how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

rockytopva · Dec 20, 2017

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. - Matthew 13

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. - Revelation 14:11

I would not want to test these scriptures as true or an exaggeration.

FutureAndAHope · Dec 20, 2017

ClementofA said:
"O.K. so, how do you people who believe in eternal torture in fire, how do you tuck your children in at night and explain to them that God loves you but if you don't love Him He is going to torture you in fire, not for the length of your favorite video, not for the length of a day, not even for the length of a year but it will be unending. Mommy and Daddy will be in heaven while you writhe in unimaginable suffering because this is what God does to those who don't love Him."

"So how do you explain to your children about God's love? Do you tell them the truth that you love your children more than God does and you would never harm your children even if they don't love you?"

"There has to come a time when you tell them the truth, don't you think?"

"This is not sarcasm. It is letting those who believe in eternal torment come to grips with their beliefs. If they are honest with themselves they have to tell their children these things.
After all, we wouldn't want to sugar coat something so serious as a loving God torturing people for billions and billions and billions and billions of years without end, those who do not love Him, now would we?"

"And if your children only love Him to escape such a fate, what kind of hypocritical love is that?"

"As a child, camping out, I would ask my friends as we sat around the campfire and looking into it: "How can God burn people in fire for e--t--e--r--n--i--t--y?" No one would say a word. But it always bugged me. As I grew up and started visiting hell-fire churches, it was psychologically horrifying. It's like the people that attend those churches do so for the thrill of having the begeebies scared out of them. Kind of like thrill seekers. I was so glad to leave that behind and find out about God's love and plan for all mankind."

----------------

"Yep. People who say that they believe in Hell aren't remotely serious. If they were, they would be catatonic."

---------------

"I went through a phase where I strongly believed in ET. I lost my appetite (and thus a lot of weight) and was constantly anxious. It was terrible."

--------------

"That is indeed the seat of a LOT of mental health concerns many Christians who subscribe to it suffer; consequently, I can understand certain over-the-top reactions by some
supposed non-believers."

------------

"Basically Hell is a component in an intellectual construct that many people toy with in their minds. Nobody believes in Hell in the same way that I believe that I love my daughter,
that my mother loves me, that the sky is blue, etc."

Concerning 1 Timothy 4:10

------------------------------------------------

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

Hell is clearly described in many places in the bible, as a Christian there is no option but to believe in it. To not believe in it is to not be intellectually honest.

However hell is not a bad concept for humanity. I am a man, and a husband, the fear of hell has kept me back from many sins against my family and wife. It causes me to avoid sin, I don't use inappropriate content, and don't commit adultery as a result of my fear of hell, if there was no hell I may be tempted to do evil. This in turn has kept my family together, and is a great benefit to me.

People who try to disprove hell trouble me, as I know it is of benefit for man kind to keep them back from many sins.

As for my son, I recently introduced him to the concept of hell, it has not destroyed his life, he just knows that if he hurts people hell is a place he may end up in. I hope it will keep him back from hurting others.

Apologetic_Warrior · Dec 20, 2017

dqhall said:
God does not like torture.

How would you describe the suffering of Christ?

Doug Melven · Dec 20, 2017

mkgal1 said:
Actually.....I don't have to ignore anything in the Bible in order to disagree with your theology. I just look through a different lens (I see God as Love and benevolence).....so everything has to fit into that paradigm.

To see God as just love and benevolence is an inaccurate picture of God.
There was a day when God threatened to kill Moses for not circumsizing his son.
Then there was a man who was picking up sticks on the Sabbath and God said to stone him.
Then Nadab and Abihu put incense into the fire they brought before the LORD and He killed them for bringing strange fire.
Then Elijah because he felt offended called fire down on a total of 102 men.

Do these accounts sound benevolent to you?

