Lost - Series Finale (May 23, 2010)

USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Couldn't stay awake for kimmel. What were the alternates?

Oh! I haven't watched it yet...and have it taped....:sorry:

They're hilarious. It's 3 parodies of the ultimate moments of episodes/series. If others didn't record it, I'm sure Kimmel will have it availible on-line.

I loved hearing from the actors. "Ben" was a very interesting man to listen to...and it's interesting to hear how much they didn't know about the show until it was upon them. Although, I didn't understand "Locke" saying that he didn't know at first that he had been in a wheelchair. And I loved them saying that they were big fans of the show themselves.

The viewing vs. shooting anecdotes were some of my favorites. The best for me was Evie Lilly talking about her trapped in bamboo, avoiding the monster while it was raining scene in The Pilot and how her trembling with fear was not good acting but a reaction to the cold.

I loved hearing from the actors. "Ben" was a very interesting man to listen to...and it's interesting to hear how much they didn't know about the show until it was upon them. Although, I didn't understand "Locke" saying that he didn't know at first that he had been in a wheelchair. And I loved them saying that they were big fans of the show themselves.

Sayid and Jin were great to hear in their true voices. This show's cast was so exceptional. I'll just keep thinking about that! ^_^ ;)

Back during season 1 on another forum I saw a comment from a woman who was married to a Korean saying that Daniel's American accent was so heavy it made understanding his Korean difficult. I've also seen him in interviews, on CSI and The Onion Movie so he wasn't as striking as Naveen. It just seemed weird to hear him with a UK accent even though I know he's Indian, not Arabic. The most interesting one for me was Yun Jun. Her Korean accent bled through in more of her interviews than any English speaking scene she ever appeared in on the show.

I was going to mention Evangeline's Canadian accent, but instead I'll note that Fish Burger and Sign of the Fish haven't posted to Lost threads in a while. I miss their participation as much as I'll miss lost.
 
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Okay, so I got one thing right. A couple of years ago, I predicted that the series would end with Jack's eye (I might be able to find the thread if I looked around enough).

I was disappointed in one thing. I thought Jack was going to become a white smoke creature. It would have been fitting to have the "Black-White" contrast in the results of going down the hole for the two different reasons.

The ending confused me quite a bit. Do Jack and Juliette have a son or not? Why was Penny in the church, she was never on the island? What about Sun and Jin's daughter? Was the pilot in the church?

Just wanted to say I did remember someone saying about the eye being the last scene...Sorry I didn't recall who said it, but I thought of that last night when they showed Jack's eye close.

I did like that part of the ending.
 
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snoochface

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Okay, some people (here and elsewhere) are disappointed, but overall I thought it was perfect.

Yes, a LOT of the mythology got left behind, but I kind of expected that. There were just too many questions on mythology to wrap up, and it would have taken almost another season of 16 tediously didactic episodes to answer all the questions (like Across the Sea - not one of my favorites, but that's what answering all the questions would have looked like, I'm afraid).

So, I wasn't expecting much in the way of mythology answers, and was hoping for a very good resolution to the character stories. I think we got that. Some died on the island, some stayed on the island long after (Hurley and Ben), some got off the island for a third time (Kate!) and went on to live lives of however-many-years (Richard aging for the first time, awesome, Kate, Claire, and Sawyer getting to go back to their lives for a while).

But in the end, the years they spent together on the island were the best years of their lives, so when it was time for all of them to finally let go of this life and move on, they wanted to do so together. Enter the sideways-world, the many "awakenings" (each reunion made me cry), and the final meeting in the church.

How appropriate that Ben felt he still had things to work out and wouldn't be going into the church with them. His time on the island with them was very much not one of the best times of their lives. But Hurley gave him a chance to be special as his #2. Great ending for him.

I'm so sorry to see this show go, but I'm happy with the way it went out. The final scene, Jack closing his eye, and Vincent laying down beside him to comfort him on his way out -- it makes me teary-eyed just writing about it.
 
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USincognito

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Didn't get enough sleeep and need to sign off soon, but I'll comment more later...

Couldn't stay awake for kimmel. What were the alternates?

