The Abomination of Desolation Revealed

BABerean2 · Oct 11, 2015

Revealing the Abomination of Desolation in the Parallel Gospels:

During the time of Christ, the Jews celebrated Hanukka.

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

He was well aware of the first occurrence of the Abomination of Desolation in the temple, when Antiochus Epiphanes set up a statue of Zeus (He had previously claimed he was Zeus) in the temple and had a pig slaughtered on the altar, during 167 BC.

Hanukkah celebrates the cleansing and rededication of the temple which occurred three years after the abomination of desolation by Antiochus in 167 BC.

Therefore, Christ was predicting a second occurrence of the Abomination of Desolation in the Olivet Discourse.

Several events could be a possible desecration of the temple during 70 AD. The Roman standards were posted at the temple site. Sacrifices were made to Titus at the temple site. Also, the behavior of the zealots within the temple itself during the siege is regarded by many as a desecration of the temple.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh(near).
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke’s account above clearly states that the desolation would be near the time that Jerusalem was surrounded by armies. We know Luke 21:20 is related to Matthew 24:15, because the same warning to flee is found in the next verse.

We know the early Christians did flee from Jerusalem before the final siege.

Lets take a look at the word “compass” in Luke's account...

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

(Compare this to the reference in Luke chapter 19 about being surrounded and having a trench made around them.)

(Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.)

(The Jewish leadership should have known the time of His visitation, because it was foretold by the angel Gabriel in the Book of Daniel. There was no excuse for them not knowing He was the Messiah. We also find a reference here to the temple being destroyed. This passage clearly connects the events of 70 AD to Jerusalem being surrounded. In the KJV the word "compass" is used in both passages.)

Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

(Compare this verse to what Jesus said to the women crying while he was going to be crucified. Both passages contain a reference to nursing mothers.)

(Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

Luk 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.)

(According to the writings of Josephus, during the siege of 70 AD some mothers ate their own children.)

Almost all scholars, including John Darby, agreed that the next verse is about the siege of 70 AD.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

This last verse contains a reference to a time span that would occur before the fulfillment of the next verse.

The time of the Gentiles will not end until the future Second Coming of Christ.

If there were a future Abomination of Desolation, it would be the third occurrence of the event.

.

Handmaid for Jesus · Oct 11, 2015

I thought Preterism was not allowed on this forum.

BABerean2 · Oct 11, 2015

Handmaid for Jesus said:
I thought Preterism was not allowed on this forum.

I believe you are confusing Partial-preterism with Full-preterism.

If you believe the temple was destroyed in 70 AD, as Jesus said it would be in Matt. chapter 24, then you are a Partial-preterist.

Full-Preterism says that Jesus is not coming back in the future.
It is considered heretical by many Christians and is not allowed on this Forum.

See the following link...

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...e-in-a-rapture.7889895/page-128#post-68712781

.

JM · Oct 11, 2015

BABerean2 said:
Revealing the Abomination of Desolation in the Parallel Gospels:

During the time of Christ, the Jews celebrated Hanukka.

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

He was well aware of the first occurrence of the Abomination of Desolation in the temple, when Antiochus Epiphanes set up a statue of Zeus (He had previously claimed he was Zeus) in the temple and had a pig slaughtered on the altar, during 167 BC.

Hanukkah celebrates the cleansing and rededication of the temple which occurred three years after the abomination of desolation by Antiochus in 167 BC.

Therefore, Christ was predicting a second occurrence of the Abomination of Desolation in the Olivet Discourse.

Several events could be a possible desecration of the temple during 70 AD. The Roman standards were posted at the temple site. Sacrifices were made to Titus at the temple site. Also, the behavior of the zealots within the temple itself during the siege is regarded by many as a desecration of the temple.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh(near).
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke’s account above clearly states that the desolation would be near the time that Jerusalem was surrounded by armies. We know Luke 21:20 is related to Matthew 24:15, because the same warning to flee is found in the next verse.

We know the early Christians did flee from Jerusalem before the final siege.

Lets take a look at the word “compass” in Luke's account...

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

(Compare this to the reference in Luke chapter 19 about being surrounded and having a trench made around them.)

(Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.)

(The Jewish leadership should have known the time of His visitation, because it was foretold by the angel Gabriel in the Book of Daniel. There was no excuse for them not knowing He was the Messiah. We also find a reference here to the temple being destroyed. This passage clearly connects the events of 70 AD to Jerusalem being surrounded. In the KJV the word "compass" is used in both passages.)

Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

(Compare this verse to what Jesus said to the women crying while he was going to be crucified. Both passages contain a reference to nursing mothers.)

(Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

Luk 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.)

(According to the writings of Josephus, during the siege of 70 AD some mothers ate their own children.)

Almost all scholars, including John Darby, agreed that the next verse is about the siege of 70 AD.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

This last verse contains a reference to a time span that would occur before the fulfillment of the next verse.

The time of the Gentiles will not end until the Second Coming of Christ.

If there were a future Abomination of Desolation, it would be the third occurrence of the event.

