Is eternal security a “license” to sin?

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

Any denial of eternal security is, in its essence, a belief that we must maintain our own salvation by our own good works and efforts.

Click to expand...

That is not true.

That is as much a caricature of the Arminian viewpoint as the "license to sin" is of OSAS.

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

Is eternal security a “license” to sin?

Click to expand...

Paul asked this and answered it in Romans.
Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

To continue in sin would be foolish. We are dead to sin.
Jesus Christ provided a much better way to live.
Living in sin will cause a myriad of problems for the one doing so. It will not cost them eternal life though.
We can have peace and joy that those living in sin cannot understand.

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

Is eternal security a “license” to sin?
Posted by Simon Yap on June 6, 2012

Answer: The most frequent objection to the doctrine of eternal security is that it supposedly allows people to live any way that they want and still be saved. While this may be “technically” true, it is not true in reality.

Click to expand...

It’s not “technically” true, either.

Dave-W said:

That is not true.

That is as much a caricature of the Arminian viewpoint as the "license to sin" is of OSAS.

Click to expand...

I’d appreciate a fuller explanation if you care to give one.

Albion said:

I’d appreciate a fuller explanation if you care to give one.

Click to expand...

Since I am writing from work I do not have my resources nor much time to give lengthy explanations.

I dont believe that you can be eternally secure while still having concept of sin in your life, or the ability to sin. It is almost like what many Christians believe it to be like in the heaven of an afterlife.....e.g. most believe that it would be impossible to sin in Heaven. This is eternal security.

But yes, I do believe eternal security is a goal for this present life...

Dave-W said:

Since I am writing from work I do not have my resources nor much time to give lengthy explanations.

Click to expand...

I understand.

RaymondG said:

I dont believe that you can be eternally secure while still having concept of sin in your life, or the ability to sin.

Click to expand...

But if the promise of forgiveness is accepted by you as true, sin should not be a cause of doubt unless you give yourself over to willful and unrepentant sinning. For the Arminian, however, how can he ever know where he stands with God and how long it will stay that way?

Albion said:

But if the promise of forgiveness is accepted by you as true, sin should not be a cause of doubt unless you give yourself over to willful and unrepentant sinning. For the Arminian, however, how can he ever know where he stands with God and how long it will stay that way?

Click to expand...

I guess Im saying that you are eternally secure, when you are without sin. The idea of sinning after this distinction, doesn't exist.....Much the same as, the belief of those who feel there wont be any sin in the heaven of the future....and for much of the same reasons.

So there is no real reason to talk about losing security or sinning after. Because It isn't possible.....Why? The same reason why it is believed impossible for the inhabitants in the Heaven of the future.

RaymondG said:

I guess Im saying that you are eternally secure, when you are without sin. The idea of sinning after this distinction, doesn't exist.....Much the same as, the belief of those who feel there wont be any sin in the heaven of the future....and for much of the same reasons.

So there is no real reason to talk about losing security or sinning after. Because It isn't possible.....Why? The same reason why it is believed impossible for the inhabitants in the Heaven of the future.

Click to expand...

Is there anyone on Earth who is without sin? I have to say No.

Albion said:

Is there anyone on Earth who is without sin? I have to say No.

Click to expand...

I have to say you are not far off. For the way is narrow, and few there be that find it...

EternallyKeptByJesus says that Simon Yap said:

A person who has truly been redeemed by Jesus Christ will not live a life characterized by continuous, willful sin.

Click to expand...

I agree. And scripture for this includes how Hebrews 12:4-11 says that our Father corrects every one of His children, or else "you are illegitimate and not sons."

And this correction by God is necessary, then, I would say. This is work by God, not only keeping us saved, but changing us to become more and more like Jesus so we are ready to spend eternity with Jesus > also, we can feed on 1 John 4:17 which says God's love makes us "as He is" "in this world", and this is reason to have "boldness in the day of judgment".

