What is Wrong with going to Church?

CGL1023 said:

SNPETE: My question is: just what is wrong with going to church? Wherein lies the objection?
I am sure this question will be interpreted as an attack by some, but so what! I just want to understand the rationale behind the home church idea.

There is huge false doctrine taught today. Satan is alive and well deceiving church bodies and leadership.

Programs involving well-meaning people who do good works but may know very little of the Word nor have a high regard for it.

Martial arts classes, involving eastern religions, are taught in churches.

Most churches do not practice Mark 16:17,18 which give the signs that follow a believer.

You can see on Christian tv, presenters adorning themselves with Jewish garments and looking up to Judaism instead of fleeing from Jewish law as we are told to do in the New Covenant.

I nearly forgot to mention how much feel-good evangelism is being disseminated. The messages preached seldom offend, they tell little about sin and the judgement in the end times.

Pastors give crowds what they want to hear so they remain popular and grow their membership. I watched this on multiple occasions at the last church I attended.

Also multiple denominations suppress the Holy Spirit with their doctrine

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Yes, very sad. I recently acquired God Channels on Satellite TV and devoured them at first but became aware that there were issues over the vast wealth of Leaders at some of these gorgeous looking venues and Churches. I heard about " promise Boxes " years and years ago where you pull out a card from a little box and it will give a verse or two to encourage, but I have become aware that not only do those lovely verses have conditions attrached, such as, you will/can have this IF YOU... but also there is a danger of taking them out of context; either ignoring to whom they were spoken or ignroing the verses around them.

"I" felt God was leading me on my Spiritual Journey over the Decades. I was brought up a Catholic, took my First Communion, but didn't know God or "feel" Him. Attended a Free Church of England age 27 then Assemblies of God when we relocated then non-denominational since then. During my period away form Church I have realised it has made me aware the things I was experiencing were not necessarily all there is for me "I" felt very secure and thought I had arrived, was very greatful for things I learnt, but it seems it's to be yet another new chapter for me. My head may explode but heigh ho.

Intheboat said:

[
Yes, that part of Peter in Acts is correct. All people and all food were declared clean. That part of the law changed. But the Commandments didn't change, and neither did other things mentioned in the Old Testament, such as redeeming the first born.

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No, no, I agree the 10 Commandments will not be revoked! Sorry to be stupid, what do you mean by " redeeming the First Born" please?

I agree the danger of stating we are under grace might imply we are merely to sit passively to receive miraculous power and the indwelling Holy Spirit will automatically burn out our weaknesses. I think when we are " full of the Spirit" we may indeed experience a better side to our personalities but I guess the leading of the Spirit may also be to the Wilderness Experiences where we suffer, even if only mentally, and gain a closer walk. Problem is; there is soooo much IN the Bible . We can bandy verses about and all be correct! I do find though when i contradict a Person's point on this Forum later it makes me think more about their stance and, although it does my head in, I think it is a good thing.[/QUOTE]
















Redeeming the first born, is quite an interesting subject. I really think you should embark on that journey and find out for yourself what that means. It is deep, ohhhh man, is it deep.

Then we can discuss it together, and learn more about it.

I believe that going to church, any church, any denomination, leads us to God. But those are just baby steps. Then we grow, by reading the Bible, by listening to him, by educating ourselves with the teachings of Christ, by ignoring the world.

Then we will see the fullness of God, or at least a better glimpse. Then you start to realize that everyone that worships one god, worships the Father. Then we begin to understand that we may all be different, but we are all brothers and sisters.

This is why I have church at home, this is why I feel free to attend any church, even non-christian. God is the creator of all, and we are all just learning from our father. And remember, some kids listen to their father and yet do the opposite. Some kids reject their father, yet they become a chip off the old block.

nothing

My personal view is that going to a church can only benefit the Christian. Plus a church is a public presence that can reach out to the community. If nothing else, it is listed in the phone book so someone looking for fellowship, counsel or salvation can simply give the church a call and find someone to talk to. I don’t this as being possible with a home fellowship group.

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Being a retired Sales and Marketing Manager, I have had a keen interest in how the church presents itslelf. I have even taught marketing to churches to enhance their profile.

Despite my puny efforts, research shows that most advertising by churches is a waste of time. In most churches, the contact of a friend who already attends brings 90% of people to the church, so a public prescence is irrelevant from that perspective.

In fact, church in the home has a better chance to attract people as most will accept an invitation to a meal in the home but most won't be interested in going to a religious service, evidenced by the fact that in most towns 90% of the population do not darken the door of the church.

As long as you do not lose what faith you do have, then there is nothing wrong in going to a church or home group. Just be sure you keep growing in the spirit and in the truth.
I would rather have a few around me to keep me sharp and eager to manifest the presence of the power of the Holy Spirit, than a crowd of men pleasers.
Being sent to a certain congregation for a time, to be a witness there is a challenge.
And I sure agree with the last post who said advertising was not helpful for a church.
Most ad's that I have seen would keep me away from that church. One said they were open minded, all inclusive, ect.. No wonder people stay away. They are looking for answers, not just wanting to show up.
just my two cents

Just to add another perspective, what does it mean to go to church?

