-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
What is Wrong with going to Church?
- Thread starter SNPete
- Start date
That's cause they don't have big buildings and they preacha ain't on TV... and they be meetin in people's cribs
Sorry, couldn't resist after your "must be well hidden" comment... Well, Homer is a very un-Godly man with much contempt for the things of God. Pretty disgusting guy that I wouldn't think too many Bible believing Christians would want to associate with since we supposed to be separated from this world's ways and all... Homer be all about this world!
k00L... can you go in yo jammies?
Many episodes of The Simpsons concerning mainstream christianity are "spot on" . If only people in those groups would "get it" .
Yes, and many episodes of the Simpons attack Jesus Christ and Christianity in general as being a bunch of stoopid, inbred rednecks so it's modern day primetime persecution that should not please any Christian!
Exactly... if you find a perfect church, whatever you do DON'T join it cause you'll mess it ups and it won't be being perfects nomo!
You should look up your local MeChurch.com which is a church that is all about you! The preacher only preaches sermons you approve. The wash your car while inside, and they feed you lunch along with a nice foot massage. Yes, it's MeChruch.com... visit a local branch today!
I saw a skit about this once... totally halarious!You must not be a tither... or believe financial prosperity is something God cares about. I used to be like that, and was so poor I couldn't pay attention so going to church did no good cause I couldn't remember what they said anyway!
So, do home churches take up offerings? It's scriptural to do so, as long as you aren't compelling the people with pressure to give
Upvote
0
BeforeThereWas
Seasoned Warrior
- Mar 14, 2005
- 2,450
- 59
- Faith
- Word of Faith
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
The OP said:
Words have meaning, therefore my question: How does one go to what we are in Christ Jesus?
We ARE the Church.
The REAL question should be: Why this idea that all Christians should attend and support the institutional model?
After all, that model isn't built upon the foundation of scripture because it's man-made. It's more roman catholic than most protestants are willing to admit.
Anyone who posits the idea that home meetings are always superior to the institutional model are living in a dream land.
However, one main difference is that most institutional-model-goers assume they are experiencing fellowship in the main service. How they think they can do that looking at the backs of each other's heads while sitting passively in pews or chairs completely escpaes me. In homes, we can sit together like a family, facing one another like a family as opposed to being a mere audience member.
Have you mastered the art of fellowshipping with the backs of other people's heads? I never could, so maybe you can give us all some pointers?
So, you assume that the lack of spiritual growth, which is an inherently dominant problem with the institutional model because of the lack of discipleship, is not really a problem?
You don't see any problem with the institutional "pastor" role. how it mostly fosteres the paradigm of perpetual sheepdom.....with the people bleeting week after week for their weekly, warm fuzzy of sermonizing?
That's your idea of spiritual growth?
And yet many of them teach that tithing to them is the biblical thing to do, never minding that the majority of the people's primary, largest portion giving to them is absorbed by the facility, it's associated costs, and the professional staffing within. That clearly is NOT biblical because it places dead buildings (which are NOT the images of God) as higher priorities in that "giving" than the needs of people (who ARE the images of God).
What about God and His minstering angels? Beleive it or not, the Lord and His servants are finding those people without the Yellow Pages. Always have, and always will.
Oh, ye of little faith.....
I can understand your viewpoint, considering that you elevate the institutional model FAR above what it really deserves, and you point out what you think are positivies that either serve to belittle the work of the Lord in people's lives, or is a gross distortion of the Truth.
Simply stated, the institutional model has inherent paradigms that few have ever overcome, or even tried to overcome.....mainly that they foster and promote perpetual sheepdom rather than raising up spiritual giants.
I keep hearing preachers talk about how America is being lost because the "church" isn't stepping up and maintaining control over our cultural and social values.
The dark little secret to that that claim is that they themselves have the largest share of that blame on their own shoulders.
Trying to place it on the shoulders of those masses that sit passively, by requirement, in pews before and below them each week is pure hypocrisy!