So, our assurance of salvation is not only that we "first trusted in Christ" (Ephesians 1:12), but our assurance includes how our Heavenly Father is succeeding in correcting us more and more into His own love's perfection.

and Simon said:

The moment a person truly believes in Jesus Christ, he or she is saved and secure in that salvation.

Click to expand...

Our Apostle Paul says "we who first trusted in Christ", in Ephesians 1:12; so I think Biblical believing needs to mean trusting in Jesus. And this is a personal action, of submitting to Jesus and then discovering all He does with us > Matthew 11:28-30. So, belief is not only accepting certain ideas and saying a copy-cat prayer which would be a work of saying a prayer. But in us we needed how God changed our hearts so we have trusted in Jesus and submitted to Him.

and said:

Salvation is not gained by faith, but then maintained by works.

Click to expand...

I would agree, plus I'll offer >

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

When someone trusts in Jesus for salvation, the person becomes "joined" spiritually to Jesus so he or she becomes "one spirit with Him." And this union has almighty power, I understand, so the bond can not be broken; plus, God's grace almighty changes the person's nature so now the person does not have the nature to be able to choose to leave God. But then comes correction of His love's perfection . . . of how God's love "in our hearts" (Romans 5:5) has God's almighty effect to change us to have the character of God's own love > God can do no less in us; Jesus growing in us as our new inner Person (Galatians 4:19) shares His own good with us in our hearts and our new nature. Jesus in us makes us more and more able to personally submit to our Father in His peace all the time > Colossians 3:15 > and to relate the way our Apostle Paul says we all are called to relate as family with one another > Ephesians 4:1-3.

also said:

It is God who maintains our salvation (Jude 24).

Click to expand...

Yes, but as I am offering, God does not only maintain us, but He is succeeding in correcting and perfecting us in His own love.

plus said:

To claim that we must obey God’s Word or live a godly life to maintain our salvation is saying that Jesus’ death was not sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins.

Click to expand...

But our Apostle Paul says "we shall be saved by His life."

"For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." (Romans 5:10)

So, while the work of Jesus Christ's death on the cross is enough to get us reconciled to God, there also is how "we shall be saved by His life." I personally understand that this means how the life of God's love in us is eternal life . . . of God's own love; and this love life of God in us effects our nature to change us to become like Jesus > and this gives us reason to have "boldness in the day of judgment" . . . as 1 John 4:17 does say.

and that Simon said:

Jesus’ death was absolutely sufficient to pay for all of our sins—past, present, and future, pre-salvation and post-salvation (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

Click to expand...

And our Apostle Paul says we are reconciled with God, through the death of Jesus on the cross.

But then comes correction and perfection of His love. And there are activities which we need to do, in the process of seeking how our Father corrects and perfects us. So, does Simon talk about this?

If God commands something, it is essential, isn't it? And in our New Covenant, there are various things which we are commanded to do. But I understand that all which God commands are not a condition, but a result which comes with being joined to Jesus and then discovering how we become and live and love because of Jesus growing in us as our new inner Person > Galatians 4:19.

God working in us has us succeeding in all He means by His word >

Philippians 2:13

Isaiah 55:11

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

Is eternal security a “license” to sin?
Posted by Simon Yap on June 6, 2012

Answer: The most frequent objection to the doctrine of eternal security is that it supposedly allows people to live any way that they want and still be saved. While this may be “technically” true, it is not true in reality. A person who has truly been redeemed by Jesus Christ will not live a life characterized by continuous, willful sin. We must draw a distinction between how a Christian should live and what a person must do in order to receive salvation.

The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:6). The moment a person truly believes in Jesus Christ, he or she is saved and secure in that salvation. Salvation is not gained by faith, but then maintained by works. The apostle Paul addresses this issue in Galatians 3:3 when he asks, “Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?” If we are saved by faith, our salvation is also maintained and secured by faith. We cannot earn our own salvation. Therefore, neither can we earn the maintenance of our salvation. It is God who maintains our salvation (Jude 24). It is God’s hand that holds us firmly in His grasp (John 10:28-29). It is God’s love that nothing can separate us from (Romans 8:38-39).