TheBibleIsTruth said:
Joseph Prince should NOT be listened to, as he presents a false "gospel" with a false salvation! He teaches that "repentance" is not turning from ones personal sins, and asking God for mercy and forgiveness, but simply a "changing of ones mind", but not in regard to ones sins! Here is a prayer from one of his books:

"Lord Jesus, thank You for loving me and dying for me on the cross. Your precious blood washes me clean of every sin. You are my Lord and my Savior, now and forever. I believe that You rose from the dead and that You are alive today. Because of Your finished work, I am now a beloved child of God and heaven is my home. Thank You for giving me eternal life, and filling my heart with Your peace and joy. Amen." (Destined To Reign)

WHERE is any mention of repentance and sorrow of personal sins? Jesus Himself says at the beginning of Luke 13, "unless you REPENT, you will perish". When the Apostle Peter finished preaching in Acts chapter 2, those who were convicted by his message said, "what must we do", to which Peter replied "REPENT" (verses 36-39). Luke 24:47 says, "repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed" (as the best Greek evidence has it)

Prince is yet another false gospel preacher who peddles a "cheap grace" that will save no one! he also teaches that after becoming a Christian there is no need to "repent" of any sins committed during the Christians life!

If you look at the Greek word for repent, it is metanoia, it means change-mind.
Jesus said, "Repent and believe the Gospel". Repentance is not about sin, but it is about stop depending on yourself and depend on Jesus Christ.
John's baptism was a baptism of repentance according to Paul in Acts 19 and Jesus said it was fitting for Him to undergo John's baptism. If it was about sin, Jesus would not have had to undergone John's baptism.
If you listen to Joseph Prince you will find he is very much against sin.

mkgal1 said:
.....which is something that confuses me.

The same group that holds up teachers like this as "sharing the gospel" ....will argue against my views, presuming that I have an "anything goes" idea of theology (which isn't true). How is it missed that *this* theology represents just that (just say a prayer and you're in--no true repentance necessary)?

What do you believe?Do you believe everybody will be saved?
Do yo

Colter · Dec 20, 2017

ClementofA said:
"O.K. so, how do you people who believe in eternal torture in fire, how do you tuck your children in at night and explain to them that God loves you but if you don't love Him He is going to torture you in fire, not for the length of your favorite video, not for the length of a day, not even for the length of a year but it will be unending. Mommy and Daddy will be in heaven while you writhe in unimaginable suffering because this is what God does to those who don't love Him."

"So how do you explain to your children about God's love? Do you tell them the truth that you love your children more than God does and you would never harm your children even if they don't love you?"

"There has to come a time when you tell them the truth, don't you think?"

"This is not sarcasm. It is letting those who believe in eternal torment come to grips with their beliefs. If they are honest with themselves they have to tell their children these things.
After all, we wouldn't want to sugar coat something so serious as a loving God torturing people for billions and billions and billions and billions of years without end, those who do not love Him, now would we?"

"And if your children only love Him to escape such a fate, what kind of hypocritical love is that?"

"As a child, camping out, I would ask my friends as we sat around the campfire and looking into it: "How can God burn people in fire for e--t--e--r--n--i--t--y?" No one would say a word. But it always bugged me. As I grew up and started visiting hell-fire churches, it was psychologically horrifying. It's like the people that attend those churches do so for the thrill of having the begeebies scared out of them. Kind of like thrill seekers. I was so glad to leave that behind and find out about God's love and plan for all mankind."

----------------

"Yep. People who say that they believe in Hell aren't remotely serious. If they were, they would be catatonic."

---------------

"I went through a phase where I strongly believed in ET. I lost my appetite (and thus a lot of weight) and was constantly anxious. It was terrible."

--------------

"That is indeed the seat of a LOT of mental health concerns many Christians who subscribe to it suffer; consequently, I can understand certain over-the-top reactions by some
supposed non-believers."

------------

"Basically Hell is a component in an intellectual construct that many people toy with in their minds. Nobody believes in Hell in the same way that I believe that I love my daughter,
that my mother loves me, that the sky is blue, etc."

Concerning 1 Timothy 4:10

------------------------------------------------

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

My kids figured out that he'll is a fictional place.