For most who do, it means going to a Sunday morning service run by professionals who are paid to keep the wheels turning without too much disruption.

For the majority (90%) who do not see this as relevant, church is an anacronym. it purports to be God's representative on earth but too many see it as the representative of itself.

To put it bluntly, promotion is on the basis of me, myself and I which includes what we can do for you to give you a happy life and we can do that better than most.

As elite storm troopers, which is what we are, inviting the uncommitted to join a group that are at war is utter madness, but that is what we do. The only people that put on armour are soldiers (Ephesians 6) but in most churches, that is an optional extra.

Come to our meetings, sing a few songs, listen to a lecture, pay your subs and hope to see you next week.

That is why the NT church did not go to church, they were the church, totally committed and dedicated to the cause and an intense love for one another.

They weren't screwed up by the demands of denominations or people trying to climb the ladder of acceptance and success.

A bit blunt I know but makes you think doesn't it.

Episaw said:

Just to add another perspective, what does it mean to go to church?

For most who do, it means going to a Sunday morning service run by professionals who are paid to keep the wheels turning without too much disruption.

For the majority (90%) who do not see this as relevant, church is an anacronym. it purports to be God's representative on earth but too many see it as the representative of itself.

To put it bluntly, promotion is on the basis of me, myself and I which includes what we can do for you to give you a happy life and we can do that better than most.

As elite storm troopers, which is what we are, inviting the uncommitted to join a group that are at war is utter madness, but that is what we do. The only people that put on armour are soldiers (Ephesians 6) but in most churches, that is an optional extra.

Come to our meetings, sing a few songs, listen to a lecture, pay your subs and hope to see you next week.

That is why the NT church did not go to church, they were the church, totally committed and dedicated to the cause and an intense love for one another.
They weren't screwed up by the demands of denominations or people trying to climb the ladder of acceptance and success.

A bit blunt I know but makes you think doesn't it.

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But these " professionals " are often people who experienced a Call of God upon their life and had to change their plans for their future and embark upon perhaps a scary concept of trusting God to provide and to use them to lead others. Sometimes the Church can expect too much of their Pastor/Vicar , only wanting to run spiritual questions by that one person, perhaps being lazy sitting listening and not being prepared to examine their life, letting the one up at the front spoon feed them as being closer to God than they - whereas they could be AS close.

Ideally we should seek to rectify what we see in our Church as wrong, in a spirit of love, but many of us -me- keep our heads down and " take the precious from the vile". Jer. 15:19

"Come to our meetings, sing a few songs, listen to a lecture, pay your subs and hope to see you next week."

But what about the Spirit binding people together and convicting people whilst there? I know life is busy but Christians can also seek God about His individual plan for their life and start it.


"That is why the NT church did not go to church, they were the church, totally committed and dedicated to the cause and an intense love for one another. "

Sometimes though, this can be the sign of a Cult or can start out as Christian but end up with a very Controlling Leader. I visisted such a one once for a weekend.

It is hard to keep the Faith alone. Different in an anti-Christian Country where openly meeting may be dangerous. Granted some may be called to come away ; and meet others to have Fellowship with, but for some , despite being wounded and hurt ,and disillusioned, they need to find a way back somewhere.

I was away for 7 years and lost a lot through it - I am different now. I'm on the path but miss what I used to have. God is leading me though and some of what I thought I had was dross.

Peace

SNPete said:

I have a question.



simply give the church a call and find someone to talk to. I don’t this as being possible with a home fellowship group.

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What put me off my last church? The pastor said "If you're not a percentage tither, we can't afford to have you here". "If you're not bring someone new to church with you every week, we're better off without you" etc. Man, what a turn off! Often the talks are helpful but socially it's not crash hot. When new people go to church often no one talks to them or very few try. In my last church even the pastor rarely even tries. New people wander around afterward like lost property while the long termers stick to each other, oblivious to how unwelcoming they are.

Episaw, that was a brilliant thought.
"As elite storm troopers, which is what we are, inviting the uncommitted to join a group that are at war is utter madness, but that is what we do. The only people that put on armour are soldiers (Ephesians 6) but in most churches, that is an optional extra.
Your words made me smile and think and nod.
Thanks for that post.

woman2woman said:

What put me off my last church? The pastor said "If you're not a percentage tither, we can't afford to have you here"..

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The pastor at the church I attended last said if you didn't pay your tithes he couldn't be your pastor.

He demanded 10%

The pastor at the church I attended last said if you didn't pay your tithes he couldn't be your pastor.

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I don't know if you realise there is an irony in this comment which is probably true but not in the way he meant it.

if you don't pay your tithes he couldn't be your pastor....because he would be out of a job because of insufficent income which with an attitude like that is probably the best thing that could happen.

Episaw said:

I don't know if you realise there is an irony in this comment which is probably true but not in the way he meant it.

if you don't pay your tithes he couldn't be your pastor....because he would be out of a job because of insufficent income which with an attitude like that is probably the best thing that could happen.

