Immigrants take over California.

Tallguy88 · Jan 21, 2018

SummerMadness said:
All Americans, save indigenous people and their descendants, are immigrants.

I'm not an immigrant. I'm a native-born American and so are all my family going back over 200 years.

Hetta · Jan 21, 2018

I'm an immigrant, but choosing to return to my country of birth this year because I can't stand it here anymore. Like many of those with whom I took the oath, I am an educated, employed, tax-payer. Even before I became a citizen I was all of these things, and every single other second-generation American that I know is all of these things too. I don't know anyone who is getting any benefits, and certainly not anyone "demanding" benefits. To my knowledge - and those with better knowledge can correct me - people have to build up their social security before they can obtain benefits. I seem to recall getting statements each year, after I arrived and started work stating that I did not yet have enough "points" to obtain benefits. Eventually, at some point, that statement said I had now accrued enough points. As I didn't need any benefits, I simply shredded that letter. So, if that is the case, how are all of these "immigrants" getting benefits ... unless they have been here for a significant length of time? In which case they are US citizens. Of course, haters (many of them old white men, sitting cozily on their pensions -- which is a benefit, ha ha) will continue to hate those who are not white, no matter how many generations their family has lived in the US, no matter that they have served their country, paid their taxes, and contributed to this country in many, many ways. Sucks to be them. Pitiful stuff.

Tallguy88 · Jan 21, 2018

Hetta said:
I'm an immigrant, but choosing to return to my family of birth this year because I can't stand it here anymore. Like many of those with whom I took the oath, I am an educated, employed, tax-payer. Even before I became a citizen I was all of these things, and every single other second-generation American that I know is all of these things too. I don't know anyone who is getting any benefits, and certainly not anyone "demanding" benefits. To my knowledge - and those with better knowledge can correct me - people have to build up their social security before they can obtain benefits. I seem to recall getting statements each year, after I arrived and started work stating that I did not yet have enough "points" to obtain benefits. Eventually, at some point, that statement said I had now accrued enough points. As I didn't need any benefits, I simply shredded that letter. So, if that is the case, how are all of these "immigrants" getting benefits ... unless they have been here for a significant length of time? In which case they are US citizens. Of course, haters (many of them old white men, sitting cozily on their pensions -- which is a benefit, ha ha) will continue to hate those who are not white, no matter how many generations their family has lived in the US, no matter that they have served their country, paid their taxes, and contributed to this country in many, many ways. Sucks to be them. Pitiful stuff.

Illegal immigrants can't get Social Security benefits because they don't have Social Security Numbers, unless they are using stolen ones. Using stolen SSNs hurts the people to whom the SSN belongs. Other benefits, like state welfare programs, can be easier to obtain for illegal immigrants.

Hetta · Jan 21, 2018

Tallguy88 said:
Illegal immigrants can't get Social Security benefits because they don't have Social Security Numbers, unless they are using stolen ones. Using stolen SSNs hurts the people to whom the SSN belongs. Other benefits, like state welfare programs, can be easier to obtain for illegal immigrants.

This thread is stated to be about immigrants - so why the "illegal" part of it came in, IDK, but the OP seems to be conflating the two. As for stolen SS numbers, I read that 1.4m illegals are working using stolen SS numbers. That's not even 1% of the population. It's still a crime, but it's negligible in the face of white collar crime.

Hetta · Jan 21, 2018

Tallguy88 said:
I'm not an immigrant. I'm a native-born American and so are all my family going back over 200 years.

But they still immigrated here, no matter when it was. My family traces its lineage back to the Gauls, who came to France in the years prior to BC. They have been in that region therefore for hundreds and hundreds of years, but they were still immigrants at some point. Perhaps it should just be accepted that humans are a mobile people, who settle in some places for periods of time.

Aldebaran · Jan 21, 2018

Hetta said:
This thread is stated to be about immigrants - so why the "illegal" part of it came in, IDK, but the OP seems to be conflating the two. As for stolen SS numbers, I read that 1.4m illegals are working using stolen SS numbers. That's not even 1% of the population. It's still a crime, but it's negligible in the face of white collar crime.

