Revelation 20:1-6 A Literal Kingdom?

DavidPT · Nov 21, 2017

eleos1954 said:
Parables are teaching lessons, not prophesy. So with that the teaching of the parables were applicable then are still applicable to today and future.

Luke 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

But if no parables can ever be taken as prophecy, in the parable above, a certain nobleman can't be taken to be meaning Christ, nor can went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, be taken to mean His ascension back into heaven(Daniel 7:13-14). But if in the parable the latter is to be taken to mean exactly that, what does that make this then? A prophecy, since Jesus spoke this parable before He ever ascended back into heaven, and that He literally ascended back into heaven at some point.

And what about the parable per Matthew 21:33-45 that has been brought up? How can that not involve prophecy as well? Seriously.

eleos1954 · Nov 21, 2017

DavidPT said:
Luke 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

But if no parables can ever be taken as prophecy, in the parable above, a certain nobleman can't be taken to be meaning Christ, nor can went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, be taken to mean His ascension back into heaven(Daniel 7:13-14). But if in the parable the latter is to be taken to mean exactly that, what does that make this then? A prophecy, since Jesus spoke this parable before He ever ascended back into heaven, and that He literally ascended back into heaven at some point.

And what about the parable per Matthew 21:33-45 that has been brought up? How can that not involve prophecy as well? Seriously.

The parables within themselves are not "prophesies". They by themselves don't predict future events. When Jesus is using parables He is talking to a certain group of people at the time and addressing certain "lessons" in the parable to those people that He wants them to know. Now can the parables contain spiritual teachings relating to other things in scripture that include prophesies, yes.

eleos1954 · Nov 21, 2017

DavidPT said:
Luke 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

But if no parables can ever be taken as prophecy, in the parable above, a certain nobleman can't be taken to be meaning Christ, nor can went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, be taken to mean His ascension back into heaven(Daniel 7:13-14). But if in the parable the latter is to be taken to mean exactly that, what does that make this then? A prophecy, since Jesus spoke this parable before He ever ascended back into heaven, and that He literally ascended back into heaven at some point.

And what about the parable per Matthew 21:33-45 that has been brought up? How can that not involve prophecy as well? Seriously.

Correction to a previous post.

Parables by themselves are not prophecy. Now can they reference or infer within them to other teachings that contain Prophecy.... yes.

The Times · Nov 21, 2017

PeaceJoyLove said:
And it all happens within us...what we perceive as reality changes...in the twinkling of an eye. It spontaneously (The Father's doing, not anything we can do our 'self') happens as we 'hear' the truth of the Ancient of Days. In Revelation, John says "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last..."

Becoming single of eye (Matthew 6:22), eyes opened to SEE the LIFE/Light that destroys everything of the flesh...then a lifting up/exalted (Psalm 37:34). A man is subject to elements of earth, a slave and the earth realm has dominion over man. Christ revealed (Paul said "the mystery revealed...Christ in you, the hope of glory"). Flesh (seeing) is an illusion (Adam's eyesight change in garden)...sight restored at the revelation of the son...clothed (again) in His glory...all internal truth being revealed by spirit - the process taking place within...

Be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (Ephesians 4:23-24)

Until we be converted we have a false sense of being...the old not yet gone to reveal the NEW... Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. (2 Corinthians 5:17)

ALTERNATE TO FLESH, it can be said that the mind is also an illusion and it constructs spiritually thoughts that lead it astray, even though it thinks that it is on the straight and narrow.

A pilot is turning his plane straight into the ground, yet his ear fluids falsely lead him to believe that he is flying on the straight and narrow.

The mind will always believe what the body tells it, for that is how humanity is hard wired and if a person tells me that a body is an illusion, then are they living alternate lives, or alternate state of reality, how many multiple personalities are within that person is my first question, because if one believes their body is an illusion, then what stops that person acting out all sorts of personalities.

On the contrary I see the body is real, just like the heavenly body we will receive after the earthly is no more, when the earthly physically dies. The being living in this earthy body needs a conduit to interfaces and express real and tangible experiences, in order to be deemed living, for those without a physical body are dead and those of either the earthly or heavenly bodies are alive, within different realities, where reality is constructed through what is interpreted through the interface. Paul called the heavenly, the 3rd heaven.

