Persecution

Gregory Thompson · Jul 18, 2013

If persecution comes .. i don't think it will be because people were proclaiming the gospel . but acting in a manner deserving of persecution regardless of religious protection laws .

i.e. the persecution complex that is common in western christians is unfounded as there is no real persecution like the beginning faith .

ChrisHolland619 · Jul 18, 2013

The men and women who are murdered and jailed today in certain middle eastern countries just because they are Christian are most definitely a victim of biblical persecution.

seeingeyes · Jul 18, 2013

Michael Collum said:
If persecution comes .. i don't think it will be because people were proclaiming the gospel . but acting in a manner deserving of persecution regardless of religious protection laws .

i.e. the persecution complex that is common in western christians is unfounded as there is no real persecution like the beginning faith .

"For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly." (1 Peter 2)

Gregory Thompson · Jul 18, 2013

ChrisHolland619 said:
The men and women who are murdered and jailed today in certain middle eastern countries just because they are Christian are most definitely a victim of biblical persecution.

i would agree, and those are not western countries .

seeingeyes said:
"For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly." (1 Peter 2)

thanks

Pteriax · Jul 18, 2013

Michael Collum said:
i would agree, and those are not western countries .

Or the Christians murdered (beheaded actually) by a certain type of religious extremist in England and New York this year? How about the two street ministers who were beaten within an inch of their lives in California and Texas last month? It happens all the time in western countries. Our (USA) media is just too liberal to bother reporting it unless a white guy hits a black guy.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 18, 2013

Michael Collum said:
If persecution comes .. i don't think it will be because people were proclaiming the gospel . but acting in a manner deserving of persecution regardless of religious protection laws .

i.e. the persecution complex that is common in western christians is unfounded as there is no real persecution like the beginning faith .

It was also prevalent in the days of Jesus and Paul...........

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS VS THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G1377 matches the Greek διώκω (diōkō), which occurs 45 times in 44 verses in the Greek concordance

Mat 23:34
Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify,
and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town

John 5:16
And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath.

.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 18, 2013

Pteriax said:
Or the Christians murdered (beheaded actually) by a certain type of religious extremist in England and New York this year? How about the two street ministers who were beaten within an inch of their lives in California and Texas last month? It happens all the time in western countries. Our (USA) media is just too liberal to bother reporting it unless a white guy hits a black guy.

could you post articles qualifying it was religiously motivated? we can't assume just because they were Christians that this is the case . but i'm talking about needing to hide because the government opposes your religion to the point of execution for non-compliance . that isn't happening in the US .

if the religious expression was not rooted in the main tenant that all the law and the prophets hang on .. then it doesn't really count as the 2nd Peter passage that was quoted earlier illustrates . if you're beaten up for being a jerk . it doesn't count as persecution

Gregory Thompson · Jul 18, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
It was also prevalent in the days of Jesus and Paul...........

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS VS THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G1377 matches the Greek διώκω (diōkō), which occurs 45 times in 44 verses in the Greek concordance

oh yes .. great is Diana of the Ephesians also .

Pteriax · Jul 18, 2013

Michael Collum said:
could you post articles qualifying it was religiously motivated? we can't assume just because they were Christians that this is the case . but i'm talking about needing to hide because the government opposes your religion to the point of execution for non-compliance . that isn't happening in the US .

if the religious expression was not rooted in the main tenant that all the law and the prophets hang on .. then it doesn't really could as the 2nd Peter passage that was quoted earlier illustrates . if you're beaten up for being a jerk . it doesn't count as persecution

I'm not assuming at all. It was verified by witnesses and the attackers in all the cases. The street ministers were beaten by mobs for preaching the gospel, as was Paul in Acts. The beheadings were religiously motivated as well, I shouldn't have to mention what religion did that or why. And it will happen in the US in my lifetime. I am seeing religious freedoms going down the drain daily, and tolerance for all religions except Christianity, we are the enemy. The examples I just gave are the most violent, but there has been a rising tide of persecution of Christianity and Christians in the US for at least two years now (that I am aware of). There are a lot of articles, just google it. Watch out for liberal media interpretations of the events though - Christians are always demonized my the mainstream media as well. I am genuinely afraid for people in the US now, and things are getting worse every day, not better. I have seen it. I'm a bit surprised if you have not.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 18, 2013

Pteriax said:
I'm not assuming at all. It was verified by witnesses and the attackers in all the cases. The street ministers were beaten by mobs for preaching the gospel, as was Paul in Acts. The beheadings were religiously motivated as well, I shouldn't have to mention what religion did that or why. And it will happen in the US in my lifetime. I am seeing religious freedoms going down the drain daily, and tolerance for all religions except Christianity, we are the enemy. The examples I just gave are the most violent, but there has been a rising tide of persecution of Christianity and Christians in the US for at least two years now (that I am aware of). There are a lot of articles, just google it. Watch out for liberal media interpretations of the events though - Christians are always demonized my the mainstream media as well. I am genuinely afraid for people in the US now, and things are getting worse every day, not better. I have seen it. I'm a bit surprised if you have not.