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Which is the problem with "positions" these days...with Paul it was a calling...whether he abased or abounded...he still did what he was called to do. Same with Jesus...He was provided for by God (through people but I don't recall him ever asking or demanding for things...unless you include asking for the bread and the fish and he had more left over than what he started with in that instance). It just seems like a lot of church leaders of today have strayed farther and farther away from what they were intended to be. Maybe it's just a sign of the times or maybe a lack of faith...easier to rely on passing the offering plate or rely on our jobs than to depend on God I guess...and that's something we all struggle with.

It just seems like a lot of church leaders of today have strayed farther and farther away from what they were intended to be. Maybe it's just a sign of the times or maybe a lack of faith...easier to rely on passing the offering plate or rely on our jobs than to depend on God I guess...and that's something we all struggle with.

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A good point Mitch. This may be the very reason for the lack of the supernatural in our churches. The leader does not have to live by faith so he cannot teach or model faith and as we know without faith it is impossible to please God. End result is leadership pleasing people not God as they are his source of income.

And now days so many are wanting to "get into the ministry", for it does pay if you can get successful. Somewhat like a government, where more are getting paid, than the ones in the pews, who do the paying.
As religion gets bigger, a church on every corner, it gets weaker. Those who are paying to keep the doors open are not experiencing the power for it is dispensed from the pulpit.
Looks like a no win situation.

And now days so many are wanting to "get into the ministry", for it does pay if you can get successful. Somewhat like a government, where more are getting paid, than the ones in the pews, who do the paying.
As religion gets bigger, a church on every corner, it gets weaker. Those who are paying to keep the doors open are not experiencing the power for it is dispensed from the pulpit.Looks like a no win situation.

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How true Norah. Speaking personally my fellowship is so full of pride. Yes, that is right. We are proud of the fact that we are a bunch of nobody's. The foolish, the ignorant and the nobodies. We love it because we know that is the sort of people God chooses and uses.

Perhaps that is the reason why we regualrly have a visitation of the Spirit in our meetings.

Most of us come from dysfunctional homes and are a bit screwed up, but you won't find a more passionate bunch of disciples. To them, Jesus is everything and without him, what have they got...nothing.

There is the old saying"" if the Holy Spirit left your church, would it make any difference?"In most churches no. With us, we would have to shut up shop because nothing would happen.

No one has a title. No one is paid. No one has a position. No one considers himself better than anyone else. You will never hear a negative word about anyone. You will constantly hear people being thanked for any contribution of any kind that they make to the fellowship, no matter how small. Positive comments are the order of the day and we never waste an opportunity to compliment each other.

Last night I said to twin boys "I never feel that anything I teach you is every wasted. At the rate you are growing you will do me out of business." They felt ten feet tall.

Our attitude is that we are all in the ministry and you don't need titles, positions or pay to be effective in your calling. I have taught them that God is not interested in their ability. What he wants is their availability.

They can run with that because some have university degrees and some can hardly read or write, but availabity is up to them, with or without degrees.

Going to church is wrong.. Because church is not a place, it's an organism, that is the living Body of Christ. research this and you'll find your answer!

Neat answer, humanbn. It would be so convienent to keep the church in a place, instead of inside our selves.

I could never find the time to read everything in this post so I will attempt to just speak from my experience. Many Christians I know are "burnt out" for many years now. Some have chosen other paths while others elected to play church, or become associate pastors in other than Charismatic fellowships, in order to maintain freedom of the secular world. I elected to flee in order to be free. Too many unanswered prayers, especially healing for my wife and she prays continuously. I wouldn't know where to send someone interested in growing in the Lord because I don't follow any particular church doctrine anymore or their visiting speakers. I love the fact that God does not refuse anything that He offers freely and it is assuring to know that I am once saved and will always be saved. I'm not driven to do crazy things nor do I seek out anything that isn't pleasing to God. I do not consider myself pure, but I do think my wife is. She is very ill with chronic fibromyalgia that has increased in different areas of her body over the past several years. She cries, takes her medications and cries some more. She prays that God would either heal her or take her away from all of this. Yes, she is special, a real angel, the closest woman to the mother of God I know. I simply have cast aside the Bible for the most part mostly because the past always finds its way into my thoughts, referring to teachings of the word of faith doctrine. There is so much change that is necessary within the church world to alter my position. Wealth, prosperity all in the name of God is a horrible excuse for not working while others pay the bills. Blaming the Christian for a lack of healing is absurd. I'm really done with so much of it. Thank God my wife and I are saved. She means so much to me. We agree that we see through a glass darkly, for now.

May I just encourage you to keep in the Word, even if it is just a little bit on the web each day. The renewing of our mind by the washing of the water of the Word is such a help when our spirit and our faith seems to be suffering.
To have a loved one be in pain is hard, and I will pray for your wife. That is what the body of Christ does for one another.
Going to a church group is not always the real help we would wish it to be. Just forgive and go on in the faith is what I have done.
I'm sure most on this forum have seen the unfruitful works done in some meeting places. Yet Christ is faithful to each of us as we turn our hearts over to His healing balm. We are never alone. The one who knows us best loves us most.