Lost - Series Finale (May 23, 2010)

[snoochface]

Boy I sure felt unsettled after it ended.

Did anybody notice the stained glass window in the church when Jack was approaching Christians coffin? That kind of tainted everything for me.

Yeah kind of universal "all roads lead to heaven" there.

Also, I'm curious. Why wasn't Michael there? Because his name was never written on the wall? I don't think Boone's, Shannon's or Libby's names were on the wall either but they were all there...

I still think Michael wasn't there because he was, for some reason, trapped on the island as a whisperer. He's the island whisperer, LOL. But yeah, he told Hurley that's what the whispers were, so I guess for some reason he didn't get to move on?

That is an interesting perspective. Wouldn't that contradict what Christian said about the church though? Something along the lines of "you all built this place together".

Yeah, he said, "You built this place together so you could find each other." I took that to mean the entire sideways-time as opposed to the final church scene, but yeah I'm not sure how that would fit into that theory.

 

[Wicked Willow]

I still think Michael wasn't there because he was, for some reason, trapped on the island as a whisperer. He's the island whisperer, LOL. But yeah, he told Hurley that's what the whispers were, so I guess for some reason he didn't get to move on?

You do know that the whispers in the jungle were originally intended to be the "Others", right? Lindelof et.al. admitted as much, and the "purgatory whisperers" who are trapped on the island are just a last-minute retcon. (Which, by the way, turns out to be quite problematic :
Michael pretty much redeemed himself on the freighter, much more so than, say, Ben Linus ever did. So in terms of "cosmic justice", the self-sacrificing Michael would be far more likely to make it to the Big Finish than the unabashed murderer Ben, whose contribution to his redemption on several counts of premeditated murder pretty much amounted to saying "I'm really sorry."
And then, there's the whole question of Christian Shepard being "explained away" as the MiB-impersonator: remember the moment Michael died on the freighter, beyond the island's perimeter? Do you remember who appeared to him there, announcing: "You can go now"?
Well, the MiB couldn't leave the island, nor was Michael in the Flash-Sideways-Purgatory.

Those who still insist that the creators *do* have all the answers engage in wishful thinking, IMHO. I still think that the whole thing just became too large to contain for them, and NOT on account of unanswered questions, but on account of the *answered* ones.

Let's look at the numbers once more: the problem with the numbers isn't the mysteries, it's the explanations offered.
1. The numbers were broadcasted by a Dharma station and appeared on the Hatch. They also happened to be the code to the emergency system that prevented a new incident. (And that's a NICE mystery there! I really liked it.)
2. These numbers cause some weird fluctuations in probability, attracting money and misfortune in equal measure. (Still no complaints from me: it just adds to the mystery behind it all.)

Now, here's the explanations offered by the creators:
a) The numbers are coordinates Jacob penned down while looking for potential candidates. (Still pretty mysterious, and certainly offering a lot of potential in terms of the whole fate vs. coincidence-theme.)
b) The candidates weren't really special; they were just people whose lives sucked sufficiently to make guardianship of the island look like a genuine improvement. (And here's where the coordinate-numbers lose their significance: they were just random numbers pointing to random people with somewhat broken biographies.)
c) The randomly picked candidates could be put on or off the list on account of their background: if their lot improved, they were crossed out - but at the same time, they could be back on the list if they "wanted in". (So in the end, the numbers mean less than squat.)

 

[ZephyrWiccan]

Boy I sure felt unsettled after it ended.

Did anybody notice the stained glass window in the church when Jack was approaching Christians coffin? That kind of tainted everything for me.

Also, I'm curious. Why wasn't Michael there? Because his name was never written on the wall? I don't think Boone's, Shannon's or Libby's names were on the wall either but they were all there...




That is an interesting perspective. Wouldn't that contradict what Christian said about the church though? Something along the lines of "you all built this place together".

Michael wasn't there, IMO, because he's still trapped as a ghost on the island for what he did (killing Ana Lucia and Libby).

 

[Gnarwhal]

It sounds like that's the general consensus for Michael not appearing in the finale, I'm inclined to agree. Even though he did seem to essentially redeem himself on the freighter as Wicked Willow said.

 

[FatBurger]

I read an interesting take on the ending today. The theory was that this ending, the meeting in the church, was for Jack's "letting go" only, not necessarily for everyone else's. If it were for everyone, lots of other people would have been in the church - Hurley's parents, Nadia for Sayid, Clementine for Sawyer, Helen for Locke, etc. They all pass through their own version of the church at some point, with their own "most important people in their lives", but they came together at this time, in this church, for Jack.

I think that makes some sense actually. I wouldn't expect to see Helen there either way, since Locke wasn't with her in real life, only in the fake one.

One problem is why show the parts happening to everyone else and not just the parts with Jack? Obviously from our point of view it's to maintain the mystery.