I'm not going to use spoiler tags for people who recorded it (like LTB) so I'll be slightly enigmatic.

Survivor, The Sopranos, Bob Newhart.

Watch and enjoy. :cool:
 
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FatBurger

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I know it makes for dramatic tv but wouldn't a doctor tell everyone to get away from the plane as fast as possible?

I didn't notice it the first time around because I hadn't had a kid yet, but now that I do, I realized that a doctor would never say "How many months pregnant are you?" - they'd ask how many weeks.

The flash sideways being a sort of afterworld is comparable to some (mostly tribal and ignored) afterworld schemes where spirits take up residence for a while in a world very similiar to the one in which they left. Some Buddhist/hindu type religions feature something vaguely similiar, though my memory is more than a little hazy here.

Or purgatory...

Who or what was the 'seed' person/event for the creation of the 'flash sideways' realm? Jack? Hurley? I figure somebody must have 'changed the rules' so that deceased spirits were no longer trapped on the island, but instead had a way out. Probably Hurley. Maybe, though, it had something to do with the water cavern?
Jack for sure, he's always been the pivotal character of the show.

Additional thought: who put the plug in the water cavern to start with? And was it ever pulled out before, say at some point during Jacobs long reign? (he seemed to have some idea what was down there).

I think the answer is that it was created a long time ago, and that's all part of the mythology of the island that is supposed to stay a mystery.

I'm personally more interested in how Widmore seemed to know so much about what was down there. They seemed to make it clear that Jacob had never gone inside, so how would Widmore know?


Ok...so a few folks got away on the plane, and a few others remained behind on the island. Not exactly a tidy ending, everybody all split up like that. Did the plane make it back to civilization? Or did it crash (wondering about the fuel situation).

Spinoff?

Meanwhile, we also end up with a badly battered Desmond *still* stuck on the island, away from his beloved Penny. I have to wonder, given the way he behaved in the Flash Sideways and the way he connected back and forth so readily, just how much time he spent on the island after being pulled out of that cave. Did Hurley try dumping the Guardian job on him later on?

I'm guessing Hurley (as the new Jacob) helped him get off the island.

All in all...there might be material enough here for a movie or three, possibly a sequil series...

That was the original plan actually - a few seasons followed by a movie.

...I was hoping it would be for a grander purpose than "hey, we're all dead".

Definitely, I was waiting for the "We're going back to the island" or "We need to help our loved ones still alive".

I'd love to get a glimpse of how those two worked together on the Island, lol.

That can be added to the list of spinoff ideas. Also on the list: a Miles/Sawyer cop show.

On a far more negative note, I hated - absolutely HATED - that Sayid ended up with Shannon in the afterlife. Come on; Nadia was his true love, not blondie.

I agree 100%. I think the intention was to show what Christian(?) said - that their time on the island was the most important part of their lives.

And for crying out loud, if they could get Juliette, Shannon, and Boone back for cameos, then why couldn't they find a way to drag Mr. Ecko back to the set just for one appearance.

He left the show of his own choice, so it's possible he didn't want to come back for some reason.

Why was Walt so special? And why weren't women able to have children on the Island after the "Incident"?

I think those might be the two biggest questions that I think should have been answered.

The ending confused me quite a bit. Do Jack and Juliette have a son or not? Why was Penny in the church, she was never on the island? What about Sun and Jin's daughter? Was the pilot in the church?

Jack and Juliet's son was a little odd, I'm not sure what he was supposed to represent. Sun and Jin's daughter probably isn't dead yet, and Lapidus might not be either? We can add Desmond and Penny's son to the list too.


...but instead I'll note that Fish Burger....

Who? ;)
 
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FatBurger

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First off, I'm not sure it would be possible to make a finale that would satisfy everybody. Everyone wants something different from the end, and there's only so much you can do when expectations are sky high. I didn't, however, see anything that can be offered as proof that they always had the same vision for the end. I heard (and haven't verified) that Cuseloff claimed the white and black rocks would be the proof that things were planned out in advance. I'd say it's perhaps evidence, but not proof.

