say, "Search from the book of the LORD, and read: Not one of these shall fail; Not one shall lack her mate. For My mouth has commanded it, and His Spirit has gathered them." Isaiah 34:16

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If you use the Restoration of Israel as a dividing line in all of the OT prophets, and ask yourself when might this or that happen? Might it happen before the restoration or after, you can assign the prophecies to their proper time slot. The key is in knowing when Israel's restoration happens.

Jesus says no one knows this but the Father. It does happen at the end of the world on the last day in the resurrection of the righteous dead (biblical Israel) and the Rapture. If it happens after this, it takes place in the New Heavens and earth. If before, it takes place in the New Covenant era.