My understanding of god is more love centred as the bible defines it .

the law oriented versions of the religion have been having a hard time of it it seems .

Pteriax · Jul 18, 2013

Michael Collum said:
My understanding of god is more love centred as the bible defines it .

the law oriented versions of the religion have been having a hard time of it it seems .

Who are you accusing of legalism?

Gregory Thompson · Jul 18, 2013

Pteriax said:
Who are you accusing of legalism?

hmmm should i rephrase as say "rule oriented" or "text oriented"?

i mean how you took it would be true for a lot of Christians sects today even evidenced by the way church history has mimicked the histories of the people of the law and prophets age, but that wasn't my intention per se .

what you're observing now is the mimicking of Judah being carried away into babylon .

but i'm on a different spiritual premise . so it doesn't affect me as much . but it does affect my ministry field

Pteriax · Jul 18, 2013

Michael Collum said:
hmmm should i rephrase as say "rule oriented" or "text oriented"?

i mean how you took it would be true for a lot of Christians sects today even evidenced by the way church history has mimicked the histories of the people of the law and prophets age, but that wasn't my intention per se .

what you're observing now is the mimicking of Judah being carried away into babylon .

but i'm on a different spiritual premise . so it doesn't affect me as much . but it does affect my ministry field

I don't think it is fair to assume that about Christians who are being physically assaulted in the streets while having their rights stripped away one by one. I have known someone it happened to, and they were all about Christian love.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 18, 2013

Pteriax said:
I don't think it is fair to assume that about Christians who are being physically assaulted in the streets while having their rights stripped away one by one. I have known someone it happened to, and they were all about Christian love.

It all boils down to premise . it's angel logic . it doesn't make sense to most people . so i won't use it here . but if you examine the premise of everything leading up to the forming of the denominations and religious orders that now exist . it will make sense . even if you don't like what's happening .

this is not the only way to go . but the path for each who walks in the spirit is individual and like the name on the white tablet .. only they know what theirs is . so i'll leave this post .. at that .

as far as the "real" persecutions . i believe the biblical response is to rejoice because the prophets before you were treated that way . North America at least has it all backwards .

Colleen1 · Jul 18, 2013

Michael Collum said:
If persecution comes .. i don't think it will be because people were proclaiming the gospel . but acting in a manner deserving of persecution regardless of religious protection laws .

i.e. the persecution complex that is common in western christians is unfounded as there is no real persecution like the beginning faith .

Can you expound on this MC? ...hmm .. :scratch:

I'm not sure how to take this.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 18, 2013

Colleen1 said:
Can you expound on this MC? ...hmm .. I'm not sure how to take this.

Persecution that comes because of people spreading hate in the name of Jesus saying absurd things .. has nothing to do with being persecuted for the gospel . but .. it may cause people outside the faith to lump us all into the same category as say .. Westboro Baptist Church .

Also .. saying you're being persecuted because people are disagreeing with you in a public forum and asserting a not biblical opinion even as law as the consensus of the people has decided .. is not persecution .

Gregory Thompson · Jul 18, 2013

but persecution is when people are demonstrating the new humanity and guiding others into it .. and it's actually changing things and turning the world upside down .. and you're persecuted for not only preaching but demonstrating .. good news .. then .. that would be considered persecution .. especially if for your witness of Christ's power in your generation as your life reads as an epistle.. you are persecuted and continue to the point of death . this is what persecution is . it exists in many countries . but the west .. it's approaching that point . but it's not there, the west provides political protection that simply does not exist in other countries . the west is like rome in a way during paul's day . if that illustration helps .

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 18, 2013

Originally Posted by Michael Collum

My understanding of god is more love centred as the bible defines it .

the law oriented versions of the religion have been having a hard time of it it seems .

Pteriax said:
Who are you accusing of legalism?

Where did he imply legalism? :scratch:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7575128-31/#post57956442
legalism

Originally Posted by ElijahW

Believing you need to obey the Law or specific behavior is a requirement for salvation, instead of faith in Jesus.

Obeying the Law to the letter or extra rituals isn't an issue unless you think your or others salvation is dependent on that.

.

Colleen1 · Jul 18, 2013

I think it would be important to define persecution. Persecution in society never just happens overnight. It develops in various ways. So I think that there is concern among Christians that it is developing to the extent that you may define persecution. I think there may be varying views though regarding what persecution is. My point of view is that there are varying types of persecution and varying degrees of persecution. I do see certain attitude developing and not just because some Christians may present Christianity in certain negative ways. There is always resistance in varying ways regarding Christianity and I think this is as given.

Pteriax · Jul 18, 2013

It is happening here in the west. I weep for my Christian brothers, hospitalized, ostracized, and murdered. They did nothing to deserve it, not one thing. How can you just assume that they were not being true to the gospel? I am deeply troubled and offended by this attitude and this topic as you are presenting it. Where is the love you talk about so much in other posts?

Persecution

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Newbie

Newbie

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Someone to hate

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Someone to hate

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Someone to hate

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Someone to hate

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Legend

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Legend

Someone to hate

Similar threads