The Great Tribulation

random person said:

One question for the Christians that believe the Tribulation is a future event...

Do you believe Christians have experienced tribulations throughout history?

What about today?

Right at this exact moment as I write this?

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Johnny Appleseed said:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation (Acts 1;6; Rev 3:10; Jer 30:7), such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
In six different verses this period is referred to as either 3½ years, 42 months or 1260 days (Dan 9:27; Dan 7:25; Rev 12:14; Rev 11:2; Rev 13:5; Rev 11:3).
The colossal scenes of the Revelation, beginning with Chapter 5 and the opening of the seven-sealed book, through Chapter 10 (Seals through Trumpets), form a prelude to worldwide commotion prior to the Great Tribulation itself described in Rev Chap 11-18. The Great Tribulation is identical with the last three and one-half years of Daniel's seventieth week of years (Dan 9:24-27; Rev 11;2-3). Unger's Bible Dictionary.
To date timeline start if 2017 is the Day of the Trumpet, then it would be in April of 2014.

Psalm 2 gives a good outline of this time period. Nations raging (v.2), derision of Jehovah (v. 4). It eventuates in the establishment of the rejected King in Zion 2:6) and the subjugation of the earth to the King's millennial rule (vv. 7-9), with a present appeal to Gentile world powers to be warned by the certainty of the establishment of Christ's kingdom (vv. 10-12). According to Rev 13-19, there will be the cruel reign of the "beast coming up out of the sea" (The Antichrist) (13:1) who, breaking his covenant with the Jews (2 Thess 2:4), will demand divine worship. This earth ruler, the Beast, is empowered by Satan, and the entire terrific episode of fighting God is made possible by the unprecedented activity of demons (Rev 9:1-11; 16:13-16).
The character of the period is clearly revealed in Scipture. It is a time of "wrath" (Zeph 1:15-18; I Thess 1:10; 5:9; Rev 6:16-17; 11:18; 14:10, 19; 15:1, 7; 19:2); indignation" (Isa 26:20-21; 34:1-3); "trial" (Rev 3:10); "trouble" (Jer 30:7; Zeph 1:14-15; Dan 12:1); "destruction" (Joel 1:15; I Thess 5:3); "darkness" (Joel 2:2; Amos 5:18; Zeph 1:14-18); "desolation" (Dan 9:27; Zeph 1:14-15); "overturning" (Isa 24:1-4, 19-21); "punishment" (Isa 24:20-21).
God will pour out judgment upon believing men and nations (Rev 3:10; Jer 25:32-33; Isa 24:1; II Thess 2:10). These judgments will fall both directly from God and indirectly through men and armies.
The nations proceeding out of the Roman Empire will be federated into a world power again (Dan 2 and &; Rev 17:12, 16-17). The head of the empire is known as the little horn (Dan 7:8), the Abomination of Desolation (Matt 24:15), the man of sin (II Thess 2:3), the Antichrist (I Jn 2:18), and the beast (Rev 13:1-10). This political ruler will make a covenant with Israel (Dan 9:27). The King of the North, also known as Gog (Ezk 38), will oppose him (Dan 11:40) but will be destroyed by the Lord upon invading Palestine (Ezk 39). With that strong power removed, the Antichrist will be able to control world government. A great religious system, centering in the worship of this political figure, will be promoted by the false prophet (Rev 13:11-18) which will become worldwide. At the return of Christ this politico-religious system will be destroyed (Rev 19:20).

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Biblewriter said:

We old guys might even understand each other, some day!

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iamlamad said in post 65:

I disagree: the last half of the 70th week will be 1260 days, or 42 months, but NOT THE DAYS OF great tribulation. Perhaps they could have been the full 42 months of the Beast's time of authority, but God said He would SHORTEN those days. They are shortened by the vials and associated plagues. We don't know exactly WHEN those vials will be poured out, so we don't know exactly how many days the great tribulation will continue. All we know is they will be somewhat shorter than 42 months.

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iamlamad said:

I have been thinking about Rome lately....I wonder why?

I understand the last beast of Daniel chapter 7 is ROME. But it is also a KING.