The claim of our bodies are an illusion is not true is it?

The Times · Nov 21, 2017

parousia70 said:
Lightening is a LOCAL event, not Global.

If youy live in Monterey California, you can't see a visable lightening flash frome East to west over Tokyo Japan.

Lightening also strikes horizontally and can be seen for miles. On certain planets there are lightening storms that can be visibly seen from satellites that completely engulf the entire planet.

The use of a lightening symbol is to highlight that when Jesus comes, the whole world will be engulfed by his brilliant coming. His coming is at the end of the world, when the books are opened and all Adam 1.0 life ceases to exist and a new realm is opened up for those who are raised in their heavenly bodies.

I compared this event to the light coming from a super nova or even a pulsar that will destroy everything in its wake. The point being is, that the author is trying to convey an event that will make the first earth and the first heaven dissolve at Christ's presence when he is revealed to his raised bride in the wedding super of the lamb of God.

PeaceJoyLove · Nov 21, 2017

The Times said:
ALTERNATE TO FLESH, it can be said that the mind is also an illusion and it constructs spiritually thoughts that lead it astray, even though it thinks that it is on the straight and narrow.

A pilot is turning his plane straight into the ground, yet his ear fluids falsely lead him to believe that he is flying on the straight and narrow.

The mind will always believe what the body tells it, for that is how humanity is hard wired and if a person tells me that a body is an illusion, then are they living alternate lives, or alternate state of reality, how many multiple personalities are within that person is my first question, because if one believes their body is an illusion, then what stops that person acting out all sorts of personalities.

On the contrary I see the body is real, just like the the heavenly body we will receive after the earthly is no more, when it physically dies. The being living in this earthy body needs a conduit to interfaces and express real and tangible experiences, in order to be deemed living, for those without a physical body are dead and those of either the earthly or heavenly bodies are alive, within different realities, where reality is constructed through what is interpreted through the interface.

The claim of our bodies are an illusion is not true is it?

Not our bodies...the carnal nature of the flesh...the state we were born into and why we must be born again/twice born...the flesh profiteth nothing, as Jesus said. This body is a container for the spirit. It is what is within that matters...the body when it dies will go in the ground and return to the dust.

1 Corinthians 2:16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

The Times · Nov 21, 2017

PeaceJoyLove said:
Not our bodies...the carnal nature of the flesh...the state we were born into and why we must be born again/twice born...the flesh profiteth nothing, as Jesus said. This body is a container for the spirit.

We were born into the Adamic carnal nature, that is the natural man, we are being changed or born again from that carnal nature to a spiritual nature, in harmony with God's Holy Spirit.

The earthly carnal mind profiteth nothing, yet the spiritual born again mind yearns to be one day dressed with immortality, so that it will dwell with Jesus in his Father's house of many rooms, which means the many different real and tangle realities, which is an extension to our reality, after and only after the earthly body is physically been put to rest, meaning it dies.

So our Spirit is being readied for another body, a heavenly one, that will be the interface to the 3rd heaven, where the dwelling place of Christ's bride will be.

Being born again of the renewed spirit in Christ is not to be confused with the second coming of Christ or the resurrection of the dead, the two are not the same. Firstly the spirit is renewed, then after the Adam body dies, we receive another real and tangible body not made from the Adam one, but one that is as real as the body that Jesus put on when he said handle me and sat down to eat to highlight the fact that he was not a ghost.

PeaceJoyLove said:
It is what is within that matters...the body when it dies will go in the ground and return to the dust.

Yes.

PeaceJoyLove said:
1 Corinthians 2:16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ

The context is the wisdom of God imparted to the believers and that is all this verse is saying. It says nothing about Christ's second coming and nothing about the resurrection of the dead.

PeaceJoyLove · Nov 21, 2017

The Times said:
So our Spirit is being readied for another body

Does scripture not say we are the body of Christ, individually and collectively? We are told mortality will put on immortality...which is a truth relational to our soul...to life in Christ.

