Theology of Carnality

Ceridwen · Dec 24, 2012

InSpiritInTruth said:
Please use scripture to prove your point, otherwise its just your own speculation.

Scripture tells us that what God calls "good," the carnal man calls "evil" and vice versa: "What people value highly is detestable in Gods sight." Luke 16:15. Scripture also tells us that when the carnal man commits sin, he is satisfying his natural desires. And when the spiritual man follows Yahweh's Commands, his desires are also being satisfied:

"Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
Romans 8:5-8 (New International Version)

If the damned in hell knew themselves to be miserable, then they would be benefiting from a knowledge and a sanity that they do not possess in their madness: "The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts." Ecclesiastes 9:3. "The LORD knows the thoughts of man; he knows that they are futile." Psalm 94:11.

Hell is devoid of all spiritual goodness, even the goodness of the knowledge of what they are missing. There is not a SINGLE thought they have that is not mad and futile. Hence, they do not know the truth that they suffer, instead believing the insane thought that they are joyful.

InSpiritInTruth · Dec 24, 2012

Ceridwen said:
Hell is devoid of all spiritual goodness, even the goodness of the knowledge of what they are missing. There is not a SINGLE thought they have that is not mad and futile. Hence, they do not know the truth that they suffer, instead believing the insane thought that they are joyful.

What you had sounded pretty good until you got to this part highlighted above.

I believe the knowledge of what they are missing out on is the main part of their restlessness and torment. To say they are joyful in this torment is not based on scripture.

They shall see thier sins like a worm in a fire that never dies out. Ever put a worm in a fire? Well, he ain't dancin for joy.

Mark 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:46
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

sniperelite7 · Dec 24, 2012

I've noticed it, its because we've watered down the word of God and turned it into a vehicle for our own prejudices and a way for us too vindicate our turning our noses up at anything that makes us queasy. God no longer is a dynamic living force in our lives for self reflection on ourselves, He is now a rigid stone(paper) rule book that we beat people over the head with. Stone isn't living, its dead. Reading through Christian history, seems thats all we do, we try to capture God in a box, etch out a rule, or several thousand rules, only for them to be forgotten a century later. Thats why you see this approach to Christianity, conventional theology is seen as increasingly rigid, and here in America very political. What you have now is a group of people who want nothing to do with the political and social baggage of the Church, but desire the actual principles that Christ laid out....so they reject stagnant tradition and go off trying to hack out their own path. They aren't defying Christ, they are defying a destructive and often contradictory tradition. Its not them, or demons, or the world. Its the failure of the church plain and simple.

wordsoflife · Dec 24, 2012

motherprayer said:
I've noticed recently a trend among Christians, and I wonder if anyone else has seen the same thing?

Christians today seem to live by a "whatever is right for me" mentality, which interests me because Jesus told us to deny ourselves, and Paul confirmed this when he said be no longer conformed of this world.

My question is twofold:
1) If you have noticed this, what do you think of it?
2) If you agree with this mentality, why? How do you reconcile it with verses like the ones mentioned above?

1. Yes I have noticed it. This is the way men act thus making themselves God. I believe the Church age that we are in is very Laodicean.

2. No I do not agree with this mentality.

HEsTiLLALiVe · Dec 24, 2012

I notice it, and even in myself at times, but no I don't agree with this mentality because it's completely wrong. Good post. Yah bless and Shalom.

Partaker of Christ · Dec 24, 2012

Ceridwen said:
Remember, torment is what God and his saints see with true vision when they look out across hell and see the damned in hell. Without the benefit of truth, the damned cannot know the truth about their condition. Without the benefit of spiritual affections of the will, the damned cannot know the dimensions of their suffering.

A bit like the rich man and Lazarus you mean?

One day every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.

I guess that means there will be some unhappy chappies dont you?

Partaker of Christ · Dec 24, 2012

seeingeyes said:
Everyone has a 'whatever is right for me' mentality. Everyone. If we didn't think our beliefs were 'right for me', then we wouldn't believe them.

Rom 14:7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
Rom 14:8 For both if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore both if we live, and if we die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For this Christ both died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and living.

2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constrains us, judging this, that if one died for all, then all died;
2Co 5:15 and He died for all, that the living ones may live no more to themselves, but to Him who died for them and having been raised.
2Co 5:16 So as we now know no one according to flesh, but even if we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we no longer know Him so.
2Co 5:17 So that if anyone is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Partaker of Christ · Dec 24, 2012

Ceridwen said:
Scripture tells us that what God calls "good," the carnal man calls "evil" and vice versa: "What people value highly is detestable in Gods sight." Luke 16:15. Scripture also tells us that when the carnal man commits sin, he is satisfying his natural desires. And when the spiritual man follows Yahweh's Commands, his desires are also being satisfied:

"Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
Romans 8:5-8 (New International Version)

If the damned in hell knew themselves to be miserable, then they would be benefiting from a knowledge and a sanity that they do not possess in their madness: "The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts." Ecclesiastes 9:3. "The LORD knows the thoughts of man; he knows that they are futile." Psalm 94:11.

