yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
No. It leads directly to destruction and spiritual death.
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Can I use a ouija board to communicate with God?
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ViaCrucis
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I for one am not asking you to believe that Jannes and Jambres had power in and of themselves. But, I do think we know 'where' they got their power of limited imitation from...and it wasn't from the Lord.
Can Satan create life?
"Then Pharaoh summoned the wise men and the sorcerers; and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same by their secret arts. Each one threw down his staff, and they became snakes; but Aaron’s staff swallowed up theirs." - Exodus 7:11-12
If they were capable of creating life by the power of the devil, then that is to say that the devil has power to create life.
That's a road of thought that I'm not comfortable with, and I don't think any Christian ought to be.
-CryptoLutheran
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It seems I should clarify:
I also was raised to understand ouija boards are not of God and to never play with hem (and I never have). For those fearing for me, fear not! I have zero plan or desire for a board or to dabble in anything occult (I'm a Jesus + nothing kind of guy).
When I first read Cassia's point I read it as the instrument is controlled by a person to honour God. The board isn't controlled by the person, so how do you know who (or what) is answering?
So is the litmus test "who is controlling the object" as to whether or not it's simply a materialistic thing used to reach God versus a demonic implement to be avoided at all costs?
I think the deeper question becomes "is the indwelling Holy Spirit greater than ____"? To which the next question (arguably) is "would Holy Spirit ever lead someone to use such a device?"
In no way am I discounting any of the stories here, in fact I believe them. But for those effected by the outcome, what did they understand about their authority in Christ?
It's a fascinating topic for me, as I know that I have all the power and authority as a believer, and I know I've been told that while I am to exercise that authority over demonic things, I'm not to provoke or be arrogant towards the demonic. I'm guessing participating in defacto or actual witchcraft would be provoking or arrogant - like a rich kid who says "if you touch me, I'll sue". He still gets the bloody nose and there's no lawsuit!
I realize this doesn't necessarily help us walk out our lives like Jesus. Thank you for indulging me and bringing some viewpoints that were absent from my conversation earlier today.
I also was raised to understand ouija boards are not of God and to never play with hem (and I never have). For those fearing for me, fear not! I have zero plan or desire for a board or to dabble in anything occult (I'm a Jesus + nothing kind of guy).
When I first read Cassia's point I read it as the instrument is controlled by a person to honour God. The board isn't controlled by the person, so how do you know who (or what) is answering?
So is the litmus test "who is controlling the object" as to whether or not it's simply a materialistic thing used to reach God versus a demonic implement to be avoided at all costs?
I think the deeper question becomes "is the indwelling Holy Spirit greater than ____"? To which the next question (arguably) is "would Holy Spirit ever lead someone to use such a device?"
In no way am I discounting any of the stories here, in fact I believe them. But for those effected by the outcome, what did they understand about their authority in Christ?
It's a fascinating topic for me, as I know that I have all the power and authority as a believer, and I know I've been told that while I am to exercise that authority over demonic things, I'm not to provoke or be arrogant towards the demonic. I'm guessing participating in defacto or actual witchcraft would be provoking or arrogant - like a rich kid who says "if you touch me, I'll sue". He still gets the bloody nose and there's no lawsuit!
I realize this doesn't necessarily help us walk out our lives like Jesus. Thank you for indulging me and bringing some viewpoints that were absent from my conversation earlier today.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Not only magic,
but "bewitching", if you care to find out about this, if YHWH permits.
It is of the devil, and the haunt of demons, wicked and deceptive...
Like idolatry and adultery and sexual perversion, wicked and deceptive.
The devil uses 'magic' daily , as well as 'bewitching' perhaps more frequently,
as most of the world is already swayed the way of the devil,
and
the enemy uses 'miracles' and other deceptions to try to deceive even the elect if that were possible. (it is just barely the righteous are saved)...
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ViaCrucis. I'm surprised that as educated you are that you don't see the graduated analysis that is set forth and qualified in the book of Exodus as to 'what' Pharoah's Magicians could and couldn't do. Moreover, I never said anything myself about the Magicians 'creating' life; that never came out of my keyboard. So, brother, take a breath and think the theology through a little more thoroughly. If anyone here can, you can.
