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Featured how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by ClementofA, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "O.K. so, how do you people who believe in eternal torture in fire, how do you tuck your children in at night and explain to them that God loves you but if you don't love Him He is going to torture you in fire, not for the length of your favorite video, not for the length of a day, not even for the length of a year but it will be unending. Mommy and Daddy will be in heaven while you writhe in unimaginable suffering because this is what God does to those who don't love Him."

    "So how do you explain to your children about God's love? Do you tell them the truth that you love your children more than God does and you would never harm your children even if they don't love you?"

    "There has to come a time when you tell them the truth, don't you think?"

    "This is not sarcasm. It is letting those who believe in eternal torment come to grips with their beliefs. If they are honest with themselves they have to tell their children these things.
    After all, we wouldn't want to sugar coat something so serious as a loving God torturing people for billions and billions and billions and billions of years without end, those who do not love Him, now would we?"

    "And if your children only love Him to escape such a fate, what kind of hypocritical love is that?"

    "As a child, camping out, I would ask my friends as we sat around the campfire and looking into it: "How can God burn people in fire for e--t--e--r--n--i--t--y?" No one would say a word. But it always bugged me. As I grew up and started visiting hell-fire churches, it was psychologically horrifying. It's like the people that attend those churches do so for the thrill of having the begeebies scared out of them. Kind of like thrill seekers. I was so glad to leave that behind and find out about God's love and plan for all mankind."

    ----------------


    "Yep. People who say that they believe in Hell aren't remotely serious. If they were, they would be catatonic."

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    "I went through a phase where I strongly believed in ET. I lost my appetite (and thus a lot of weight) and was constantly anxious. It was terrible."


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    "That is indeed the seat of a LOT of mental health concerns many Christians who subscribe to it suffer; consequently, I can understand certain over-the-top reactions by some
    supposed non-believers."


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    "Basically Hell is a component in an intellectual construct that many people toy with in their minds. Nobody believes in Hell in the same way that I believe that I love my daughter,
    that my mother loves me, that the sky is blue, etc."

    Concerning 1 Timothy 4:10

    ------------------------------------------------



    Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?
     
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  2. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    The living and holy God must think of "sin" as so inexplicably abhorrent, and sooooo horrendous that He did something as drastic as sending His only begotten Son to die "For US, ALL of us" to keep us from such a place.

    Thank God for His grace, amen?
     
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  3. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do you believe Satan exists?
     
  4. RC1970

    RC1970 post tenebras lux

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    Here is some of what Jesus had to say about hell.

    Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50 “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

    Mark 9:43, 48-49 “And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire…where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire.”

    Matthew 22:13 “Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

    Matthew 8:12 “while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

    Matthew 25:46 “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

    Luke 16:23 “being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.”

    Luke 12:5 “But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!”
     
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  5. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    first off the eternal torment you talk about is the consequence of sin therefore not an issue as far as teaching. For example I could ask you how you go to bed at night when you have to tuck your children in knowing that if they run out in front of a speeding car they will most likely die. It's a similar analogy. People who get all upset about eternal torment don't understand this simple aspect of what scripture teaches, so it boils down to a matter of teaching truth not lies like you have been taught.
    God's Love is just among other things. Hopefully a parents Love is just as well. IOW's let's go back to the above analogy...as a parent who Loves their child I would expect the parent to teach their child not to run out into the street without looking. In the same way, God's Love teaches us how to avoid being run over by speeding cars (aka eternal torment) [also not it is eternal torment not torture-God is not torturing anyone...hell is a place of torment]

    "There has to come a time when you tell them the truth, don't you think?"[/quote] that is why I corrected your misconceptions of eternal torment and God's love...because there is a point in time when you need to hear the truth of what scripture teaches.
    but see, that is just it...God does not torture anyone that is a lie you have been taught to dismiss the truths of God.
    I taught my kids to Love God for who He is...but that is another discussion all together. You are talking about the hell fire and brimstone crowd of which I am not and neither is scripture. Life is taught much more than hell in scripture and the church would do well to teach it in it's appropriate proportions.
    bet you and I could have a great discussion about God's Love...bet it's not what you think at least from a biblical standpoint.
     
  6. HereIStand

    HereIStand Regular Member Supporter

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    The idea of hell can definitely cause anxiety. The solution to this is not to explain it away somehow. Trust the warnings of Christ as @RC1970 posted them. Turning away from Christ words on hell may cause doubt over its existence, and ultimately disbelief in it.
     
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  7. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The issue is "torment", which is an internal grief that is self-imposed.
    You should certainly teach your kids about grief and torment.