The link he provided in the OP is to a story about "sanctuary laws", which isn't something that is for those who are legally. People who have obeyed the law and came here legally (like you) don't need sanctuary.

Hetta · Jan 21, 2018

Aldebaran said:
The link he provided in the OP is to a story about "sanctuary laws", which isn't something that is for those who are legally. People who have obeyed the law and came here legally (like you) don't need sanctuary.

So why doesn't the title of the thread address state "illegal" and the first post overall (it only mentions "immigrants.") It's well known that the OP dislikes non-whites, and openly admits it, so I don't believe it to be a mistake.

Tallguy88 · Jan 21, 2018

Hetta said:
But they still immigrated here, no matter when it was. My family traces its lineage back to the Gauls, who came to France in the years prior to BC. They have been in that region therefore for hundreds and hundreds of years, but they were still immigrants at some point. Perhaps it should just be accepted that humans are a mobile people, who settle in some places for periods of time.

Sure, but my point was that I'm not an immigrant in the usual sense of the term. Not sure why the other poster brought it up as if it were relevant to the discussion of modern illegal immigration.

Aldebaran · Jan 21, 2018

SummerMadness said:
All Americans, save indigenous people and their descendants, are immigrants.

If a person is a child of an immigrant, they themselves aren't immigrants. If a person comes to the United States legally and has a child here, the child isn't an immigrant. Just as my own ancestors came here about 4 generations ago doesn't make me an immigrant. Neither of my parents are either. My Mom and Dad were born in Illinois. I was born in Wisconsin.

I could also point out that even the Native Americans probably came to America from somewhere else if they trace back their history far enough. Some think the Native Americans originally traveled here from Egypt. By your definition, they would all be immigrants as well. Even scientists don't believe humans sprouted up from different locations. We came from a single source, which according to the bible would be Adam and Eve. They were created in a single place, and their descendants spread out from there.

Tallguy88 · Jan 21, 2018

Aldebaran said:
If a person is a child of an immigrant, they themselves aren't immigrants. If a person comes to the United States legally and has a child here, the child isn't an immigrant. Just as my own ancestors came here about 4 generations ago doesn't make me an immigrant. Neither of my parents are either. My Mom and Dad were born in Illinois. I was born in Wisconsin.

I could also point out that even the Native Americans probably came to America from somewhere else if they trace back their history far enough. Some think the Native Americans originally traveled here from Egypt. By your definition, they would all be immigrants as well.

The term "immigrant" is meaningless when used so broadly.

Hetta · Jan 21, 2018

The term "immigrant" is used most widely, particularly by people like the OP, as a term of insult, with an intentional conflation between illegal and legal, and an open dislike of what is represented by the word. If only those brown people would just GO AWAY.

ViaCrucis · Jan 21, 2018

GoldenBoy89 said:
Surely you are aware Spanish has been spoken here since well before the United States was even an idea. Or did you not notice all the names of all the major cities in California?

Did you know that there are some folks in my part of the country that speak Klallam and Squamish? I mean the audacity of these people to have arrived here thousands of years ago and have their own culture and language before my white ancestors showed up and said "Finders keepers" I mean, really.

-CryptoLutheran

MrSpikey · Jan 21, 2018

MoonlessNight said:
The only way that you can say that America is a "nation of immigrants" is either to define "immigrant" so broadly that every modern nation is a "nation of immigrants" or alternatively to define "immigrant" to arbitrarily include every US citizen on the idea that even if they are part of a family that has lived here for 10 generations, that's not quite enough to not count as an immigrant in this case.

MoonlessNight said:
If enough "Americans," you mean.

So is 10 generations of residency the point when "Americans" become Americans? Or did you have some other definition in mind?

MrSpikey · Jan 21, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Pure "democracy" (voting) is often 'mob rule', which seems to be the case in California.