Peace,
2PhiloVoid
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I think it says that God can overcome evil because He is more powerful.
What did Jesus say to satan when satan said God's angels would save Jesus from striking the ground.
"Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God."
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
It is always demonic in nature , origin and power.
Like conjouring up the dead(as if possible - as done by demonic deception pretending to be anyone who has passed on in life or death)
is always forbidden,
never acceptable to YHWH nor to any child of YHWH (Christian).
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ViaCrucis
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And when people who weren't supposed to touch the Ark of the Covenant did so they were knocked down dead.
But there's a difference between Almighty God and what He does, and what mere creatures can do. Do you believe that God has imbued ouija boards with His own divine power, or to be used to accomplish means to that effect?
-CryptoLutheran
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The drum is demonic or the board?
It leads to an entire series of what-ifs?
Obviously the tree was ok before it was crafted into a ouija board, and perhaps the same tree is also crafted into an instrument.
Is the guitar played by Marilyn Manson any more or less Holy than the one played by Chris Tomlin?
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Why are you asking about the devil's tools and methods ?
No what-ifs; it is all certain and destructive, forbidden by YHWH'S WORD, opposed to JESUS, and harmful (causing stumbling ) to any little ones seeking YHWH'S Kingdom...
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ViaCrucis
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If I am to believe that Jannes and Jambres were able to, by the power of Satan, actually transform sticks to living snakes then that is to say that Satan has the power to create life.
I don't believe that. Though I do believe that bronze age court magicians would be quite capable of stage magic and parlor tricks--smoke and mirrors if you will.
-CryptoLutheran
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I believe the cross reset the game, that the same power that raised Christ lives in me - so Ark of the Covenant type power is in me.
Do I believe God imbues ouija boards? No. Are they imbued at all? Good question (to which I don't honestly know the answer).
I'm realizing that at some level, this discussion is along the lines of "do guns kill people or do people kill people" (are ouija boards evil or are they just used for it).
There's no doubt in my mind there's an entire unseen world coexisting with us here.
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......no, it isn't to say that they created any life. What they did was simply transmutation. By contrast, in Exodus, it's the example of creating something as small as ... lice ...that shows the difference between the power to create LIFE and not having that power. As far as I know, that is the point of the failure of Jannes and Jambres to create an organism even as small as a lowly parasite.
Well....fine, brother; don't believe it then. Besides, I'm not really interested in hashing some secondary aspect of theology or demonology out with you, particularly since I respect you. Moreover, if we got into all that, we'd be here forever trying to pull out all of our sources and ...**ahem**... comparing notes.
Let's not do that.
Peace,
2PhiloVoid
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Sorry Jeff, I'm not trying to be obtuse, I'm just looking to clarify: are you saying both the drum and the ouija board are demonic? Or just the board?
The "why" is curiousity. We say a ouija board is demonic. Why? Because of how it's used? Because of why it's used?
What makes an implement (ouija board, drum, steak knife or a Chevy Camaro) demonic vs just an item? This is the hunt I'm on.
It's very interesting (to me) to see the responses here. I'm not trying to waylay anyone or cause anyone to stumble.
It's pretty evident in this thread that the resounding answer is "no, danger, stay away". I'm just fleshing out the "why". Which already includes "because my parents said so" and "it's purely demonic".
I'm in a good place here, friend.
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The whole premise of the temptation was to lure Jesus outside of God's protection
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The "why" will probably resound within Paul's admonition against Christian participation in pagan idolatry and sacrifices in 1 Corinthians 10:19-21. And Paul's admonition, which begins actually early in Chapter 8 and goes through the end of Chapter 10, reflects what is said in the Song of Moses, in Deuteronomy 32:16-18.
So, even though these passages in themselves aren't the sole sources we can refer to, Paul's reasoning is pretty weighty right here alone.
Peace,
2PhiloVoid
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