The Times said:
Being born again of the renewed spirit in Christ is not to be confused with the second coming of Christ or the resurrection of the dead, the two are not the same. Firstly the spirit is renewed, then after the Adam body dies, we receive another real and tangible body not made from the Adam one, but one that is as real as the body that Jesus put on when he said handle me and sat down to eat to highlight the fact that he was not a ghost.

And Jesus wandered the earth for 40 more days after being resurrected...before being taken up to the Father...which is another truth in relation to our soul's journey/process taking place within...He also told Mary not to touch Him as he was not yet glorified....

I am not confused. He has brought me out of darkness and into His marvelous light...as promised...but not before great tribulation the likes of which I had never seen before and the darkest night of my soul...

Just as Jacob wrestled with the angel of the Lord from the dark of night til dawn, not letting go until he received the promise....that is a spiritual truth in relation to our soul. The physical body profits nothing. The glorified body is the spirit of Christ covering...the glory of God returned. The glory that Adam once walked in before the fall...when Adam suddenly saw himself naked and ashamed...God's glory had left him...he heard God's voice behind him (outside of himself for the first time)...being reconciled/restored all relates back to the beginning. Christ was from the foundation of the world. "Behold the lamb of God who came to take away the sin of the world....slain before the foundation of the world"....the time as man perceives is different from God's...

In the garden, the death that was placed upon them was spiritual separation from God the Father. Jesus came to reconcile us back to the Father. The second coming could be likened to truly being born again/twice born...no shadow of doubt...no imagining or thinking...but tangible, real and utter amazing truth of the plan God purposed in Himself from the beginning. Alpha and Omega, First and Last, Beginning and the End all relate to this truth of our soul journey/process taking place WITHIN. The flesh is nothing as it relates to this truth of who we have always been from the beginning...that which is being revealed in the glass...dimly at first...then face to face...HE will cause us to KNOW as fully as we have always been known...by the Father.

But you don't have to believe me...and I have no power to convince you for only HE can do it...and HE can only give us what believe is possible...I believed all His promises to be true and sought them...hoping for them. And at the last trump (God's voice according to John in Revelation) ...

Revelation 2:17 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Truth7t7 · Nov 21, 2017

PeaceJoyLove said:
Does scripture not say we are the body of Christ, individually and collectively? We are told mortality will put on immortality...which is a truth relational to our soul...to life in Christ.

And Jesus wandered the earth for 40 more days after being resurrected...before being taken up to the Father...which is another truth in relation to our soul's journey/process taking place within...He also told Mary not to touch Him as he was not yet glorified....

I am not confused. He has brought me out of darkness and into His marvelous light...as promised...but not before great tribulation the likes of which I had never seen before and the darkest night of my soul...

Just as Jacob wrestled with the angel of the Lord from the dark of night til dawn, not letting go until he received the promise....that is a spiritual truth in relation to our soul. The physical body profits nothing. The glorified body is the spirit of Christ covering...the glory of God returned. The glory that Adam once walked in before the fall...when Adam suddenly saw himself naked and ashamed...God's glory had left him...he heard God's voice behind him (outside of himself for the first time)...being reconciled/restored all relates back to the beginning. Christ was from the foundation of the world. "Behold the lamb of God who came to take away the sin of the world....slain before the foundation of the world"....the time as man perceives is different from God's...

In the garden, the death that was placed upon them was spiritual separation from God the Father. Jesus came to reconcile us back to the Father. The second coming could be likened to truly being born again/twice born...no shadow of doubt...no imagining or thinking...but tangible, real and utter amazing truth of the plan God purposed in Himself from the beginning. Alpha and Omega, First and Last, Beginning and the End all relate to this truth of our soul journey/process taking place WITHIN. The flesh is nothing as it relates to this truth of who we have always been from the beginning...that which is being revealed in the glass...dimly at first...then face to face...HE will cause us to KNOW as fully as we have always been known...by the Father.

But you don't have to believe me...and I have no power to convince you for only HE can do it...and HE can only give us what believe is possible...I believed all His promises to be true and sought them...hoping for them. And at the last trump (God's voice according to John in Revelation) ...