Well, all the other empires were destroyed or taken out by a new empire, all except Rome. Rome just got weaker and weaker, and finally split into the Western Rome and Eastern Rome, with Constantinople as its capital.

Daniel 7 does say that the ten horns are ten kings from this beast, but they could be from either the Eastern or Western half, or some from each. But the 11th horn that came up took down three of the others. In my mind, this 11th horn can be none other than the Beast of Rev. 11. Also in my mind, all ten of these are from the Eastern leg of Rome.

Any thoughts?

LAMAD

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random person said:

Well you're American, and I guess oblivious to the sufferings of your brothers and sisters under communism, Islamic regimes, etc.

The extreme persecutions, tortures, imprisonments, and martyrdoms Christians face daily around the globe.

Well they have already entered their great tribulation or is it they don't qualify because of our relatively rosy and safe existances in predominately Christian western nations?

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Biblewriter said:

I agree that the eleventh horn is "the Beast." You might be interested in this comment, written by Jerome on the fifth century.

"We should therefore concur with the traditional interpretation of all the commentators of the Christian Church, that at the end of the world, when the Roman Empire is to be destroyed, there shall be ten kings who will partition the Roman world amongst themselves. Then an insignificant eleventh king will arise, who will overcome three of the ten kings... Then after they have been slain, the seven other kings will bow their necks to the victor." (Jerome’s comments on Daniel 7:8, as found in “Jerome’s Commentary on Daniel,” pg. 77, translated by Gleason L. Archer, Jr., published by Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, 1958.)

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iamlamad said:

You had originally written:
One question for the Christians that believe the Tribulation is a future event...

I can only assume by "the tribulation" you mean the days of "great tribulation" Jesus spoke of. And in that case, "those days" (Matt. 24) have simply NOT ARRIVED yet. There has been "tribulation" all through history, because Satan became the god of this world by usurping Adam's lease when he sinned, and Satan HATES all people, but especially God's people. I was right in writing "Non sequitur." There is a HUGE difference in the tribulations of the past and what is coming: Jesus said those days will be WORSE than any other time in history, before or after. And they will begin at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week.

So are you going to turn the book of Revelation into nonsense as many others on this forum, by saying it is all history? NONE of the Trumpet judgments have arrived yet, and so NONE of the vials have been poured out. These events are in our future - NEAR future. "Those days" of "great tribulation" spoken of by Jesus will NOT ARRIVE until the SECOND HALF of the future 70th week.

LAMAD

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iamlamad said:

Good. Something we can agree on!

I see Daniel chapter 2 as a two fold prophecy; first as the linear history from Babylon to the end, and then as a picture of geography at the end, very close to what we see today, but STILL involving the land areas of Babylon, MedoPersia, Greece, and finally Rome. If we compare maps of these ancient empires, we see Babylon did not reach north to either the Black Sea or Caspian Sea, but did reach down, in a narrow band, to the Persian Gulf, and down to the Red Sea and a narrow band south along the Nile, so did not include Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, or much of Egypt.

When the Persians took over, their map extends north to surround the southern half of the Black Sea, the Caspian Sea and northeast to the Aral Sea and even as far east as to include Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and it seems even Tajikistan. NO OTHER of these empires went this far east. They also included Georgia and Azerbaijan between the two seas, and Bulgaria and Greece.

The Greecian Empire lost the 'Stan countries to the northeast, but added some of north Africa. The Roman Empire added much of Europe, but did not go much farther east then Israel, so lost Iraq, Iran, and all the 'Stan nations to the East.

I am CONVINCED that Iraq and Iran and the other 'Stan nations, all Muslim nations, will have a part in the end times. Therefore, the end times map cannot be Rome alone, by itself, because it leaves out Babylon or Iraq of today. This is why I believe, when John said "The seven heads are seven mountains" and "there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come," it is not speaking of Rome, but the seven ancient empires that at one time controlled Israel as a nation. Egypt would be left out of this, but Assyria should be included. The five fallen then, would be Assyria, Babylon, Median, Persian, and Greece, with Rome current with John, and Hitler and Germany as the one to come, but only for a short time. These are the seven. The eighth, as the Beast, comes later. Some people add Egypt as the first, and put Median and Persia together, But was there ever a time that Egypt controlled Israel once they were a nation?