Hell is devoid of all spiritual goodness, even the goodness of the knowledge of what they are missing. There is not a SINGLE thought they have that is not mad and futile. Hence, they do not know the truth that they suffer, instead believing the insane thought that they are joyful.

Psa 71:13 Let them be ashamed; let those who are enemies of my soul be consumed; let them be covered with reproach and dishonor, those who seek my hurt.

Jer 20:11 But Jehovah is with me like a mighty, awesome one. Therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not overcome me. They shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not be blessed. Their everlasting shame shall never be forgotten.

Noxot · Dec 24, 2012

InSpiritInTruth said:
What you had sounded pretty good until you got to this part highlighted above.

I believe the knowledge of what they are missing out on is the main part of their restlessness and torment. To say they are joyful in this torment is not based on scripture.

They shall see thier sins like a worm in a fire that never dies out. Ever put a worm in a fire? Well, he ain't dancin for joy.

Mark 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:46
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

everyone knows that the worm that does not die is CHRIST. and what fire that is not quenched other than the Spirit of God? carnal mind, tsk tsk. and what are the smoke of torments but the intensely loving prayers of thanksgiving to God for such a salvation? people are insane, their eye is not single at all.

SoundCard · Dec 24, 2012

Noxot said:
everyone knows that the worm that does not die is CHRIST. and what fire that is not quenched other than the Spirit of God? carnal mind, tsk tsk.

That's the first time I've ever heard that comparison be made. :scratch:

motherprayer · Dec 24, 2012

Noxot said:
everyone knows that the worm that does not die is CHRIST. and what fire that is not quenched other than the Spirit of God? carnal mind, tsk tsk. and what are the smoke of torments but the intensely loving prayers of thanksgiving to God for such a salvation? people are insane, their eye is not single at all.

Not everyone. Can you clarify this?

Fireinfolding · Dec 24, 2012

Unless its gotten from here too, Jobs friend said

Job 25:6 How much less man, [that is] a worm? and the son of man, [which is] a worm?

A few verses later Job replies

Job 26:4 To whom hast thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?

Noxot · Dec 24, 2012

motherprayer said:
Not everyone. Can you clarify this?

christ said he is a worm, God is a consuming fire. i'm a little child of God and I have faith to move mountains.

it is a sad thing when i have to put the sword to angels... never the less, not even angels will separate me from Christ.

Fireinfolding · Dec 24, 2012

Here

Psalm 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Folks like to examine the exact verses

motherprayer · Dec 24, 2012

Noxot said:
it is a sad thing when i have to put the sword to angels... never the less, not even angels will separate me from Christ.

Sorry lol but can you clarify this as well?

motherprayer · Dec 24, 2012

Fireinfolding said:
Here

Psalm 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Folks like to examine the exact verses

I'm still missing something. Is the worm the spirit of God, or of man?

Noxot · Dec 24, 2012

it is christ speaking in that psalm. later on we see

Ps 22:16 (YLT)
And to the dust of death thou appointest me, For surrounded me have dogs, A company of evil doers have compassed me, Piercing my hands and my feet.

sometimes there are good angels and they speak the best they can, but Christ is the head. there is no favoritism in Christ and if I have to, I would put the sword to children, after all, if they don't Love God then they have to die.

Carmella Prochaska · Dec 24, 2012

Carnality is the practice of finding satisfaction in activities related to fleshly desires and appetites, especially the sexual.

I've seen the same trend you have.

We aren't supposed to live by "whatever is right for me". That's a kind of moral relativism that is seen a lot in non-Christians. Absolutely contrary to the firm moral commands Jesus/God gave to us.

I think it is something that needs to change.

Fireinfolding · Dec 24, 2012

motherprayer said:
I'm still missing something. Is the worm the spirit of God, or of man?

Look, InSpiritInTruth brought up the worm stuff ^_^

I know nothing about what their worm signifies yet.

Think your missing it alone? Im with you lol

Like I will help out with verses to consider but I am not a teacher.

Ask InSpiritInTruth (who I want to say, "told you so" to) by the way ^_^

motherprayer · Dec 24, 2012

Fireinfolding said:
Look, InSpiritInTruth brought up the worm stuff

I know nothing about what their worm signifies yet.

Think your missing it alone? Im with you lol

Like I will help out with verses to consider but I am not a teacher.

Ask InSpiritInTruth (who I want to say, "told you so" to) by the way

Lol I love you! We can fellowship in our lostness. Oh the joys of semantics ;-P

Theology of Carnality

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