S.O.J.I.A. · Dec 20, 2017

for the same reason I believe Jesus loves me..

redleghunter · Dec 20, 2017

mkgal1 said:
But those who believe in ET believe that it IS God who torments and tortures them (or, at least, created that system of "justice").

We still have to form our ideas of love from God, though (as He is Love). So....whatever is true about what we believe about God's love is going to be true about our human model of it.

I'm not thinking of those that are "wicked" (like you're describing) when this topic is raised. I actually think of the Atheists I know that haven't turned their backs on compassion and goodness......they've turned their backs on manipulators and the unfairness of some people being able to brag about how God answered their prayers to be cured of cancer while they (the Atheist) lost their only child.....the loving light of their world.....even after many sleepless nights begging God for their child to be healed. They see the suffering in this world and there's no good answer being offered to them as to "why". So....to make the claim that, because of their lack of belief in God, they are going to be tortured forever (and for them to continually hear that spoken of and towards them).....that--to me--only seems to further cement their disbelief (because it highlights the lack of compassion in a god like that).

I recommend reading my post again.

vinsight4u · Dec 20, 2017

vinsight4u · Dec 20, 2017

Daniel Martinovich · Dec 20, 2017

ClementofA said:
"O.K. so, how do you people who believe in eternal torture in fire, how do you tuck your children in at night and explain to them that God loves you but if you don't love Him He is going to torture you in fire, not for the length of your favorite video, not for the length of a day, not even for the length of a year but it will be unending. Mommy and Daddy will be in heaven while you writhe in unimaginable suffering because this is what God does to those who don't love Him."

"So how do you explain to your children about God's love? Do you tell them the truth that you love your children more than God does and you would never harm your children even if they don't love you?"

"There has to come a time when you tell them the truth, don't you think?"

"This is not sarcasm. It is letting those who believe in eternal torment come to grips with their beliefs. If they are honest with themselves they have to tell their children these things.
After all, we wouldn't want to sugar coat something so serious as a loving God torturing people for billions and billions and billions and billions of years without end, those who do not love Him, now would we?"

"And if your children only love Him to escape such a fate, what kind of hypocritical love is that?"

"As a child, camping out, I would ask my friends as we sat around the campfire and looking into it: "How can God burn people in fire for e--t--e--r--n--i--t--y?" No one would say a word. But it always bugged me. As I grew up and started visiting hell-fire churches, it was psychologically horrifying. It's like the people that attend those churches do so for the thrill of having the begeebies scared out of them. Kind of like thrill seekers. I was so glad to leave that behind and find out about God's love and plan for all mankind."

----------------

"Yep. People who say that they believe in Hell aren't remotely serious. If they were, they would be catatonic."

---------------

"I went through a phase where I strongly believed in ET. I lost my appetite (and thus a lot of weight) and was constantly anxious. It was terrible."

--------------

"That is indeed the seat of a LOT of mental health concerns many Christians who subscribe to it suffer; consequently, I can understand certain over-the-top reactions by some
supposed non-believers."

------------

"Basically Hell is a component in an intellectual construct that many people toy with in their minds. Nobody believes in Hell in the same way that I believe that I love my daughter,
that my mother loves me, that the sky is blue, etc."

Concerning 1 Timothy 4:10

------------------------------------------------

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

Your entire premise is balony. I would suggest a study of the greek word agape to start with.

ClementofA · Dec 20, 2017

TheBibleIsTruth said:
You quote 2 Peter 2:6 where "ashes" is used. But, it does not say anything of "non-existence" for those so burned? Speaking of the same event, Jude says, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after unnatural lust, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (verse 7), where the present tense in the Greek shows that 1000's of years later, when Jude was writing, there were still "suffering"! This cannot mean that they ceased to exist, as the language does not allow for this!