Revelation 2:17 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

It appears you deny a future literal immortal bodily resurrection of the believer as seen in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54?

eleos1954 · Nov 21, 2017

The Times said:
ALTERNATE TO FLESH, it can be said that the mind is also an illusion and it constructs spiritually thoughts that lead it astray, even though it thinks that it is on the straight and narrow.

A pilot is turning his plane straight into the ground, yet his ear fluids falsely lead him to believe that he is flying on the straight and narrow.

The mind will always believe what the body tells it, for that is how humanity is hard wired and if a person tells me that a body is an illusion, then are they living alternate lives, or alternate state of reality, how many multiple personalities are within that person is my first question, because if one believes their body is an illusion, then what stops that person acting out all sorts of personalities.

On the contrary I see the body is real, just like the heavenly body we will receive after the earthly is no more, when the earthly physically dies. The being living in this earthy body needs a conduit to interfaces and express real and tangible experiences, in order to be deemed living, for those without a physical body are dead and those of either the earthly or heavenly bodies are alive, within different realities, where reality is constructed through what is interpreted through the interface. Paul called the heavenly, the 3rd heaven.

The claim of our bodies are an illusion is not true is it?

You speak strange speak, I guess my question is: Where is Jesus in all this? If Jesus isn't in it ... then I dismiss all of it. It's all about Jesus.

eleos1954 · Nov 21, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
It appears you deny a future literal immortal bodily resurrection of the believer as seen in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54?

What is a soul?

PeaceJoyLove · Nov 21, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
It appears you deny a future literal immortal bodily resurrection of the believer as seen in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54?

1 Corinthians 15:52-54King James Version (KJV)
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Trumpet sound = God's voice Revelation 1:10

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Yes, this carnal man/nature (not physical body) we be born into the world with must awaken to the truth and put on immortality...lose our soul to find it (again) in Christ (and Him revealed IN US) ALIVE/AWAKE a New Creation...inside an earthen vessel...temple/dwelling place of God/

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Death swallowed up in victory! The spiritual death that came upon Adam is swallowed up in newness of life. The tent of flesh will still decay and die, but what is within it LIVES eternally (no end or beginning)...

I believe in immortal resurrection, just that it is not some far off, coming in the sky event. What you state is from someone who perceives Christ as something outside of your being. If He lives in you, why would He need to come from the sky to fetch you up? Spirit is spirit and it is like the wind...
John 3:8

Ezekiel 37:9 Then He said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they come to life."

Can you see the wind...?

Truth7t7 · Nov 21, 2017

eleos1954 said:
What is a soul?

The "soul" seen in Revelation 20:4 can also be seen under the "Spiritual" altar of the Lord, in the spiritual realm of eternity in Revelation 6:9, the "soul" seen in this account is the spiritual being of man

Truth7t7 · Nov 21, 2017

PeaceJoyLove said:
1 Corinthians 15:52-54King James Version (KJV)
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Trumpet sound = God's voice Revelation 1:10

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Yes, this carnal man/nature (not physical body) we be born into the world with must awaken to the truth and put on immortality...lose our soul to find it (again) in Christ (and Him revealed IN US) ALIVE/AWAKE a New Creation...inside an earthen vessel...temple/dwelling place of God/

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Death swallowed up in victory! The spiritual death that came upon Adam is swallowed up in newness of life. The tent of flesh will still decay and die, but what is within it LIVES eternally (no end or beginning)...

I believe in immortal resurrection, just that it is not some far off, coming in the sky event. What you state is from someone who perceives Christ as something outside of your being. If He lives in you, why would He need to come from the sky to fetch you up? Spirit is spirit and it is like the wind...
John 3:8

Ezekiel 37:9 Then He said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they come to life."

Can you see the wind...?

Do you also deny a future, literal second coming of Jesus Christ as seen in Matthew 24:30 "They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"?

eleos1954 · Nov 21, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
It appears you deny a future literal immortal bodily resurrection of the believer as seen in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54?