Just my thoughts,

LAMAD

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Biblewriter said:

If that were true, then it would not be true (which it is) that almost every historian who is not a Preterist agrees that the Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian, with most selecting A.D. 94 as the most likely date.

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• Herbert B. Workman, Persecution in the Early Church (London: 1906).
• Firmin Abauzit, Essai sur l’Apocalypse (Geneva: 1725) ; An Historical Discourse on the Apocalypse(1730)
• Luis de Alcasar, Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (Antwerp: 1614).
• Karl August Auberlen. Prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation of St. John in Their Mutual Relation (1856 PDF)
• B. Aubé
• James Vernon Bartlet, The Apostolic Age: Its Life, Doctrine, Worship, and Polity (Edinburgh: 1899), pp. 388ff. (AD75)
• Ferdinand Christian Baur, Church History of the First Three Centuries (Tubingen: 1863).
• Leonhard Bertholdt, Htitorisch-kritische Einleitung in die sammtlichen kanonishen u. apocryphischen Schriften des A. und N. Testaments, vol. 4 (1812 -1819).
• Willibald Beyschlag, New Testament Theology, trans. Neil Buchanan (Edinburgh: 1895).
• Friedrich Bleek, Vorlesungen und die Apocalypse (Berlin: 1859); and An Introduction to th New Testament, 2nd cd., trans. William Urwick (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1870); and Lectures on the Apocalypse, ed. Hossbach (1862).
• Alexander Brown (1878)
• Heinrich Bohmer, Die Offenbarung Johannis (Breslau: 1866).
• Wilhelm Bousset, Revelation of John (Gottingen: Vandenhoeck, 1896).
• Brown, Ordo Saeclorum, p. 679. 50
• Christian Karl Josias Bunsen.
• Cambridge Concise Bible Dictionay, editor, The Holy Bible (Cambridge), p. 127.

• Camp, Franklin.
• Newcombe Cappe
• W. Boyd Carpenter, The Revelation of St. John, in vol. 8 of Charles Ellicott, cd., Ellicott's Commentary on the Whole Bible (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, rep. n.d.).
• S. Cheetham, A History of the Christian Church (London: 1894) , pp. 24ff.
• Adam Clarke, Clarke’s Commentay on the Whole Bible.
• Henry Cowles, The Revelation of St. John (New York: 1871).
• Karl August Credner, Einleitung in da Neuen Testaments (1836).
• Alpheus Crosby
• R.W. Dale (1878)
• Samuel Davidson, The Doctrine af the Last Things (1882); "The Book of Revelation" in John Kitto, Cyclopedia of Biblical Literature (New York: 1855); An Introduction to th Study of the New Testament ( 1851 ); Sacred Hermeneutics (Edinburgh: 1843).
• Gary DeMar, "Last Days Madness"
• Edmund De Pressense, The Early Years of Christianity, trans. Annie Harwood (New York: 1879), p. 441.