That fire of Jude 1:7 that burnt Sodom went out long ago. It wasn't "eternal" as some pro eternal hell versions mis-translate it, misleading the public. Likewise the same words mistranslated "eternal fire" at Mt.18:8; 25:41 refer to fires that are of finite duration, not eternal. Moreover since Mt.25:41 refers to the devil's finite punishment, his punishment of Rev.20:10, "into the ages of the ages", must also be finite, but is often deceptively translated "forever and ever".

The proper translation is important. Compare the "Interlinear" for Jude 7 via this site:

Jude 1 Interlinear Bible

The Interlinear there says it is not "suffering the vengeance of eternal fire", as some versions says, but the cities are "set forth as an example", "undergoing the penalty of fire aionion".

Similarly, a literal version reads:

7 As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen,
experiencing the justice of fire eonian." (Jude 7, CLNT)

"The destruction of Sodom and the surrounding cities is still apparent to all who visit the region. In this way these cities are experiencing the justice of eonian fire. The fire has long ceased but its effects will remain and testify to God's judgment until the close of this eon, after which Sodom shall return to her former estate (Ezek.16:53-56)" (Concordant Commentary of the New Testament, p.376)

"We likewise subscribe to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, who "are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7). This occurred many centuries ago. How poor a passage to apply to that which is thousands of years hence!"

"The word "set forth" is, literally, "lying before." The term "example" or specimen, is from the word show. These are readily comprehended if we apply them to the sites of Sodom and Gomorrah today. Their destruction was so complete that their exact location is in dispute. Now the preponderance of opinion places them under the shallow end of the Dead Sea. No one can visit this terrible desolation without fully appreciating the force of these words."

"But we are asked to forget this solemn and forceful scene for an "example" which no one can see, and which is not at all "set forth" or "lying before" us. We are asked to forget the fire (Gen.19:24) which destroyed these cities so that the smoke of the plain went up like the smoke of a furnace. The justice or "vengeance" of this fire is all too evident to this very day. It is a powerful reminder of God's judgment which should deter those who are tempted to follow a similar path. This fire is called "eternal." Just now the plain is covered by water, not fire. It was an eonian fire, as is witnessed by its effect for the eon."

"Speaking of Jerusalem, Ezekiel gives us God's thoughts concerning Sodom. "As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters." And again, "When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters...then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them...when thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate" (Ezek.16:48,53,55)."

"2 Peter 2:6 gives a parallel passage, where we read that God condemns the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, reducing them to cinders by an overthrow, having placed them for an example. This is perfectly plain, unless we try to distinguish between the cities and the people, and make conscious cinders suffer from flames beneath the waters of the Dead Sea."

"If the Sodomites were on public exhibition where all could see them suffering in the flames of a medieval hell, we might consider them as set forth as an example, but as no one has ever seen them, and no one can see them, they are no example at all. The cities, however, are lying before us as a specimen of God's eonian justice. The effects of the fire endure for the eon. When Jerusalem is restored, they will be restored."

(from A Reply To “Universalism Refuted” Part Seven)

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

Doug Melven · Dec 20, 2017

ClementofA said:
"Speaking of Jerusalem, Ezekiel gives us God's thoughts concerning Sodom. "As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters." And again, "When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters...then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them...when thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate" (Ezek.16:48,53,55)."

I wonder why you skip verse 46 of this chapter?
16:46
And thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters.

When we look at this verse we can clearly see that God is not talking about the actual city of Sodom.
But He is saying that Israel in this instance is Sodom and her daughters.

ClementofA said:
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

In verse 1 of this chapter Paul says that we are justified by faith. Not everybody has faith.
2 Thessalonians 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
In Hebrews 4:2 we see that the preaching of the Gospel must be mixed with faith and the Gospel did not profit those who fell in the wilderness because of there unbelief.

AACJ · Dec 20, 2017

TheBibleIsTruth said:
Surely the greater puzzle is the fact that the "flames" of these early Christians have almost gone out!

