Well no, the
Luke 21 events are actually about the signs of the end of this world and relate to the 6 Seals of Rev.6 which was given to the seven Churches in Asia (Minor). The main difference with
Luke 21 compared to
Matthew 24 and
Mark 13, is that
Luke 21 gives us new information about the armies of the Antichrist that will surround Jerusalem in the last generation.
The text disagrees.
Jesus explicitly points out the temple buildings directly in eye sight of the disciples by saying 'for what you SEE HERE'. He states not one stone will be left on another in regards to the temple right in their eye sight. The disciples ask when will THESE THINGS (temple building right in their eye sight destroyed) happen.
Luke 21:6-7 “
As for what you see HERE, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.” “Teacher,” they asked, “
when will THESE THINGS happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”
To say Jesus is not speaking about the temple in front of them, but about a 3rd temple some 2000+ years later is to completely change what Jesus said to fit a false eschatological belief.
In
Luke 19, Jesus was upon a colt at the base of the Mount of Olives when the Pharisees asked Him to rebuke His disciples. That's to whom and when He gave the prophecy of Jerusalem's 70 A.D. destruction, not in
Luke 21 when He was upon the Mount of Olives when His disciples came to Him privately asking about the signs of the end of the world and of His second coming (Matt.24:3).
In luke 19, we have the parable of the 10 minas, in which the same citizens, who hated the king when he left, are slaughtered at his return
Luke 19:14-15, 27
“But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’ “He was made king, however, and returned home. But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’ ”
Then in Luke 19, we have Jesus weeping over Jerusalem and prophesying of its destruction:
Luke 19:41-44
As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it
42and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes.
43The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side.
44They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”
Then in Luke 20, we have Jesus giving the parable of the wicked tenants, in which the wicked tenants are slaughtered at the coming of vineyard owner because they killed the vineyard owner's son. The pharisees realize this parable is about them.
Luke 20:15,19
“What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them?
16He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.” The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.
Then in Luke 21, Jesus is specifically describing the destruction of the the buildings that the disciples see
Luke 21:6
“As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”
All of these passages speak of the same thing: the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple because of the rejection of Christ. To say they speak of different things is to literally change the meaning of the text to fit a specific eschatology.
There are differences, new info is what I said. I never said they are not... the same conversations Jesus had with His disciples upon the Mount of Olives. Most of the signs Jesus gave in
Luke 21 overlap the signs in Matt.24 &
Mark 13.
Ok, so we are on the same page then. The olivet discourse given in Matthew 24 is the same as Luke 21?
If you don't believe that, then it would mean you don't actually believe The Gospel is even relevant for today.
The eternal gospel that Christ died, rose again, and ascended to the Father for the forgiveness of sins, to claim his kingdom, to be a mediator of the new covenant and all it's far superior promises (compared to old covenant), and the reconciliation of the Jews and gentiles into body (the body of Christ), is not relevant for today? I completely disagree, it is eternally releveant
When Jesus told the Jews that they won't see Him again until they see Him coming in the clouds of heaven, do you really think those Jews of that time saw that happen then?
Yes, as Jesus told many they would see it.
Matthew 10:23
When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Matthew 16:28
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
Matthew 26:64
“You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
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If you believe that is so, then why even bother to read The Bible, since it would mean all prophecies in it have been fulfilled back then and there's nothing left for our future?
That's just a really poor argument. The heavens and the earth are the Lords. while we are here in our earthly bodies or in heaven in our spiritual bodies, we are present in the Lords' Kingdom. Those of us who dwell on earth continue the work of teaching the good news of Jesus Christ, until we inherit the spiritual bodies and the heavenly Jerusalem the Lord has prepared for us.
Friend, "it is finished" and his grace will continue throughout the ages because of the cross. What a glorious thing. May the eternal Father be forever praised!
Ephesians 2:6-7
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7in order that in
the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
It would mean the wicked today still continue to do wickedness from now on, since it would suggest that God's Kingdom is already been fulfilled today and there's nothing more that will be done. It would mean what a lot of eastern religions believe, i.e., that for the world to exist there must always be both positive and negative forces, Ying-Yang, God vs. Lucifer, etc. Who would want us to believe that? The devil would of course, yet he knows he has but a short time, as written.
The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. Do not forget that before Christ saved us, we were separate from him, enslaved to sin and wicked. We shall continue to bring this could news to wicked and those far from the Father.
So if the Jews of that time didn't see Jesus' return coming in the clouds, then what time is that event set for? In Matt.24:33-34 when Jesus said, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled," what generation was He talking about, and what are "all these things"? "all these things" of course were the signs He gave there in Matt.24, the final sign being that of His return and gathering of His saints. Did that include the sign of not one stone standing on top of another? Yes, for that's about the final destruction to occur in Jerusalem on the day of His return. It's the "sudden destruction" Apostle Paul talked about that happens on the "day of the Lord" (1 Thess.5). All those things that generation was to see. That of course cannot mean multiple generations, nor the days of the Apostles, because their generation era is past already, and Jesus' second coming still has yet to happen. The answer is simple:
When we do not understand the language of the OT, we will misinterpret the meaning of NT language. I suggest studying the 'coming of the Lord', which happened multiple times throughout the OT
It has to be the generation of the end of this present world that will 'see' Jesus' second coming, because even today Jesus has still not yet come to gather His Church, which was the final sign He gave.
That is adding a meaning that is not there. Why did the apostles believe they were living in the last days/end of the age? Because Jesus told them they were.
The only other possibility is that Jesus' second coming and gathering of His Church already happened back in the Apostle's days. If that were true, then where are they today?
They are resurrected in their spiritual bodies in the heavenly city God prepared for them.
Hebrews 11:16
Instead, they were longing for a better country, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
Why hasn't Jesus gathered the rest of His Church then?
Are we not a part of the Body of Christ yet? Do we not go home to be with Lord up on death yet?
That kind of silliness raises all sorts of un-Biblical inane ideas, revealing easily that idea as a doctrine of devils.
Changing scripture to fit a paradigm is not the best way to study scripture. Try changing your paradigm to fit scripture
I explained that too. It's the generation that will 'see' "all these things", i.e., all the signs He gave there, including His second coming and gathering of His Church, which of course has NOT happened yet today. That's the final sign He gave in His Olivet Discourse.
So nothing the olivet discourse happened during the apostles generation
There were no rumors of wars? There was no false prophets? No earthquakes? No famines? No pestilence? No persecution? No temple destruction?
By that you should easily see the difference with 70 A.D. and the final Antichrist that comes at the end of the world,
Please provide scripture where Jesus mentions the Antichrist (not little 'a' antichrist) in olivet discourse
Your Galatians quote is irrelevant to this matter in Christ's Olivet Discourse. When the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem build their new temple in our near future, and start the old covenant sacrifices, that will not be our Heavenly Father behind that. That will be the unbelieving Jews behind that, simply because they reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, so they still... believe today they are under the old covenant. It has been the orthodox Jew's plan to re-establish the temple and old covenant worship all along with the creation of the nation state of Israel again.
I suggest looking up what happened when the Jews tried to rebuild the temple in 363 AD
so your arguments are now getting wildly speculative and meaningless.
Speculative? what have I had to speculate? history realizes, futurism fantasizes.