• P. S. Desprez, The Apocalypse Fulfilled, 2nd ed. (London: 1855).
• W. M. L. De Wette
• Johann Gottfried Eichhorn, Kure Erklamng hr Offmbarung (Leipzig: 1848).
• Dollinger, Dr.
• Friedrich Dusterdieck, Critical and Exegetical Handbook to the Revelation of John, 3rd ed., trans. Henry E. Jacobs (New York: 1886)
• K. A. Eckhardt, Der Id da Johannes (Berlin: 1961 ).
• Alfred Edersheim, The Temple: Its Ministry and Services, pp. 141ff.
• Johann Gottfried Eichhorn, Commentaries in Apocalypse (Gottingen: 1791).
• Erbes, Die Oflenbawzg 0s Johannis (1891).
• G. H. A. Ewald, Commentaries in Apocalypse (Gottingen: 1828).
• Frederic W. Farrar, The Early Days of Christianity (New York: 1884).
• Grenville O. Field, Opened Seals – Open Gates (1895).
• Hermann Gebhardt, The Doctrine of the Apocalypse, trans. John Jefferson (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1878).
• Gentry, Kenneth L., Jr.
• J.C.L. Giesler (1820)
• James Glasgow, The Apocalypse: Translated and Expounded (Edinburgh: 1872).
• James Comper Gray, in Gray and Adams’ Bible Commentary, vol. V
• Hugo Grotius, Annotations in Apocalypse (Paris: 1644).
• Heinrich Ernst Ferdinand Guenke, Introduction to the New Testament (1843); and Manual of Church History, trans. W. G. T. Shedd (Boston: 1874), p. 68.
• Henry Melville Gwatkin, Early Church History to A.D. 313, vol. 1, p. 81.
• Hamilton, James.
• Henry Hammond, Paraphrase and Annotation upon the N. T (London: 1653).
• Ernest Hampden Cook
• Harbuig (1780).
• Hardouin (1741)
• Johann Christoph Harenberg, Erkiarung ( 1759).
• Friedrich Gotthold Hartwig, Apologie Der Apocalypse Wider Falschen Tadel Und Falscha (Frieberg: 1783).
• Karl August von Hase, A History of the Christian Church, 7th cd., trans. Charles E. Blumenthal and Conway P. Wing (New York: 1878), p. 33. 54
• Adolph Hausrath.
• Hawk, Ray.
• B. W. Henderson, Life and Principate of Nero, 439 f.
• Hentenius. [secondary source]
• Johann Gottfrieded von Herder, Das Buch von der Zukunft des Herrn, des Neuen Testaments Siegal (Rigs: 1779).
• J. S. Herrenschneider, Tentamen Apocalypseos illustrandae (Strassburg: 1786).
• Adolphus Hilgenfeld, Einleitung in das Neun Testaments (1875).
• Hitzig.
• Heinrich Julius Holtzmann, Die Offenbarrung des Johannis, in Bunsen’s Bibekoerk (Freiburg: 1891).
• F. J. A. Hort, The Apocalypse of St. John: 1-111, (London: Macmillan, 1908); and Judaistic Christianity (London: Macmillan, 1894).
• John Leonhard Hug, Introduction to the New Testament, trans. David Fosdick, Jr. (Andover: Gould and Newman, 1836).
• William Hurte, A Catechetical Commentay on the New Testament (St. Louis: John Burns, 1889), pp. 502ff.55

