Works are Intrinsic to Salvation

[Mark Quayle]

Salvation also means a certain kind of behaviour. There is no pressure to produce works, but they might naturally follow because God and religion become the centre of our lives.

"There is no pressure to produce works"? 2 Corinthians 5: "14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again." —what is this, if not pressure to produce works? The Bible is replete with exhortations and even commandments to work.

 

[Mark Quayle]

What I have presented and you have denied is that a person for whom Christ died is Justified before God by that simple fact alone, apart from their faith.

If they are justified, are they then by definition saved? Are there any who go to hell, although justified?

 

[Clare73]

What I have presented and you have denied is that a person for whom Christ died is Justified before God by that simple fact alone, apart from their faith.

What you have presented I have denied because the NT denies it, by presenting justification by faith (Ro 3:22, Ro 3:27-28, Gal 2:16) to everyone who believes (Ac 13:39).

You must Biblically demonstrate my error, without setting Scripture against itself, for your assertion thereof to have Biblical merit.
You have not done that.

Lay down your contra-Biblical rationale, and receive the word of God in Ro 3:22, Ro 3:27-28, Gal 2:16, Ac 13:39.

 

[Clare73]

Wind guides. Take it up with the encyclopaedia of the Hebrew that gives its meaning

The text (Jn 3:3-8) is in the Greek, which presents the meaning of its use of "wind;" i.e., "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

The meaning here is of the sovereignty of the Holy Spirit in the rebirth, based on nothing but the choice of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I would say what you advocate as well is a false gospel since you say the basis of salvation is faith on the atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, The Truth is the basis of Salvation is the Person and Work of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins before Faith, but Faith will be given to them who already have been Justified by the Blood of Christ so that they will receive it in their minds and hearts and believe it.

Do you agree that salvation is by faith through grace? If you do agree, which I honestly wonder at this point, what do you think that faith is in?

 

[Dah'veed]

What I have presented and you have denied is that a person for whom Christ died is Justified before God by that simple fact alone, apart from their faith.

Is a person saved when
A- they believe
B- they are justified
C- they are baptized
D- all of the above

 

[Brightfame52]

mark q

If they are justified, are they then by definition saved?

Yes in that they are saved and Justified from the penalty of their sins, and declared righteous, and forgiven.

Are there any who go to hell, although justified?

No

 

[Brightfame52]

What you have presented I have denied because the NT denies it, by presenting justification by faith (Ro 3:22, Ro 3:27-28, Gal 2:16) to everyone who believes (Ac 13:39).

You must Biblically demonstrate my error, without setting Scripture against itself, for your assertion thereof to have Biblical merit.
You have not done that.

Lay down your contra-Biblical rationale, and receive the word of God in Ro 3:22, Ro 3:27-28, Gal 2:16, Ac 13:39.

You deny Justification by Faith/Christ, you condition Justification on your act of believing, that is works. Justification by Faith is the realization that One has already been Justified by Christs Blood.

 

[Brightfame52]

Do you agree that salvation is by faith through grace? If you do agree, which I honestly wonder at this point, what do you think that faith is in?

No, its by grace through Faith read Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Says nothing here about Faith/Believing being a condition for Salvation. Salvation is 100% conditioned on Jesus Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

Is a person saved when
A- they believe
B- they are justified
C- they are baptized
D- all of the above

A Person that Christ died for is saved, forgiven of all sins, Justified and declared righteous before God based on Christs death for them alone, prior to anything they do, think, or say.

 

[Clare73]

You deny Justification by Faith/Christ, you condition Justification on your act of believing, that is works. Justification by Faith is the realization that One has already been Justified by Christs Blood.

And you don't even see the contradiction.

Previously addressed. . .

Habitual abuse of Scripture blinds a person to their contradictions.

 

[Dah'veed]

A Person that Christ died for is saved, forgiven of all sins, Justified and declared righteous before God based on Christs death for them alone, prior to anything they do, think, or say.

Since in your viewpoint, declaring with your mouth is frowned upon, is looking to Christ plausible, or is it too much to ask for?

Since you have been raised with Christ set your thoughts, focus on things of above for your life is hidden with Christ in God.
When Christ who our life is manifested, you will share in His glory. Col 3:2-4

God invited you to share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ through the gospel. 2 Thess 2:14

The life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you eternal life; 1 John 1:2

 

[Mark Quayle]

No, its by grace through Faith read Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Says nothing here about Faith/Believing being a condition for Salvation. Salvation is 100% conditioned on Jesus Christ.

My bad. I got the order wrong in the text. If salvation is therefore "by Grace through faith" as you quoted. And if "Salvation is 100% conditioned on Jesus Christ" as you said, then Grace through Faith is conditioned on Jesus Christ, and not by any worthy act of man. In other words, salvation is caused in Christ, by God, before man chooses it. No?

There is no argument that man does not choose, nor that his choice is not effective. But that his choice is not his alone, nor that it is done any way but by God's regeneration already accomplished in him. Even that faith by which he believes, is not his, except in that it is done in him by God, as a result of his changed nature.

This becomes then a causation sequence, time irrelevant.

 

[Mark Quayle]

A Person that Christ died for is saved, forgiven of all sins, Justified and declared righteous before God based on Christs death for them alone, prior to anything they do, think, or say.

So did he actually die for all that ever lived and will live, in that they are justified and sins paid for by Christ?

 

[IoanC]

"There is no pressure to produce works"? 2 Corinthians 5: "14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again." —what is this, if not pressure to produce works? The Bible is replete with exhortations and even commandments to work.

It is good to produce works. But pressure to do something is evil, totalitarian, inhumane.

 

[Brightfame52]

And you don't even see the contradiction.

Previously addressed. . .

You may have called yourself addressing it, but nothing changes, if you condition your salvation/justification on something you do, its works. The scripture doesnt teach that, but against it.

 

[Brightfame52]

Since in your viewpoint, declaring with your mouth is frowned upon, is looking to Christ plausible, or is it too much to ask for?

Since you have been raised with Christ set your thoughts, focus on things of above for your life is hidden with Christ in God.
When Christ who our life is manifested, you will share in His glory. Col 3:2-4

God invited you to share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ through the gospel. 2 Thess 2:14

The life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you eternal life; 1 John 1:2

You going off on some kind of tangent here. Keep it simple, if one conditions their salvation based on something they do, its works.

 

[Brightfame52]

My bad. I got the order wrong in the text. If salvation is therefore "by Grace through faith" as you quoted. And if "Salvation is 100% conditioned on Jesus Christ" as you said, then Grace through Faith is conditioned on Jesus Christ, and not by any worthy act of man. In other words, salvation is caused in Christ, by God, before man chooses it. No?

There is no argument that man does not choose, nor that his choice is not effective. But that his choice is not his alone, nor that it is done any way but by God's regeneration already accomplished in him. Even that faith by which he believes, is not his, except in that it is done in him by God, as a result of his changed nature.

This becomes then a causation sequence, time irrelevant.

Do you believe a person Jesus Christ died for, by His death alone, before, prior to any conversion experience, regeneration, and while they are yet still enemies dead in sin and unbelievers, is Justified forgiven and declared righteous before God ? Yes or No Thanks

 

[Brightfame52]

So did he actually die for all that ever lived and will live, in that they are justified and sins paid for by Christ?

No Just for the elect.

 

[Clare73]

You may have called yourself addressing it, but nothing changes, if you condition your salvation/justification on something you do, its works. The scripture doesnt teach that, but against it.

Assertion without Biblical demonstration is assertion without Biblical merit.