Do you NOW see a little more of the portrait, or are you still in the dark?
BTW
Words have meaning, therefore my question: How does one go to what we are in Christ Jesus?
We ARE the Church.
The REAL question should be: Why this idea that all Christians should attend and support the institutional model?
After all, that model isn't built upon the foundation of scripture because it's man-made. It's more roman catholic than most protestants are willing to admit.
Anyone who posits the idea that home meetings are always superior to the institutional model are living in a dream land.
However, one main difference is that most institutional-model-goers assume they are experiencing fellowship in the main service. How they think they can do that looking at the backs of each other's heads while sitting passively in pews or chairs completely escpaes me. In homes, we can sit together like a family, facing one another like a family as opposed to being a mere audience member.
Have you mastered the art of fellowshipping with the backs of other people's heads? I never could, so maybe you can give us all some pointers?
So, you assume that the lack of spiritual growth, which is an inherently dominant problem with the institutional model because of the lack of discipleship, is not really a problem?
You don't see any problem with the institutional "pastor" role. how it mostly fosteres the paradigm of perpetual sheepdom.....with the people bleeting week after week for their weekly, warm fuzzy of sermonizing?
That's your idea of spiritual growth?
And yet many of them teach that tithing to them is the biblical thing to do, never minding that the majority of the people's primary, largest portion giving to them is absorbed by the facility, it's associated costs, and the professional staffing within. That clearly is NOT biblical because it places dead buildings (which are NOT the images of God) as higher priorities in that "giving" than the needs of people (who ARE the images of God).
What about God and His minstering angels? Beleive it or not, the Lord and His servants are finding those people without the Yellow Pages. Always have, and always will.
Oh, ye of little faith.....
I can understand your viewpoint, considering that you elevate the institutional model FAR above what it really deserves, and you point out what you think are positivies that either serve to belittle the work of the Lord in people's lives, or is a gross distortion of the Truth.
Simply stated, the institutional model has inherent paradigms that few have ever overcome, or even tried to overcome.....mainly that they foster and promote perpetual sheepdom rather than raising up spiritual giants.
I keep hearing preachers talk about how America is being lost because the "church" isn't stepping up and maintaining control over our cultural and social values.
The dark little secret to that that claim is that they themselves have the largest share of that blame on their own shoulders.
Trying to place it on the shoulders of those masses that sit passively, by requirement, in pews before and below them each week is pure hypocrisy!
Do you NOW see a little more of the portrait, or are you still in the dark?
BTW
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Episaw
Always learning
- Nov 12, 2010
- 2,547
- 603
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- CA-Conservatives
Very bold of you to say what you have said Before There Was. I think you will upset about 90% of western christendom with your words.
Now, I seen to remember another guy who did the very self same thing. Now who was it?
Oh yes, I remember now. It was Jesus. Called a spade a spade and didn't seen to have a good word for institutionalised religion of the day.
Just one very small point. I don't think many people posit that the home meetings are ALWAYS superior. In many cases they are very superior i.e no back of heads syndrome, and in many cases they are not as they can be a smaller version of the big version.
Upvote
0
BeforeThereWas
Seasoned Warrior
- Mar 14, 2005
- 2,450
- 59
- Faith
- Word of Faith
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
And yet most who attend and support the institutional model erroneously assume the entirety of the institutional model is built upon the foundation of the Bible.
I'm always in favor of any group surrounding Christ Jesus, and Him alone, not men who make themselves the "star of the show".
I agree.
Very true indeed.
BTW
Upvote
0
- Aug 3, 2004
- 14,082
- 1,003
- 84
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
Frank Viola gives this list of historical developments The Order of Worship
The Sunday Morning Order of Worship -Evolved from Gregory's Mass in the sixth century to the revisions made by Luther, Calvin, the Puritans, the Free Church tradition, the Methodists, the Frontier-Revivalists, and the Pentecostals.
The Centrality of the Pulpit in the Order of Worship. Martin Luther in 1523.