With Lost, as with any large, multi-part story with lots of intriguing details, I see the ending as having two potential goals:
1. Explaining the small (or large) mysteries
2. Providing a satisfactory ending to the plot

In general, as long as either are achieved, I'll be happy. Last night, Lost came close on both, but didn't quite make it on either. I'll post some random thoughts, since I'm still thinking it all through anyway.

  • In the end, Dharma ended up being Jacob breakfast (a red herring). I think the intent was to show that Dharma was one of many groups that wanted to "unlock" the island, and shouldn't be allowed to do so. In that sense, Dharma itself is not important, but what Dharma did is. The group MIB was with was sort of an early version of Dharma. I was really hoping they'd say this a little more explicitly - something like Mother saying "It's happened before and will happen again", but it didn't quite get there. If you had asked me two seasons ago if I'd be happy not finding out more about Dharma, I would have said no way. As it stands, I'm moderately satisfied.
  • Why can't women have babies on the island? It would be ok as an unsolved mystery if they hadn't been so specific about it over the years. There's practically a checklist to run through to make sure you fit the criteria for your child to live or die.
  • Why did the Others take Walt? Similar to the issue above, I'd be fine with Walt's "specialness" being a mystery except that Ben HAS TO know why they took him, what experiments they did on him, and why.
  • The final ending was completely over the top, and perhaps barely saved by the fact that we've all become so attached to these characters over the years. It was still cheesy, but not nearly as cheesy as it would have been otherwise.
  • At first I was annoyed that the on-island ending for the show was all about Jacob and MIB. But then I realized that it really wasn't - it was about saving the island. All these people were brought to the island via a plane crash to save it, and eventually they did - they destroyed the Swan, they destroyed Smokey, etc. The island is now back as it was the earliest we ever saw it - with Mother a couple of weeks ago. It's now back at peace and at rest. That realization helped me reconcile the ending to a large extent.
  • The island, and the flash sideways, are purgatory (or whatever other-religious or non-religious term you want to use). This is extremely lame.
  • From one perspective, the show ended exactly how I figured it would - with a few hints that point you to answers for a lot of the mysteries. The best example is Dharma - yes, we didn't find out exactly who Alvar Hanso is, or why Dharma decided the Pearl was necessary, but we know for the most part what Dharma's significance is in relation to the island.
  • The show, from the start, was about two things: the characters and the island. The show ended by giving happy endings to two things: the characters and the island. That gives me some satisfaction except (as someone else already said), we don't know what happens to the half dozen people who took off in the Ajira plane. Even if they'd added a 5 second shot of Kate kooking back through the plane window at the island, I think it would have gone a long ways towards saying they all made it back to civilization. Another option would be Miles asking Lapidus how things look, and Lapidus confidently responding with something like "It looks like we'll make it home".
  • Lost was, in a large part, about science vs faith. I think the show itself faced this same conundrum - if you explain everything, you're going the way of science. If you leave things mysterious, you're going the way of faith. If you go to either extreme, there will be a group of fans upset by the ending. I think they went a little too far on the faith side personally, but I'm not totally sure yet. It's hard to say whether getting exactly in the middle will be a happy medium, or a good way to please nobody.
 
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appleofhiseye

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I don't understand the island being purgatory when Christian clearly told Jack, "Some died before you; some died LONG after." Thoughts?

Me neither. Christian also said that Jack's experience on the island was a very important part of his LIFE. Right?

If anything just the alternate reality flashes could be viewed as a type of purgatory, but I think of it as more of a waiting place until a soul realizes his death, and it's time to move on.(I'm not catholic, and I have no understanding of purgatory).

I think of the island as an actual place,( maybe a doorway to the afterlife,- the light and the plug.) But the people on it are living people.
 
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desmalia

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For me it came down to the last 10 minutes. I was expecting some sort of juxtoposition of the post-bomb story line to merge with the sideways story line. The least satisfying resolution I could think of was... well, the one they came up with. And I'm still not sure if they died in the initial crash or when Juliette set off the bomb.
That's exactly how I feel about it. I liked how they finished things off with so many characters reuniting. But the last 10 minutes really didn't tie things up. It seemed like an easy way out. Even if they included a suspenseful play-out of how they created this "happy place" that would have helped.