Not so puzzling, friend, considering the faith-destroying eschatology that has permeated much of western culture in the past 90 years or so. Most early American Churches adhered to a particular aspect of an eschatological model that required the evangelizing/christianization of an entire continent. A stark contrast to today's Church. What Christians are expecting will greatly impact their motivation for evangelism, and by consequence their effectiveness in changing a nation by changing its populace. Today....? It seems that maybe 5 out of 10 professing Christians believe in inevitable moral/spiritual decline in the nations prior to the 1 Thess. 14 event, rather than after that event. We can't expect positive change while also expecting moral decline.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 20, 2017

Doug Melven said:
I wonder why you skip verse 46 of this chapter?

In order for the enemy to deceive so many people, a lot of verses must be ignored or mis-translated/ mis-interpreted totally contrary to what YHWH means. Since false teachings, false teachers and false prophets are MANY,
and truth is few..... most are deceived.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 20, 2017

ClementofA said:
“Universalism Refuted”

See Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy ... ... ...
Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Malachi,
Matthew,
Mark,
Luke,
John, ... ... ... 1st Peter, 1st John, Revelation ....
Acts,
Ephesians,
Galatians,
Hebrews

for complete and perfect knowledge of YHWH'S WORD which shows
that 'universalism' as called in this thread is the false doctrine of demons and is directly contrary to all of YHWH'S WORD.

Mainly, Jesus refutes every form of universalism, so all His sheep go along with Him.

The groups opposed to Jesus go along with universalism, so don't trust those groups.

AACJ · Dec 21, 2017

Isa 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luk 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Ok, so my understanding of Luke 12:4-5 and Mat 10;28 is as follows.

The underlying Greek for “them which kill” can be used in the sense of mortal death (Mat_14:5) or spiritual death (Rom_7:11). The former is what is obviously meant in Luke 12:4.

The underlying Greek for “body” (used in both Matt. and Luke) refers to material substance (the physical body) not to man’s spiritual component. There is an obvious contrast here between what man can do to the body and what God can do to the body. Whatever it is here that the CHrist encourages His listeners to fear at the hand of God is far worse than what anyone could possibly suffer at the hands of man. This occurs after mortal death. So for example, a christian facing torture for the purpose of trying to force a denial of Christ can expect something far worse than the torture at the hands of men if he/she forsakes their Maker.

So being cast into Hell is even worse than one’s body being tortured at the hands of man.

Annihilationism is not an option since there is no accountability or punishment in non-existence.

Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

With no punishment after mortal death, then justice did no find the Rich Man (Luke 16:19-31). He literally had nothing to fear.

Apologetic_Warrior · Dec 21, 2017

ClementofA said:
"And if your children only love Him to escape such a fate, what kind of hypocritical love is that?"

True if only eh? I only love Him because He first loved me. Why He loves me, I do not know, I wouldn't love me. I was unlovely and unlovable when He called me to His amazing grace!

AACJ · Dec 21, 2017

Apologetic_Warrior said:
True if only eh? I only love Him because He first loved me. Why He loves me, I do not know, I wouldn't love me. I was unlovely and unlovable when He called me to His amazing grace!

You have mentioned unconditional love. It is a theme even in the O.T., of course.

Eze 16:8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD , and thou becamest mine.
Eze 16:9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
Eze 16:10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers’ skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
Eze 16:11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
Eze 16:12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
Eze 16:13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
Eze 16:14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD .

How can anyone say the OT is not still relevant to the NT CHurch?

TheBibleIsTruth · Dec 21, 2017

Doug Melven said:
To see God as just love and benevolence is an inaccurate picture of God.
There was a day when God threatened to kill Moses for not circumsizing his son.
Then there was a man who was picking up sticks on the Sabbath and God said to stone him.
Then Nadab and Abihu put incense into the fire they brought before the LORD and He killed them for bringing strange fire.
Then Elijah because he felt offended called fire down on a total of 102 men.

Do these accounts sound benevolent to you?