Two Candles Placed on Top of the "Communion Table" and Incense Burning -Borrowed from the ceremonial court of Roman Emperors in the fourth century. The "Communion Table" was introduced by Ulrich Zwingli in the 16thcentury.
The Congregation Standing and Singing When the Clergy Enters Borrowed from the ceremonial court of Roman Emperors in the fourth century. Brought into the Protestant liturgy by John Calvin (1509-1564). Coming to Church with a Somber Reverent Attitude -Based on the medieval view of piety. Brought into the Protestant service by John Calvin and Martin Bucer (1491-1551).
Condemnation and Guilt Over Missing a Sunday Service -17th-century New England Puritans.
The Long"PastoralPrayer"Which Precedes the Sermon-17th-century Puritans.
The Pastoral Prayer Uttered in Elizabethan English (when the language was outdated) -18th-century Methodists.
The Goal of All Preaching to Win Individual Souls -18th-century Frontier-Revivalists.
The Altar-Call -Invented by 17th-century Methodists and popularized by Charles Finney (1792-1872).
The Church Bulletin (written liturgy) -Originated in 1884 with Albert Blake Dick's stencil duplicating machine. .
The "Solo" Salvation Hymn, Door-to-Door Witnessing, and Evangelistic Advertising Campaigning-D.L. Moody (1837-1899).
The Decision Card -Invented by Absalom B. Earle (1812-1895) and popularized by D.L. Moody.
Bowing Heads with Eyes Closed and Raising the Hand in Response to a Salvation Message -Billy Graham in the 20th century.
The Sermon The Modern Sermon -Borrowed from the Greek sophists, who were masters at oratory and rhetoric. John Chrysostom (347-407) and Augustine (354-430) popularized the Greco-Roman homily (sermon) and made it a central part of the Christian faith.
The Four-Part Sermon Outline -17th-century Puritans.
The Church Building
The Church Building -Started by Constantine around A.D. 327. The first church buildings were patterned after the Roman basilicas which were modelled after Greek temples.
The Origins of Our Modern Church Practices
The Sacred Space -Christians borrowed this idea from the pagans in the second and third centuries. The burial places of the martyrs were regarded as "sacred." In the fourth century, church buildings were erected on these burial places, thus creating "sacred" buildings.
The Pastor's Chair -Derived from the cathedra, which was the bishop's chair or throne. This chair replaced the seat of the judge in the Roman basilica.
The Pulpit -Used in the Christian church as early as A.D. 250. It came from the Greek ambo, which was a pulpit used by both Greeks and Jews for delivering monologues. The Pew -Evolved from the 13th through the 18th centuries in England.
The Pastor
The Single Bishop (predecessor of the modern pastor) -Ignatius of Antioch around A.D. 115. Ignatius' model of one-bishop-rule did not prevail in the churches until the third century.
The "Covering" Doctrine -Cyprian of Carthage (200-258), a former pagan orator. Revived under Juan Carlos Ortiz from Argentina and the "Fort Lauderdale Five" from the United States, creating the so-called "Shepherding-Discipleship Movement" in 1970s.
Hierarchical Leadership -Brought into the church by Constantine in the fourth century. This was the leadership style of the Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, and Romans.
Clergy and Laity -"Laity" first appears in the writings of Clement of Rome(d.100)."Clergy" first appears in Tertullian (160-225). By the third century, Christian leaders were universally called "clergy."
Modern Ordination -Evolved from the second century to the fourth. It was taken from the Roman custom of appointing men to civil office. The idea of the ordained minister as the "holy man of God" can be traced to Augustine (293-373), Gregory of Nazianzus (329-389), and Chrysostom (347-407).
The Title "Pastor" -Catholic priests who became Protestant ministers were not universally called "Pastors" until the 18th century under the influence of Lutheran Pietists.
The Clergy Costume -Began in A.D. 330 when Christian clergy began wearing the garb of Roman officials. By the 12thcentury, the clergy began wearing everyday street clothes that distinguished them from the people. The Evangelical Pastor's Suit -A descendent of the black scholar's gown worn by Reformation ministers, the black lounge suit of the 20th century became the typical costume of the modern pastor.