You obviously aren't keen on a system where the vote of the largest proportion of eligible voters on a particular topic decides the outcome.

What alternatives do you propose to escape 'mob rule'?

OldWiseGuy · Jan 21, 2018

MrSpikey said:
You obviously aren't keen on a system where the vote of the largest proportion of eligible voters on a particular topic decides the outcome.

Referendums are sometimes appropriate but their use often spins out of control and subverts the constitutional system of representative government.

MrSpikey said:
What alternatives do you propose to escape 'mob rule'?

Continue relying on the constitutional system, which is the basis of the American republic.

mark kennedy · Jan 22, 2018

just about every convenience store I walk into the cashier speaks with an African accent. I have been working warehouses for a few years now, every job there are Burmese immigrants on that job. I worked at a TOA, making Subarus. The workers were almost all Burmese and they worked like Hebrew slave, the plant was like being teleported to a third world country only in this case, they brought third world workers here.

When I was in LA years ago I would often here, that Oakie should go back home, invariably they were Hispanic. They were everywhere, chocking the sidewalks of every major city street in LA. When I was there they were saying 3,000 a day coming across to boarder into LA alone.

We've needed immigration reform for decades but no one is going to get serious about it because the lure of cheap labor to too much for cooperate American to resist. Did you know in order to immigrate to Mexico or Canada you need a 40,000 dollar investment? Maybe we should do that.

MoonlessNight · Jan 22, 2018

MrSpikey said:
So is 10 generations of residency the point when "Americans" become Americans? Or did you have some other definition in mind?

My point in picking that number is that its one that everyone should be able to agree definitely is a point where a family can't be reasonably described as "immigrants." The purpose of my post was not to define the exact boundary of when a family ceases to be immigrants, and I don't know how any reasonable person could read my post and think that that was the purpose of it. Rather, the purpose of my post was to argue that calling America "A Nation of Immigrants" was nonsense. To do that all I need are examples of Americans who are most certainly not immigrants.

As for how many generations it takes for a family to cease being an immigrant family, I don't think that there is a precise answer. A lot of it depends on additional questions such as: does the family attempt to assimilate into the surrounding culture? Do family members marry members of the surrounding culture or do they marry members of their ancestors' culture? How similar is the culture of where the family has emigrated form to the surrounding culture? In particular, does it share a common language or a common religion?

In some rare cases I imagine that the sons and daughters of immigrants could be members of the surrounding cultures. I suspect that the time where it happens for most families is the fourth generations. But it would be a different answer from family to family.

Ringo84 · Jan 22, 2018

Be afraid...be very afraid of brown people.
Ringo

MoonlessNight · Jan 23, 2018

Hetta said:
But they still immigrated here, no matter when it was.

And so did the "native Americans," most likely over the Bering landbridge. They merely immigrated at an earlier date. Therefore under your reasoning everyone without exception in the Americas is an immigrant.

(And that's without even getting into the migrations of peoples within the Americas both before and after Europeans arrived).

In fact, if we push this a little further, effectively every single person in the entire world would be an immigrant, unless they somehow resided in the exact location of human origins, and every one of their descendants had lived in the same place.

Such a definition of "immigrant" is absurd, as hopefully we can all agree.

SolomonVII · Jan 23, 2018

It seems to me that the definition of immigrant used in the OP article is more along the lines of "non-citizen". More than that, it is specifically about those non-citizens who are in California without proper federal authorization.
California has declared itself as being beyond the reach of American federal law.

Immigrants take over California.

We shall see the King when he comes!

I'll find my way home

We shall see the King when he comes!

I'll find my way home

I'll find my way home

NCC-1701-A

I'll find my way home

We shall see the King when he comes!

NCC-1701-A

We shall see the King when he comes!

I'll find my way home

Confessional Lutheran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Natura non facit saltum

Fides et Ratio

Separation of Church and State expert

Fides et Ratio

Well-Known Member

Similar threads