If you look at the Greek word for repent, it is metanoia, it means change-mind.
Jesus said, "Repent and believe the Gospel". Repentance is not about sin, but it is about stop depending on yourself and depend on Jesus Christ.
John's baptism was a baptism of repentance according to Paul in Acts 19 and Jesus said it was fitting for Him to undergo John's baptism. If it was about sin, Jesus would not have had to undergone John's baptism.
If you listen to Joseph Prince you will find he is very much against sin.

What do you believe?Do you believe everybody will be saved?
Do yo

So Joseph Prince says that a hell-bound sinner, who has committed the worst kinds of sins, like a serial murderer, or rapist, a child molester, etc, etc, can become a true follower of Jesus Christ, by simply "changing their mind" about God, or something else, and have no "sorrow" (change of mind and heart) for their sinful lives? If this be true, then he is seriously deluded by the father of lies, the devil! Are you saying that a sinner can become a Christian without any "sorrow" for their sinful lives? Do you think that God sent the Prophet Jonah, to one of the most wicked, corrupt and sinful people at that time, the Ninevites, simply to tell them to "change their mind" about him? Listen to the decree that was issued by the king, after the people had heard God's Message through His Prophet:

" Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God (GODLY SORROW FOR SINS); yes, let every one turn from his evil way (REPENT) and from the violence that is in his hands. Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?" (3:7-9)

And God's response:

"Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way (REPENTED); and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it." (verse 10)

And, Joel 2:12-14;

"“Now, therefore,” says the Lord, “Turn to Me with all your heart (REPENT), With fasting, with weeping, and with mourning.” So rend your heart (GODLY SORROW FOR SINS), and not your garments; Return to the Lord your God, For He is gracious and merciful, Slow to anger, and of great kindness; And He relents from doing harm. Who knows if He will turn and relent, And leave a blessing behind Him"

Ezekiel 33:11;

"Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live (REPENT). Turn, turn from your evil ways (REPENT)! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’"

And, Jesus' own words in Luke 24:46-47;

"and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem."

Here it is very clear that "repentance" is connected with "the forgiveness of sins", which is a pre-requirement for ALL sinners!

Acts 3:19;

""Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord"

Again, "repentance" is clearly connected with our "sins", and is required to have them forgiven!

Jesus' baptism had nothing to do with His personal sins, as He is sinless. It was in "fulfillment" of the Law of Moses, under which John the Baptist preached. Jesus, by submitting to John's baptism, both authenticated the baptism and ministry of John, that it was from God.

Prince, like many others, have perverted the Gospel of "repentance unto salvation", which is the central plank of the Holy Bible, and teach a corruption on how a hell-bound sinner gets right with God and is saved, which, they say, does not involve saying "sorry for my sins"! This is EXACTLY what the devil will have the Church teach!!!

AACJ · Dec 21, 2017

Doug Melven said:
To see God as just love and benevolence is an inaccurate picture of God.
There was a day when God threatened to kill Moses for not circumsizing his son.
Then there was a man who was picking up sticks on the Sabbath and God said to stone him.
Then Nadab and Abihu put incense into the fire they brought before the LORD and He killed them for bringing strange fire.
Then Elijah because he felt offended called fire down on a total of 102 men.

Do these accounts sound benevolent to you?

If you look at the Greek word for repent, it is metanoia, it means change-mind.
Jesus said, "Repent and believe the Gospel". Repentance is not about sin, but it is about stop depending on yourself and depend on Jesus Christ.
John's baptism was a baptism of repentance according to Paul in Acts 19 and Jesus said it was fitting for Him to undergo John's baptism. If it was about sin, Jesus would not have had to undergone John's baptism.
If you listen to Joseph Prince you will find he is very much against sin.

What do you believe?Do you believe everybody will be saved?
Do yo

You're right about the judgement of God. There seems to be an imbalance nowdays in much of the the Church between the God of love and the God who kills.

how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

Love to pray! :)

Just me

Pilgrim

Well-Known Member

Member

Dynamic UNO

Thank You Jesus!

Contributor

Contributor

Friend

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Please Pray

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Please Pray

Pilgrim

Please Pray

Well-Known Member

Please Pray

Similar threads