The Clerical (Backwards) Collar -Invented by Rev. Dr. Donald McLeod of Glasgow in 1865.
Ministers of Music
The Choir -Provoked by Constantine's desire to mimic the professional music used in Roman imperial ceremonies. In the fourth century, the Christians borrowed the choir idea from the choirs used in Greek dramas and Greek temples.
The Boys Choir -Began in the fourth century, borrowed from the boys choirs used by the pagans.
Funeral Processions and Orations -Borrowed from Greco-Roman paganism in the third century.
The Origins of Our Modem Church Practices The Worship Team -Calvary Chapel in 1965, patterned after the secular rock concert.
Tithing and Clergy Salaries
Tithing -Did not become a widespread Christian practice until the eighth century. The tithe was taken from the 10% rent-charge used in the Roman Empire and later justified by the Old Testament.
Clergy Salaries -Instituted by Constantine in the fourth century.
The Collection Plate –The alms dish appeared in the 14thcentury.Passing a collection plate began in 1662.
Christian Education The Catholic Seminary -The first seminary began as a result of the Council of Trent (1545-1563). The curriculum was based on the teachings of Thomas Aquinas which was a blending of Aristotle's philosophy, Neo-Platonic philosophy, and Christian doctrine.
The Protestant Seminary -Began in Andover, Massachusetts in 1808. It too was built on the teachings of Thomas Aquinas.
The Bible College -Influenced by the revivalism of D.L. Moody (1837-1899), the first two Bible colleges were The Missionary Training Institute (Nyack College, New York) in 1882 and Moody Bible Institute (Chicago) in 1886.
The Sunday School -Invented by Robert Raikes from Britain in 1780. Raikes did not found the Sunday School for the purpose of religious instruction. He founded it to teach poor children the basics of education.
The Youth Pastor -Invented in urban churches in the late 1930s and 40s as a result of seeking to meet the needs of a new sociological class called "teenagers."
Food for thought? Such developments are not necessarily 'wrong' but they can become an institutional model that detracts from more valid expressions of the Life of the Spirit amongst believers.
John
NZ
The Sunday Morning Order of Worship -Evolved from Gregory's Mass in the sixth century to the revisions made by Luther, Calvin, the Puritans, the Free Church tradition, the Methodists, the Frontier-Revivalists, and the Pentecostals.
The Centrality of the Pulpit in the Order of Worship. Martin Luther in 1523.
Two Candles Placed on Top of the "Communion Table" and Incense Burning -Borrowed from the ceremonial court of Roman Emperors in the fourth century. The "Communion Table" was introduced by Ulrich Zwingli in the 16thcentury.
The Congregation Standing and Singing When the Clergy Enters Borrowed from the ceremonial court of Roman Emperors in the fourth century. Brought into the Protestant liturgy by John Calvin (1509-1564). Coming to Church with a Somber Reverent Attitude -Based on the medieval view of piety. Brought into the Protestant service by John Calvin and Martin Bucer (1491-1551).
Condemnation and Guilt Over Missing a Sunday Service -17th-century New England Puritans.
The Long"PastoralPrayer"Which Precedes the Sermon-17th-century Puritans.
The Pastoral Prayer Uttered in Elizabethan English (when the language was outdated) -18th-century Methodists.
The Goal of All Preaching to Win Individual Souls -18th-century Frontier-Revivalists.
The Altar-Call -Invented by 17th-century Methodists and popularized by Charles Finney (1792-1872).
The Church Bulletin (written liturgy) -Originated in 1884 with Albert Blake Dick's stencil duplicating machine. .
The "Solo" Salvation Hymn, Door-to-Door Witnessing, and Evangelistic Advertising Campaigning-D.L. Moody (1837-1899).
The Decision Card -Invented by Absalom B. Earle (1812-1895) and popularized by D.L. Moody.