Any denial of eternal security is, in its essence, a belief that we must maintain our own salvation by our own good works and efforts. This is completely antithetical to salvation by grace. We are saved because of Christ’s merits, not our own (Romans 4:3-8). To claim that we must obey God’s Word or live a godly life to maintain our salvation is saying that Jesus’ death was not sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. Jesus’ death was absolutely sufficient to pay for all of our sins—past, present, and future, pre-salvation and post-salvation (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

Click to expand...

The Lord disciplines the sinner.

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

Is eternal security a “license” to sin?
Posted by Simon Yap on June 6, 2012

Answer: The most frequent objection to the doctrine of eternal security is that it supposedly allows people to live any way that they want and still be saved. While this may be “technically” true, it is not true in reality. A person who has truly been redeemed by Jesus Christ will not live a life characterized by continuous, willful sin. We must draw a distinction between how a Christian should live and what a person must do in order to receive salvation.

The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:6). The moment a person truly believes in Jesus Christ, he or she is saved and secure in that salvation. Salvation is not gained by faith, but then maintained by works. The apostle Paul addresses this issue in Galatians 3:3 when he asks, “Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?” If we are saved by faith, our salvation is also maintained and secured by faith. We cannot earn our own salvation. Therefore, neither can we earn the maintenance of our salvation. It is God who maintains our salvation (Jude 24). It is God’s hand that holds us firmly in His grasp (John 10:28-29). It is God’s love that nothing can separate us from (Romans 8:38-39).

Any denial of eternal security is, in its essence, a belief that we must maintain our own salvation by our own good works and efforts. This is completely antithetical to salvation by grace. We are saved because of Christ’s merits, not our own (Romans 4:3-8). To claim that we must obey God’s Word or live a godly life to maintain our salvation is saying that Jesus’ death was not sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. Jesus’ death was absolutely sufficient to pay for all of our sins—past, present, and future, pre-salvation and post-salvation (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

Click to expand...

Yep! That's exactly how I think as well. I would add that the reason why OSAS never turns into a license to sin is due to the nature of regeneration. Those who have been born of God can testify that while we still struggle with the flesh (Gal 5:17), it is against the regenerate nature to be incline to live in sin. It just doesn't happen. As John states, speaking in a lifestyle sense, "No one who has been born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:9,10

So while lifestyle is not a cause or condition for salvation, it is an indicator. And I get the sense that those who bring up the accusation that OSAS leads to a sinful life are those who say to themselves that if they believed OSAS they would use it as a license to sin themselves. That's my impression. It's against the nature of those born of God to ask themselves "how much can I sin and get away with?" Rather the unregenerate ask such questions as it's unnatural for them to live a righteous life.

For those born of God "his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world." 1John 5:3,4 But not so for those not born of God, whose rhetoric is like that of those who seek justification by law, where they find they need to add "in order to be saved" at the end of every command to give them some incentive to obey. This in contrast to those born of God who do what is right simply because it's the right thing to do, or it's the kind thing to do, and don't need some kind of negative incentive to do what comes naturally to children of God.

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

Is eternal security a “license” to sin?
Posted by Simon Yap on June 6, 2012

Answer: The most frequent objection to the doctrine of eternal security is that it supposedly allows people to live any way that they want and still be saved. While this may be “technically” true, it is not true in reality. A person who has truly been redeemed by Jesus Christ will not live a life characterized by continuous, willful sin. We must draw a distinction between how a Christian should live and what a person must do in order to receive salvation.