• A. Immer, Hermeneutics of the New Testament, trans. A. H. Newman (Andover: Draper, 1890).
• Theodor Keim, Rom und das Christenthum.
• Theodor Koppe, History of Jesus of Nazareth, 2nd cd., trans. Arthur Ransom (London: William and Norgate, 1883).
• Max Krenkel, Der Apostel Johannes (Leipzig: 1871).
• Johann Heinrich Kurtz, Church History, 9th cd., trans. John McPherson (3 vols. in 1) (New York: Funk and Wagnalls, 1888), pp. 41ff.
• Victor Lechler, The Apostolic and Post-Apostolic Times: Their Diversity and Union Life and Doctrine, 3rd cd., vol. 2, trans. A. J. K. Davidson, (Edinburgh: 1886), pp. 166ff.
• John Lightfoot (1658)
• Joseph B. Lightfoot, Biblical Essays (London: 1893).
• Gottfried Christian Friedrich Lücke, Versuch einer vollstandigen Einleitung in die Offenbarung Johannis, (Bonn: 1852).
• Christoph Ernst Luthardt, Die Offenbarung Johannis (Leipzig: 1861).
• James M. Macdonald, The Life and Writings of St. John (London: 1877).
• Frederick Denisen Maurice, Lectures on the Apocalypse, 2nd ed. (London: 1885).
• John David Michaelis, Introduction to the New Testament, vol. 4; and Sacred Books the New Testament.
• Charles Pettit M’Ilvaine, The Evidences of Christianity (Philadelphia: 1861).
• Theodor Mommsen, Roman History, vol. 5.
• John Augustus Wilhelm Neander, The History of the Planting and Training of the Christian Church by the Apostles, trans. J. E. Ryland (Philadelphia: James M. Campbell, 1844), pp. 223ff.
• Sir Isaac Newton, Observation Upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John (London: 1732).
• Bishop Thomas Newton, Dissertation on the Prophecies (London: 1832).
• A. Niermeyer, Over de echteid der Johanneisch Schriften (Haag: 1852).
• Professor Nehemiah A. Nisbett
• Alfred Plummer (1891).
• Dean Plumptere (1877)
• Edward Hayes Plumtree, A Popular Exposition of the Epistles to the Seven Churches of Asia, 2nd ed. (London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1879).
• Ernest Renan, L’Antechrist (Paris: 1871).
• Eduard Wilhelm Eugen Reuss, History of the Sacred Scriptures of the New Testament (Edinburgh: T. &T. Clark, 1884).
• Jean Reville, Reu. d. d. Mondes (Oct., 1863 and Dec., 1873).
• Edward Robinson, Bibliotheca Sacra, vol. 3 (1843), pp. 532ff.
• J. Stuart Russell, The Parousia (1878).
• Salmon, G. Introduction to the New Testament.
• Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, 3rd cd., vol. 1: Apostolic Christianity (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, [1910] 1950), p. 834.
• Johann Friedrich Schleusner.
• J. H. Scholten, de Apostel Johannis in Klein Azie (Leiden: 1871).
• Albert Schwegler, Da Nachapostol Zeitalter (1846).
• Henry C. Sheldon, The Early Church, vol. 1 of History of the Christian Church (New York: Thomas Y. Crowell, 1894), pp. 112ff.
• William Henry Simcox, The Revelation of St. John Divine. The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges (Cambridge: Cambridge University, 1893).
• Arthur Penrhyn Stanley, Sermons and Essays on the Apostolic Age (3rd ed: Oxford and London: 1874), pp. 234ff.
• J.A. Stephenson (1838)
• Rudolf Ewald Stier (1869).
• Augustus H. Strong, Systematic Theology (Old Tappan: 1907, p. 1010).
• Moses Stuart, Commentary on the Apocalypse, 2 vols. (Andover: 1845).
• Swegler.
• Milton S. Terry, Biblical Hermeneutics, p. 467.
• Thiersch, Die Kirche im apostolischm Zeitalter.
• Friedrich August Gottreu Tholuck, Commentary on the Gospel of John (1827).
• Tillich, Introduction to the New Testament.
• Gustav Volkmar, Conmentur zur 0fienbarung (Zurich: 1862).
• Foy E. Wallace, Jr., The Book of Revelation (Nashville: by the author, 1966) .
• Israel P Warren (1878)
• Bernhard Weiss, Die Johannes-Apokalypse. Textkritische Untersuchungen und Textherstellung (Leipsig, 1891).
• Brooke Foss Westcott, The Gospel According to St. John (Grand Rapids: 1882).
• J. J. Wetstein, New Testament Graecum, vol. 2 (Amsterdam: 1752).
• Karl Wieseler, Zur Auslegung und Kritik der Apok. Literatur (Gottingen: 1839).
• Charles Wordsworth, The New Testament, vol. 2 (London: 1864).
• Robert Young, Commentary on the Book of Revelation (1885)
• C. F. J. Zullig, Die Ofienbamng Johannis erklarten (Stuttgart: 1852).