Bowing Heads with Eyes Closed and Raising the Hand in Response to a Salvation Message -Billy Graham in the 20th century.
The Sermon The Modern Sermon -Borrowed from the Greek sophists, who were masters at oratory and rhetoric. John Chrysostom (347-407) and Augustine (354-430) popularized the Greco-Roman homily (sermon) and made it a central part of the Christian faith.
The Four-Part Sermon Outline -17th-century Puritans.
The Church Building
The Church Building -Started by Constantine around A.D. 327. The first church buildings were patterned after the Roman basilicas which were modelled after Greek temples.
The Origins of Our Modern Church Practices
The Sacred Space -Christians borrowed this idea from the pagans in the second and third centuries. The burial places of the martyrs were regarded as "sacred." In the fourth century, church buildings were erected on these burial places, thus creating "sacred" buildings.
The Pastor's Chair -Derived from the cathedra, which was the bishop's chair or throne. This chair replaced the seat of the judge in the Roman basilica.
The Pulpit -Used in the Christian church as early as A.D. 250. It came from the Greek ambo, which was a pulpit used by both Greeks and Jews for delivering monologues. The Pew -Evolved from the 13th through the 18th centuries in England.
The Pastor
The Single Bishop (predecessor of the modern pastor) -Ignatius of Antioch around A.D. 115. Ignatius' model of one-bishop-rule did not prevail in the churches until the third century.
The "Covering" Doctrine -Cyprian of Carthage (200-258), a former pagan orator. Revived under Juan Carlos Ortiz from Argentina and the "Fort Lauderdale Five" from the United States, creating the so-called "Shepherding-Discipleship Movement" in 1970s.
Hierarchical Leadership -Brought into the church by Constantine in the fourth century. This was the leadership style of the Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, and Romans.
Clergy and Laity -"Laity" first appears in the writings of Clement of Rome(d.100)."Clergy" first appears in Tertullian (160-225). By the third century, Christian leaders were universally called "clergy."
Modern Ordination -Evolved from the second century to the fourth. It was taken from the Roman custom of appointing men to civil office. The idea of the ordained minister as the "holy man of God" can be traced to Augustine (293-373), Gregory of Nazianzus (329-389), and Chrysostom (347-407).
The Title "Pastor" -Catholic priests who became Protestant ministers were not universally called "Pastors" until the 18th century under the influence of Lutheran Pietists.
The Clergy Costume -Began in A.D. 330 when Christian clergy began wearing the garb of Roman officials. By the 12thcentury, the clergy began wearing everyday street clothes that distinguished them from the people. The Evangelical Pastor's Suit -A descendent of the black scholar's gown worn by Reformation ministers, the black lounge suit of the 20th century became the typical costume of the modern pastor.
The Clerical (Backwards) Collar -Invented by Rev. Dr. Donald McLeod of Glasgow in 1865.
Ministers of Music
The Choir -Provoked by Constantine's desire to mimic the professional music used in Roman imperial ceremonies. In the fourth century, the Christians borrowed the choir idea from the choirs used in Greek dramas and Greek temples.
The Boys Choir -Began in the fourth century, borrowed from the boys choirs used by the pagans.
Funeral Processions and Orations -Borrowed from Greco-Roman paganism in the third century.
The Origins of Our Modem Church Practices The Worship Team -Calvary Chapel in 1965, patterned after the secular rock concert.
Tithing and Clergy Salaries
Tithing -Did not become a widespread Christian practice until the eighth century. The tithe was taken from the 10% rent-charge used in the Roman Empire and later justified by the Old Testament.
Clergy Salaries -Instituted by Constantine in the fourth century.
The Collection Plate –The alms dish appeared in the 14thcentury.Passing a collection plate began in 1662.
Christian Education The Catholic Seminary -The first seminary began as a result of the Council of Trent (1545-1563). The curriculum was based on the teachings of Thomas Aquinas which was a blending of Aristotle's philosophy, Neo-Platonic philosophy, and Christian doctrine.