.

Preterism and Historicism have this idea in common. Do you have a quote from JND about Mat.24 applying to 70ad?

Thanks

JM · Oct 11, 2015

Nice work. Did you read JND on where the Rapture takes place? He admits it's just a guess.

BABerean2 · Oct 12, 2015

~STAFF EDIT~

Do you believe Hanukkah was celebrated during the time of Christ?

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

.

Echolipse · Oct 12, 2015

Hhmm....too bad at the end of Daniel it says to seal up the book till the End Days so it wouldn't be understood till then. We're in the End Days now, so why would a prophecy meant to be understood for the End Days be fulfilled before Christ's arrival on earth or within 100 years of Christ's arrival be fulfilled before the End Days and not be fulfilled at a future point?

Fyi, the book of Daniel didn't begin to become understood till around 1900ad.

precepts · Oct 12, 2015

BABerean2 said:
Do you believe Hanukkah was celebrated during the time of Christ?

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

.

Do you believe in God?

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Dan 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
Dan 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
Dan 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Now who do you suppose that could be?

Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Done by the Greek little horn, and no, he's not the antichrist in Revelation.

BABerean2 · Oct 12, 2015

Dan 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.
(Jesus is the One who made an end of sins.)

Dan 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.
(The Messiah would come at the 69 weeks after the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.)

Dan 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
(Jesus of Nazareth was and is the promised Seed, the Messiah, the Son of the Living God.)

The sanctuary built by Solomon was destroyed.

Antiochus Epiphanes set up a statue of Zeus and had a pig slaughtered on the altar in the second sanctuary, during 167BC.
The temple was rededicated 3 years later and is celebrated with the Jewish festival of Hanukkah.

The ministry of Christ lasted for 1/2 week before he was crucified. The Gospel was taken to the Jewish people for another 1/2 week through His disciples, up until the time Stephen was stoned.

The veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom on the day Christ became the ultimate and final sacrifice.
It ended forever the acceptance of animal sacrifices.
Christ became the mediator of a better covenant made on better promises, after His ministry of 1/2 week.

In 66 AD the Romans under Cestius Gallus surrounded the city of Jerusalem, but then left for some unknown reason.
The early Christians left the city and fled to Pella.

In 70 AD the Romans under Titus destroyed the temple and the city.

Who Confirmed The Covenant?
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

Daniel’s 70 Weeks

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/14-daniels-prophecy-of-the-seventy-weeks

.

Gideon · Oct 12, 2015

BABerean2 said:
... Hanukkah celebrates the cleansing and rededication of the temple which occurred three years after the abomination of desolation by Antiochus in 167 BC.

... Therefore, Christ was predicting a second occurrence of the Abomination of Desolation in the Olivet Discourse.

... Several events could be a possible desecration of the temple during 70 AD.

... If there were a future Abomination of Desolation, it would be the third occurrence of the event.

Some good thoughts as usual Baberean. So, what you have shown here is that there were at least 2 'Abominations' and I agree. Then your last comment adds, "if there were a future Abomination of Desolation, it would be the third occurrence of the event," and I agree with your logic there as well.

What we are seeing here, is an example of 'double fulfillment' of prophecy, and there are other examples of this too. However, I would like to ask, if a fulfillment can repeat once, is there any reason why it cannot repeat again? In other words, could there be a third occurrence of the abomination event?

BABerean2 · Oct 12, 2015

Gideon said:
Some good thoughts as usual Baberean. So, what you have shown here is that there were at least 2 'Abominations' and I agree. Then your last comment adds, "if there were a future Abomination of Desolation, it would be the third occurrence of the event," and I agree with your logic there as well.

What we are seeing here, is an example of 'double fulfillment' of prophecy, and there are other examples of this too. However, I would like to ask, if a fulfillment can repeat once, is there any reason why it cannot repeat again? In other words, could there be a third occurrence of the abomination event?

I do not see why it would not be possible.

Two Jewish temples have been built and destroyed in the past.

The Temple Institute in Jerusalem has already selected the priests to serve in the 3rd temple and their priestly garments are hanging in their closets. I have heard rumors that parts of the temple have been built and are waiting to be assembled.

If they restart animal sacrifices, in my opinion it would be an abomination, because the ultimate sacrifice of Christ has already been made. It would be one more rejection of God's Son.

The Sinai Covenant with Moses as the mediator has been replaced by the New Covenant of Christ.

Jer. 31:31-34 is fulfilled in Romans chapter 11 and Heb. 8:6-13.

It is finished.

.

Jipsah · Oct 12, 2015

Handmaid for Jesus said:
I thought Preterism was not allowed on this forum.

Orthodox Preterism is specifically allowed. And since the A of D prophecy from our Lord has obviously been fulfilled, then believing it isn't so much Preterist as simply true.

precepts · Oct 13, 2015

These are your words from the opening post:

"During the time of Christ, the Jews celebrated Hanukka.