No I believe it, at the 2nd coming of Jesus, at that time the saved dead , along with the saved living Jesus takes them to heaven. The saved dead is called the 1st resurrection. We (all the saved) will receive eternal life in heaven at that time. All saved are going to meet the Lord at the same time in the air.

1 Thessalonians

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17 After that,we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

parousia70 · Nov 21, 2017

DavidPT said:
You're making this parable more complicated than it needs to be.

Not from my perspective.

Luke 19:12 He said therefore, went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

If in this parable a certain nobleman is meaning Christ, went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom is meaning His ascension back into heaven(Daniel 7:13-14), how can to return not be meaning the 2nd coming?

Who says it doesn't?

Isn't the chronology of events like such? Christ left heaven and was born of a virgin, thus the first coming. He then died, bodily arose, and ascended bodily back into heaven where He currently still is.

Does He leave Heaven everytime this happens?:

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

Truth7t7 · Nov 21, 2017

eleos1954 said:
No I believe it, at the 2nd coming of Jesus, at that time the saved dead , along with the saved living Jesus takes them to heaven. The saved dead is called the 1st resurrection. We (all the saved) will receive eternal life in heaven at that time. All saved are going to meet the Lord at the same time in the air.

1 Thessalonians

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17 After that,we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

My question was directed to "PeaceJoyLove" not you

, thanks for your view

PeaceJoyLove · Nov 21, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Do you also deny a future, literal second coming of Jesus Christ as seen in Matthew 24:30 "They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming"?

For some this is a truth that has already come to pass, though there be many more to 'see' it in the future. The truth is narrowed down to ONE...and that is what that scripture describes...that revelation within of the truth that we are...when we can SEE by the spirit of Christ within, mind of man cannot 'see'...

Man measures and divides the things of God, who is infinite and immeasurable. Jesus prayed for us to all be one...by the same spirit...

From John 17
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one

The Times · Nov 21, 2017

eleos1954 said:
You speak strange speak, I guess my question is: Where is Jesus in all this? If Jesus isn't in it ... then I dismiss all of it. It's all about Jesus.

Don't understand your question. Could you please elaborate.

eleos1954 · Nov 21, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Revelation 20:1-6 represents the Lords spiritual realm, there is no time in the spiritual realm, A Thousand years is a day " No Earthly Time" Thousand is not literal.
2 Peter 3:8, Psalms 50:10

In verses 1-6 you see 100% spiritual beings, in the Lord's eternal realm of no time.
Angel, heaven, devil, satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ, there is no physical earthly kingdom seen, none "A Fairy Tale Teaching"

Thats why this false teaching turns to the Old Testament, trying desparately to create a earthly millennial kingdom, "That Isn't There"!

(Example) Isaiah 65, Ezekiel 47, Zechariah 14, these chapters all represent the "Eternal Kingdom" not a earthly one.

This non-literal 1000 year reign is from the Lords earthly ministry to the second advent.

If a future tribulatuon saint dies one week before the second advent, he enters the non-literal 1000 year reign.

"Don't Be Deceived", A 1000 Year Earthly Kingdom Isn't Found In The Holy Scripture.

Matthew 24:23-27 Jesus Warns Against This False Teaching, Jesus Christ Will Not Return To Earth, And Hang Out With Mortal Humans.

"Believe It Not"!

Jesus Christ Is The Lord

Truth7t7

Well there's this:

Isaiah 66:22-23
(22) For as the new heaven and the new earth which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
(23) and it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Time? Never ending time.

As far as the word "soul" goes. In the Greek and Hebrew it translates it as a person, being. I don't believe a soul is some kind of "force" a person possesses rather it is what a person is. We have the breath of life from the Lord. If a human is unable to sustain their life here on earth with the breath of life which is from God (i.e. without machines) then they are dead and in the grave waiting for the 1st resserection. The breath of life returns to God.

A lot of people believe that when one dies they "go somewhere" or their "soul goes somewhere"(whether heaven or hell, of wherever) to me, to believe that takes on the tone of immortality and we don't get that until Jesus comes back.

Breath of life is the breathing power source from God that keeps us alive.

Example:
KJV
Genesis 46

26All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six;

Other interpretations use person or persons.

souls - person/persons

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