The Protestant Seminary -Began in Andover, Massachusetts in 1808. It too was built on the teachings of Thomas Aquinas.
The Bible College -Influenced by the revivalism of D.L. Moody (1837-1899), the first two Bible colleges were The Missionary Training Institute (Nyack College, New York) in 1882 and Moody Bible Institute (Chicago) in 1886.
The Sunday School -Invented by Robert Raikes from Britain in 1780. Raikes did not found the Sunday School for the purpose of religious instruction. He founded it to teach poor children the basics of education.
The Youth Pastor -Invented in urban churches in the late 1930s and 40s as a result of seeking to meet the needs of a new sociological class called "teenagers."
Food for thought? Such developments are not necessarily 'wrong' but they can become an institutional model that detracts from more valid expressions of the Life of the Spirit amongst believers.
John
NZ
Upvote
0
BeforeThereWas
Seasoned Warrior
- Mar 14, 2005
- 2,450
- 59
- Faith
- Word of Faith
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
Thanks, John.
Yes, I've known Frank for some time now. I knew him when he was still one of Gene Edwards' "inner circle" (so to speak).
I like your take on the historic information. I've said for a long time that antiquity doesn't automatically make anything right or correct. If that were the case, then we'd have to admit buddhism is right and correct given that it was around a thousand years before Christianity.
Interestingly, just this morning, on the radio, David Jeremiah was hammering on one of his church attendance, guilt-trip rhetoricals. I simply shook my head at what a product he and many others are of the status quo traditions of men, which, as you basically said, renders to none effect the power of God in the lives of so many.
BTW
Last edited:
Upvote
0
New_Wineskin
Contributor
That is up to your group . I wouldn't have a problem with it .
They don't attack Jesus - only the religious . They deserve all of the ridicule they get - and then some .
Upvote
0
Hi everyone,
So many years ago, when I was just saved, and I'm still "being saved" so to speak insofar as my sanctification is concerned, the Lord showed me some of the things that "Pagan Christianity?" talks about.
I said in my private time with the Lord "Lord, there IS a difference between your word & these different Christian groups." "Why are there so many different denominations & groups?" The Lord showed me very simply that people decided to "do their own thing." It was as blunt as that...I didn't realize the weight of this statement at the time.
Now, the Lord has allowed me to go through different denominations & "Christian experiences" and he's showed me how WE ALL chose to do our own thing & reject what the written word says.
You know, if you keep what the written word actually says IN CONTEXT, you'll hear the voice of God?
People always say this "I'm not hearing God's voice." The Lord is concerned about the heart really.
Of course, If you're brainwashed by a particular denomination, you'll think along those lines and be scared to question.
THIS is why Biblical Christianity is paramount.
Plurality of Elders, every member contributing actively & not passively listening & nodding in assent, Allowing the Holy Spirit room to do what he wants instead of canned sermons behind a pulpit/platform, etc.
Yeah, I'm set with denominations & American Christianity as a whole.
To me, the whole thing needs to be reformed & if people aren't willing, SCRAP IT.
Sooner or later, the Lord will judge these things called "churches" and I don't think it'll be nice. Judgement starts with us first, Paul said. Paul also said the world is judged by God, not Christians.
So brothers & sisters, It costs when the Lord shows you that "Hey, this is not my way nor is this pattern you should follow."
God ALWAYS had a pattern...
Genesis: Everything after it's kind...a pattern created by God
Genesis: "Noah's ark".....a pattern given by God
Exodus: Tabernacle of Moses....a pattern given by God
I Kings: The Temple "of Solomon".........a pattern given by God
New Testament, Jesus shows up to establish what?
The pattern of God that the righteous are so by faith, like Abraham their father.
It costs brothers & sisters, when you say NO to denominationalism & to the Pastor church governmental model deeply ingrained in the U.S.
Ex. Join a Christian dating site & state what we state here, Know what'll happen?