The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:6). The moment a person truly believes in Jesus Christ, he or she is saved and secure in that salvation. Salvation is not gained by faith, but then maintained by works. The apostle Paul addresses this issue in Galatians 3:3 when he asks, “Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?” If we are saved by faith, our salvation is also maintained and secured by faith. We cannot earn our own salvation. Therefore, neither can we earn the maintenance of our salvation. It is God who maintains our salvation (Jude 24). It is God’s hand that holds us firmly in His grasp (John 10:28-29). It is God’s love that nothing can separate us from (Romans 8:38-39).

Any denial of eternal security is, in its essence, a belief that we must maintain our own salvation by our own good works and efforts. This is completely antithetical to salvation by grace. We are saved because of Christ’s merits, not our own (Romans 4:3-8). To claim that we must obey God’s Word or live a godly life to maintain our salvation is saying that Jesus’ death was not sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. Jesus’ death was absolutely sufficient to pay for all of our sins—past, present, and future, pre-salvation and post-salvation (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

Click to expand...

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding;

If you have faith/trust in Christ...

Then you will want to listen to His words in the gospels, and hear what He told you.

Here is another thread that will probably go on for over 100 pages of arguing back and forth.

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

Is eternal security a “license” to sin?
Posted by Simon Yap on June 6, 2012

Answer: The most frequent objection to the doctrine of eternal security is that it supposedly allows people to live any way that they want and still be saved. While this may be “technically” true, it is not true in reality. A person who has truly been redeemed by Jesus Christ will not live a life characterized by continuous, willful sin. We must draw a distinction between how a Christian should live and what a person must do in order to receive salvation.

The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:6). The moment a person truly believes in Jesus Christ, he or she is saved and secure in that salvation. Salvation is not gained by faith, but then maintained by works. The apostle Paul addresses this issue in Galatians 3:3 when he asks, “Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?” If we are saved by faith, our salvation is also maintained and secured by faith. We cannot earn our own salvation. Therefore, neither can we earn the maintenance of our salvation. It is God who maintains our salvation (Jude 24). It is God’s hand that holds us firmly in His grasp (John 10:28-29). It is God’s love that nothing can separate us from (Romans 8:38-39).

Any denial of eternal security is, in its essence, a belief that we must maintain our own salvation by our own good works and efforts. This is completely antithetical to salvation by grace. We are saved because of Christ’s merits, not our own (Romans 4:3-8). To claim that we must obey God’s Word or live a godly life to maintain our salvation is saying that Jesus’ death was not sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. Jesus’ death was absolutely sufficient to pay for all of our sins—past, present, and future, pre-salvation and post-salvation (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

Click to expand...

Those two seem opposites.

Those who believe with a living and saving, heart faith, their faith is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10, Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, 1 John 3:7) and also tenacious unto the enduring to the end (Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14, Matthew 10:22). They will never fall away from faith, for they are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5). The Holy Spirit seals faith into their heart that cannot be lost or taken away from them.

Those who have a mere mental assent to the tenets of the faith, or an emotional experience, who have a shallow, nominal, or lukewarm faith, are not sealed in this way. In fact, it is inevitable that they should fall away, because they are not of the good soil but are of the shallow or thorny ground.

Salvation is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9), and we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:1-2). Take away faith, there is no access to grace. And without grace, there is no salvation. So take away faith, there is no grace and thus, no salvation.

And yet eternal security is a reality in scripture. So I conclude that when we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, He places within us a righteous faith that will be in our hearts for ever. If someone falls away and loses faith, it is the evidence that they were not sealed by the Holy Spirit because their faith was not a living and saving, heart faith. I reject with my whole heart the idea that a man can fall away from faith and still be saved; for that is an unrighteous doctrine; and Jesus Christ, the author of the Bible, is the Righteous One (1 John 2:1).

And yes, mental assent to the doctrines of the faith is a requirement. However, mental assent to doctrine, alone, will not save the soul (see John 5:39-40, 1 Corinthians 8:1-3). And an emotional experience does not necessarily translate into a living and saving heart faith, either (Matthew 13:20, Mark 4:16, Luke 8:13); although one who is truly saved will very likely have an emotional response of falling head over heels in love with Jesus.