  • Why did the Others take Walt? Similar to the issue above, I'd be fine with Walt's "specialness" being a mystery except that Ben HAS TO know why they took him, what experiments they did on him, and why.
That was very disappointing. It doesn't look like Walt was any part of the finale and that's just wrong, IMHO.

  • The island, and the flash sideways, are purgatory (or whatever other-religious or non-religious term you want to use). This is extremely lame.
LOL, that's exactly the word that came to mind for me as well.

  • Lost was, in a large part, about science vs faith. I think the show itself faced this same conundrum - if you explain everything, you're going the way of science. If you leave things mysterious, you're going the way of faith. If you go to either extreme, there will be a group of fans upset by the ending. I think they went a little too far on the faith side personally, but I'm not totally sure yet. It's hard to say whether getting exactly in the middle will be a happy medium, or a good way to please nobody.
That's my take as well. I think it needed to lean more heavily towards the science side of it in order to solve at least some of the mysteries. The faith angle came across as more of an easy way to explain everything away. The death or purgatory thing was barely a step up from it all being a dream.

I did like the very final scene with Jack back where he started, the plane overhead, Vincent next to him, and his eye closing. And I liked Hugo being the guardian. I'd been hoping (and suspecting for a while) that it would end up being him.
 
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snoochface

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I think the "why can't women carry babies to term" question was answered with The Incident, wasn't it? The atmospheric residue from the hydrogen bomb going off in 1977 caused the baby problem. That's how I've been seeing it anyway. I haven't considered it an unanswered question.
 
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I don't understand the island being purgatory when Christian clearly told Jack, "Some died before you; some died LONG after." Thoughts?

I'm using purgatory more as a general term than a theological concept, but think about Michael's conversation with Hurley - the whispers are people who were "unable to move on".

How that relates to the flash sideways, we don't know. Maybe Hurley changed that?

at the end when they showed the wreckage on the beach, do you think that was flight 815 or did the Ajira plane crash killing Lapidus, Miles, Kate, James, Claire, and Richard?

Nobody knows, and nobody even knows if that was added by Lost or ABC.
 
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snoochface

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I don't understand the island being purgatory when Christian clearly told Jack, "Some died before you; some died LONG after." Thoughts?

Me neither. Christian also said that Jack's experience on the island was a very important part of his LIFE. Right?

If anything just the alternate reality flashes could be viewed as a type of purgatory, but I think of it as more of a waiting place until a soul realizes his death, and it's time to move on.(I'm not catholic, and I have no understanding of purgatory).

I think of the island as an actual place,( maybe a doorway to the afterlife,- the light and the plug.) But the people on it are living people.

I think everything that happened on the island, right up to Jack dying and beyond that to Hurley being the new Jacob with Ben as his #2, was all reality and life. Christian said the sideways time was a place they all created together so they could find each other again, so they could let go and move on with the people who shared the most important part of their lives.

The sideways time, where "there is no 'now' here", is the purgatory. Having no "now" (hence no time) people could be there who died early on in the series, like Boone & Shannon, and people who presumably lived long beyond the series, like Hurley.
 
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I think the "why can't women carry babies to term" question was answered with The Incident, wasn't it? The atmospheric residue from the hydrogen bomb going off in 1977 caused the baby problem. That's how I've been seeing it anyway. I haven't considered it an unanswered question.

That's the most likely, but think of these three scenarios:

Woman A concieves, and the next day is on the island for essentially the whole of her pregnancy. There are no problems.
Woman B concieves on island, is on the island for essentially the whole of her pregnancy, goes off island for the birth, and is fine.
Woman C conceives on island, goes off island for essentially the whole of her pregnancy, goes back on island for the birth, and it ends in tragedy.


That doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me :sorry:
 
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The_Evelyonian

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at the end when they showed the wreckage on the beach, do you think that was flight 815 or did the Ajira plane crash killing Lapidus, Miles, Kate, James, Claire, and Richard?

It was Oceanic 815. The Ajira flight was a 737. 737's have engines with slightly triangular intakes. The wreckage on the beach had circular intakes, much more consistent with a 777 (Oceanic 815) than a 737
 
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