    You know how people who die are sometimes considered that they "Ran out of time"?
    It's true, there is no "time" after death. Call it "timeless" or "eternal."

    If you reject and "mock" the Holy Spirit, that is the only unforgivable sin.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Perhaps you might not intentionally harm them. Truthfully, you can never
    be there with them at all times and they might get hurt by your failings.
    God loves them more and will be there even after their death.
     
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    No love is ever wasted.

    If - you are going to die
    Then - who you love is your option.
    God will still be there for you after you die.
     
  10. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Really good question.

    Right.....I don't even see that as "love" as it's coerced. Doesn't genuine love *need* to be offered freely and without coercion?

    ETA: I had to look up some examples from the Bible--

    “I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely” (Hos. 14:4)
    “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself” (John 10:17-18)
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  11. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The fire of self torment is hard to extinguish. Only God can forgive you for everything and ease your torment. It won't happen by itself.
     
  12. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    I think believers should be teaching those who are lost about the love of God and how badly He wants a relationship with them.
    I think the Pastors should be teaching there congregations about what hell is really like, so that they will have a burning desire to see people come to Christ.
    If we teach the lost that they need to accept Christ just to escape hell they will always think of God as judgmental when He is Love.
    Hell was never meant for man, but it was meant for the devil and his angels.
    But those who reject Christ will go there as well.
     
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  13. frettr00

    frettr00 Finding peace where I am

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    God is also just and if he says the appropriate sentence for sin is Hell then that's how it is. Who are we to say we know better than God?
     
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  14. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    A lot of what's often interpreted as the sort of eternal hell we're presented with in the ET theology is most often Jesus' predictions of the destruction of the temple:

    151. Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple and His Own Second Coming; Four Parables of Warning

     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  15. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  16. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    ....but the theology of ET has God actually *doing* the tormenting (punishing....not restoring). Doesn't the Bible say there's "no fear in love" and "love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment"? To my mind.....that means love goes beyond punishment.

    When you write, "God will still be there for you after you die".....are you saying you believe God allows for restoration *after* our physical death (if so....I agree with you on that). If not....can you elaborate on that?
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  17. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  18. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvn
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  19. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I agree with the Franciscan theology (particularly John Duns Scotus) that believes:

     
  20. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    --------->Jesus quotes Isaiah 66:24 and refers to gehenna as the place where “their worm does not die.” Critics of conditionalism often misquote or misunderstand the idiom as depicting a consuming maggot that eternally feeds upon but never fully consumes its host, and I had explained that quite the opposite is true. Similar to the scavengers of Deuteronomy 28:26 and Jeremiah 7:33 which will not be frightened away and prevented from fully consuming carrion, the worm “will not be prevented by death from fully consuming dead [bodies] … their shame is made permanent and everlasting by being fully consumed.”1

    Of course this image is only the first of two which Isaiah and Jesus use to paint their horrifying picture of final punishment. Just as the worm will not die, they promise that “the fire is not quenched,” an idiom that appears in a very similar form just a few verses before Christ’s appeal to Isaiah when he calls gehenna “the unquenchable fire” (Mark 9:43). Elsewhere John the Baptist says that God “will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12 and Luke 3:17). Traditionalists typically understand these phrases to mean that the fire will never go out, implying that its fuel—the unredeemed—will exist eternally, being burned forever, yet never completely consumed. But as we’ll see, this idiom is as misunderstood as its abhorrent parallel.


    Neither Isaiah 66:24 nor Mark 9:48 say that the worm will “never” die. If we were to consistently take “will not die” to mean “will never die,” we would make a mess of Scripture. Joseph tells his brothers in Genesis 42:20, “Bring your youngest brother to me, so your words may be verified, and you will not die.” The Lord directs Moses in Exodus 30:20, “When they enter the tent of meeting, they shall wash with water, so that they will not die.” Zedekiah says to Jeremiah in Jeremiah 38:24, “Let no man know about these words and you will not die.” Obviously Joseph’s brothers did not think he was promising them immortality; Moses was not assured that by washing with water when entering the tent the priests would never die; Jeremiah did not take Zedekiah to mean he would live forever by remaining silent.

    But we should probably give the traditionalist authors I quoted earlier the benefit of the doubt; perhaps their use of words like “never” and “eternity” is not misquotation, or a mere assumption that “will not die” means “will never die.” Perhaps, instead, they think this is the conclusion that is best drawn from the idiomatic worm’s assumed contrast with a worm which normally would die.
    ~http://www.rethinkinghell.com/2012/07/their-worm-does-not-die-annihilation-and-mark-948/
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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