parousia70 said:

Continuing.........

• A. Immer, Hermeneutics of the New Testament, trans. A. H. Newman (Andover: Draper, 1890).
• Theodor Keim, Rom und das Christenthum.
• Theodor Koppe, History of Jesus of Nazareth, 2nd cd., trans. Arthur Ransom (London: William and Norgate, 1883).
• Max Krenkel, Der Apostel Johannes (Leipzig: 1871).
• Johann Heinrich Kurtz, Church History, 9th cd., trans. John McPherson (3 vols. in 1) (New York: Funk and Wagnalls, 1888), pp. 41ff.
• Victor Lechler, The Apostolic and Post-Apostolic Times: Their Diversity and Union Life and Doctrine, 3rd cd., vol. 2, trans. A. J. K. Davidson, (Edinburgh: 1886), pp. 166ff.
• John Lightfoot (1658)
• Joseph B. Lightfoot, Biblical Essays (London: 1893).
• Gottfried Christian Friedrich Lücke, Versuch einer vollstandigen Einleitung in die Offenbarung Johannis, (Bonn: 1852).
• Christoph Ernst Luthardt, Die Offenbarung Johannis (Leipzig: 1861).
• James M. Macdonald, The Life and Writings of St. John (London: 1877).
• Frederick Denisen Maurice, Lectures on the Apocalypse, 2nd ed. (London: 1885).
• John David Michaelis, Introduction to the New Testament, vol. 4; and Sacred Books the New Testament.
• Charles Pettit M’Ilvaine, The Evidences of Christianity (Philadelphia: 1861).
• Theodor Mommsen, Roman History, vol. 5.
• John Augustus Wilhelm Neander, The History of the Planting and Training of the Christian Church by the Apostles, trans. J. E. Ryland (Philadelphia: James M. Campbell, 1844), pp. 223ff.
• Sir Isaac Newton, Observation Upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John (London: 1732).
• Bishop Thomas Newton, Dissertation on the Prophecies (London: 1832).
• A. Niermeyer, Over de echteid der Johanneisch Schriften (Haag: 1852).
• Professor Nehemiah A. Nisbett
• Alfred Plummer (1891).
• Dean Plumptere (1877)
• Edward Hayes Plumtree, A Popular Exposition of the Epistles to the Seven Churches of Asia, 2nd ed. (London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1879).
• Ernest Renan, L’Antechrist (Paris: 1871).
• Eduard Wilhelm Eugen Reuss, History of the Sacred Scriptures of the New Testament (Edinburgh: T. &T. Clark, 1884).
• Jean Reville, Reu. d. d. Mondes (Oct., 1863 and Dec., 1873).
• Edward Robinson, Bibliotheca Sacra, vol. 3 (1843), pp. 532ff.
• J. Stuart Russell, The Parousia (1878).
• Salmon, G. Introduction to the New Testament.
• Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, 3rd cd., vol. 1: Apostolic Christianity (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, [1910] 1950), p. 834.
• Johann Friedrich Schleusner.
• J. H. Scholten, de Apostel Johannis in Klein Azie (Leiden: 1871).
• Albert Schwegler, Da Nachapostol Zeitalter (1846).
• Henry C. Sheldon, The Early Church, vol. 1 of History of the Christian Church (New York: Thomas Y. Crowell, 1894), pp. 112ff.
• William Henry Simcox, The Revelation of St. John Divine. The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges (Cambridge: Cambridge University, 1893).
• Arthur Penrhyn Stanley, Sermons and Essays on the Apostolic Age (3rd ed: Oxford and London: 1874), pp. 234ff.
• J.A. Stephenson (1838)
• Rudolf Ewald Stier (1869).
• Augustus H. Strong, Systematic Theology (Old Tappan: 1907, p. 1010).
• Moses Stuart, Commentary on the Apocalypse, 2 vols. (Andover: 1845).
• Swegler.
• Milton S. Terry, Biblical Hermeneutics, p. 467.
• Thiersch, Die Kirche im apostolischm Zeitalter.
• Friedrich August Gottreu Tholuck, Commentary on the Gospel of John (1827).
• Tillich, Introduction to the New Testament.
• Gustav Volkmar, Conmentur zur 0fienbarung (Zurich: 1862).
• Foy E. Wallace, Jr., The Book of Revelation (Nashville: by the author, 1966) .
• Israel P Warren (1878)
• Bernhard Weiss, Die Johannes-Apokalypse. Textkritische Untersuchungen und Textherstellung (Leipsig, 1891).
• Brooke Foss Westcott, The Gospel According to St. John (Grand Rapids: 1882).
• J. J. Wetstein, New Testament Graecum, vol. 2 (Amsterdam: 1752).
• Karl Wieseler, Zur Auslegung und Kritik der Apok. Literatur (Gottingen: 1839).
• Charles Wordsworth, The New Testament, vol. 2 (London: 1864).
• Robert Young, Commentary on the Book of Revelation (1885)
• C. F. J. Zullig, Die Ofienbamng Johannis erklarten (Stuttgart: 1852).

I just listed around 150 published scholars from the past few hundred years, MOST of whom are NOT preterists, who adhere to the pre 70 AD date for the Revelation.

Now it's your turn.
Show us YOUR list of the Late Daters.... you should be able to present THOUSANDS of them if what you claimed above is true....

Click to expand...