No woman will approach you unless they have a heart after God.
Rejection is typical of those who follow the Lord.
Jesus said, They hated me...They will hate you as well.
I've found out that the degree of hate we get for following the Lord rises as we choose consciously to follow Jesus to deeper & deeper degrees called "daily choices."
I too am a sinner saved by grace. I don't just type simple & easy words here & say:
"Denounce the heretics!" LOL......That would be proud & a very simple way to cut off my brothers & sisters in the denominational system of the U.S. & abroad.
Christian television programming is also guilty of pushing many wrongs to the whole world as well! Let's ask the Lord that he would step in & stop the nonsense because, How does one stop mixture?
This is what I see American Christianity to be: mixture....World & Holiness = Clustermess
If pastors, at least, would stand up & say "Repent....God wants you being this way & living this way" by his Holy Spirit and I'm here to help you, a process of healing would occur & mixture, World & The elect, would come to an end.
Food for thought & prayer
Stefos
So many years ago, when I was just saved, and I'm still "being saved" so to speak insofar as my sanctification is concerned, the Lord showed me some of the things that "Pagan Christianity?" talks about.
I said in my private time with the Lord "Lord, there IS a difference between your word & these different Christian groups." "Why are there so many different denominations & groups?" The Lord showed me very simply that people decided to "do their own thing." It was as blunt as that...I didn't realize the weight of this statement at the time.
Now, the Lord has allowed me to go through different denominations & "Christian experiences" and he's showed me how WE ALL chose to do our own thing & reject what the written word says.
You know, if you keep what the written word actually says IN CONTEXT, you'll hear the voice of God?
People always say this "I'm not hearing God's voice." The Lord is concerned about the heart really.
Of course, If you're brainwashed by a particular denomination, you'll think along those lines and be scared to question.
THIS is why Biblical Christianity is paramount.
Plurality of Elders, every member contributing actively & not passively listening & nodding in assent, Allowing the Holy Spirit room to do what he wants instead of canned sermons behind a pulpit/platform, etc.
Yeah, I'm set with denominations & American Christianity as a whole.
To me, the whole thing needs to be reformed & if people aren't willing, SCRAP IT.
Sooner or later, the Lord will judge these things called "churches" and I don't think it'll be nice. Judgement starts with us first, Paul said. Paul also said the world is judged by God, not Christians.
So brothers & sisters, It costs when the Lord shows you that "Hey, this is not my way nor is this pattern you should follow."
God ALWAYS had a pattern...
Genesis: Everything after it's kind...a pattern created by God
Genesis: "Noah's ark".....a pattern given by God
Exodus: Tabernacle of Moses....a pattern given by God
I Kings: The Temple "of Solomon".........a pattern given by God
New Testament, Jesus shows up to establish what?
The pattern of God that the righteous are so by faith, like Abraham their father.
It costs brothers & sisters, when you say NO to denominationalism & to the Pastor church governmental model deeply ingrained in the U.S.
Ex. Join a Christian dating site & state what we state here, Know what'll happen?
No woman will approach you unless they have a heart after God.
Rejection is typical of those who follow the Lord.
Jesus said, They hated me...They will hate you as well.
I've found out that the degree of hate we get for following the Lord rises as we choose consciously to follow Jesus to deeper & deeper degrees called "daily choices."
I too am a sinner saved by grace. I don't just type simple & easy words here & say:
"Denounce the heretics!" LOL......That would be proud & a very simple way to cut off my brothers & sisters in the denominational system of the U.S. & abroad.
Christian television programming is also guilty of pushing many wrongs to the whole world as well! Let's ask the Lord that he would step in & stop the nonsense because, How does one stop mixture?
This is what I see American Christianity to be: mixture....World & Holiness = Clustermess
If pastors, at least, would stand up & say "Repent....God wants you being this way & living this way" by his Holy Spirit and I'm here to help you, a process of healing would occur & mixture, World & The elect, would come to an end.
Food for thought & prayer
Stefos
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Similar threads