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

He was well aware of the first occurrence of the Abomination of Desolation in the temple, when Antiochus Epiphanes set up a statue of Zeus (He had previously claimed he was Zeus) in the temple and had a pig slaughtered on the altar, during 167 BC.

Hanukkah celebrates the cleansing and rededication of the temple which occurred three years after the abomination of desolation by Antiochus in 167 BC.

Therefore, Christ was predicting a second occurrence of the Abomination of Desolation in the Olivet Discourse."

And your closing statement:

The time of the Gentiles will not end until the future Second Coming of Christ.

If there were a future Abomination of Desolation, it would be the third occurrence of the event.

BABerean2 · Oct 13, 2015

precepts said:
And your closing statement:

The time of the Gentiles will not end until the future Second Coming of Christ.

If there were a future Abomination of Desolation, it would be the third occurrence of the event.

....................................................................................................................
You are correct. That is exactly what I said.

However, you have added to it a claim that it must be a desolation of the covenant, which is not what I said at all.

As I just explained, the 167 BC event did not change(desolate) the covenant.

The 70 AD destruction of the temple did not change(desolate) the covenant.

.

precepts · Oct 13, 2015

BABerean2 said:
....................................................................................................................
You are correct. That is exactly what I said.

However, you have added to it a claim that it must be a desolation of the covenant, which is not what I said at all.

As I just explained, the 167 BC event did not change(desolate) the covenant.

The 70 AD destruction of the temple did not change(desolate) the covenant.

.

You clearly said there were two abominations of desolation, and making the covenant desolate wasn't the issue. The issue was your claiming there were two abominations of desolation, one in Daniel, and one you claim Christ was prophesying about in the NT. You were clearly distinguishing between the two as abominations when there is only one abomination of desolation as I pointed out, my point from the start.

Notrash · Oct 13, 2015

By the Roman armies being on mt olivet, they themselves were an abomi.ation of idolotry. 1000 Yrs earlier Solomon had made idols and alters for his various wives on Mt Olivet. This caused the splitting /dividing of he kingdom.

Now 1000 yrs later that act would be among the judgments of Israel through the idolotrous/pagan multideity romans.

All these things mentioned by Baberean2 could have been abominations including the romans.

My view is that the times of the gentlies were the 3 1/2 yrs that they warred against judea/ jerusalem.

Since there is no longer any distinction between jew/gentile, there would be no continuation of "times of the gentiles".

Some equate times of gentiles with "fullness of gentiles" in rom 11. They are not similar. Fullness of the gentiles was the filling of the believers of gentile countries with the truth/spirit - freedom of Christ in @35-65 AD which had been prophecied to make some of the remaining unbelievers of tgen israel jealous unto emulation towards faith in Deut 32:21 / Rom 10:19.

Pink Spider · Oct 14, 2015

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BABerean2 · Oct 14, 2015

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

.

ebedmelech · Oct 14, 2015

On this one BAB2 is missing the mark!!!

The abomination of desolation was committed by Antiochus Epiphanes IV. That which Jesus spoke in Matthew 24 was to the Jewish mind...which is why the text say "let the reader understand".

The point being the disciples understood the AOD occurred about 167 BC. Jesus looks back at that event to help the disciples understand that when the temple was about to be destroyed, it would be desecrated because the Romans who were Gentiles would enter the temple. It was their cue to flee Jerusalem.

To fail to understand this would be a lack of understanding that the temple was only to be entered by the Levites. Leviticus makes this plain. Furthermore, only the High Priest was to enter the Holy of holies once a year. The Romans entered both the temple and the Holy of holies (most holy place), and thereby desecrated the temple.

These things are not hard *if* one keeps the Old Covenant in mind. Even though God had left the temple upon Jesus committing His Spirit to the Father on the cross. At that time the Old Covenant ended and the New Covenant began.

BABerean2 · Oct 14, 2015

ebedmelech said:
On this one BAB2 is missing the mark!!!

The abomination of desolation was committed by Antiochus Epiphanes IV. That which Jesus spoke in Matthew 24 was to the Jewish mind...which is why the text say "let the reader understand".

The point being the disciples understood the AOD occurred about 167 BC. Jesus looks back at that event to help the disciples understand that when the temple was about to be destroyed, it would be desecrated because the Romans who were Gentiles would enter the temple. It was their cue to flee Jerusalem.

To fail to understand this would be a lack of understanding that the temple was only to be entered by the Levites. Leviticus makes this plain. Furthermore, only the High Priest was to enter the Holy of holies once a year. The Romans entered both the temple and the Holy of holies (most holy place), and thereby desecrated the temple.

These things are not hard *if* one keeps the Old Covenant in mind. Even though God had left the temple upon Jesus committing His Spirit to the Father on the cross. At that time the Old Covenant ended and the New Covenant began.

You seem to be disagreeing with me and then prove me correct in the same post by saying that the Romans desecrated the temple.

Maybe the difference is in how one views the 167 BC event, in relation to the warning that Jesus gave.

Did the Old Covenant end in 70 AD or did it end on the day Jesus was crucified?

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Joh_17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Joh_19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

.

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