Here's a slight modification: it was actually everyone, but it was from Jacke's perspective. Sayid was with Shannon because that's who Jack knew, but maybe for Sayid, he was with Nadia. Maybe Hurley's parents were there, but they weren't important to Jack, so they weren't there from Jack's point of view (which is also our point of view).

It could also explain Michael - Jack hadn't forgiven him, so he's sort of blocking him out, though maybe for someone else (Locke? Kate?) he's there. It would also explain why Ben doesn't enter the church - Jack hasn't completely forgiven him either. Desmond is the person working to bring them all together, because he's the one who helped Jack closest to the end of his life.

That is an interesting perspective. Wouldn't that contradict what Christian said about the church though? Something along the lines of "you all built this place together".

Not necessarily. Think of it this way - the memories you have of your life so far have been created by you and others. But they're still your memories, from your perspective.

 

[FatBurger]

It sounds like that's the general consensus for Michael not appearing in the finale, I'm inclined to agree. Even though he did seem to essentially redeem himself on the freighter as Wicked Willow said.

He still appeared to Hurley on the island long after he redeemed himself.

 

[snoochface]

It sounds like that's the general consensus for Michael not appearing in the finale, I'm inclined to agree. Even though he did seem to essentially redeem himself on the freighter as Wicked Willow said.

Another thought on Michael, he might have redeemed himself but he might not have forgiven himself. He could be in a kind of self-imposed exile that keeps him an island whisperer, because HE hasn't let go yet.

Here's a slight modification: it was actually everyone, but it was from Jacke's perspective. Sayid was with Shannon because that's who Jack knew, but maybe for Sayid, he was with Nadia. Maybe Hurley's parents were there, but they weren't important to Jack, so they weren't there from Jack's point of view (which is also our point of view).

It could also explain Michael - Jack hadn't forgiven him, so he's sort of blocking him out, though maybe for someone else (Locke? Kate?) he's there. It would also explain why Ben doesn't enter the church - Jack hasn't completely forgiven him either. Desmond is the person working to bring them all together, because he's the one who helped Jack closest to the end of his life.

I like it.

 

[Wicked Willow]

Another thought on Michael, he might have redeemed himself but he might not have forgiven himself. He could be in a kind of self-imposed exile that keeps him an island whisperer, because HE hasn't let go yet.

The same would apply to Ben, or even more so. Aye?

Here's a funny video I stumbled across. Some of those questions are *clearly* nothing more than just humour, some *have* been answered, some needn't be answered imho, and some were at least sufficiently hinted at to make it possible for us to make informed guesses - yet still, there are a couple of those that really *should* have been answered and/or hinted at. (Including inconsistencies in the continuity: Jack's dad appearing beyond the island's perimeter, for example.)

YouTube - Lost Unanswered Question

 

[snoochface]

The same would apply to Ben, or even more so. Aye?

Maybe so. He had a very different ending to his real life than Michael did. Michael's ended rather abruptly, without a lot of opportunity to atone for the things he did despite his final redemptive choices, whereas Ben had presumably decades, perhaps centuries, as Hurley's #2.

Ben night not have entered the church because he was waiting for Alex, or Annie, to pass through their own "sideways/purgatory" stories, or he might have been working through his own letting go issues. Who knows, maybe at the time we're seeing Ben outside the church, he is still whispering on the island, or maybe he never had to because of the time he had available to change his life while he was living it.

This, to me, is one of the most significant differences in the way we watched the show. I like having this room for interpretation and analysis, I like having some of the answers not given to us. And, if I'm being honest, I like putting my faith in the writers to deliver the story they meant to deliver to me, their vision, even if I still have questions at the end of it. I don't really know you, but I suspect your enjoyment came more from being able to figure out the answers to the questions and seeing if the theories panned out, so not having all the mysteries solved leaves you hanging and wanting more.

 

[Wicked Willow]

Nah, I enjoy my share of mysteries. In fact, I'm pretty sure that answering *all* of the open questions would have totally ruined the show.
(Remember George Lucas's "midichlorians"? Way to spoil a fictional universe by offering ridiculous explanations to mystical concepts!)

However, I can't quite shake the impression that with LOST, even the creators didn't know what they were doing, making it up as they went along and creating numerous inconsistencies in the process. I don't need answers on a silver platter - but I do need consistency.

As it is, I get the impression that Lindelof and Carlton really ARE the "men behind the curtain", and the viewers who still think that there were any answers to begin with are like the people who insist that the emperor wears fancy clothes, because not seeing them would mean that one had wasted one's time.

 

[desmalia]

Nah, I enjoy my share of mysteries. In fact, I'm pretty sure that answering *all* of the open questions would have totally ruined the show.

I can totally agree with this. It's good to leave some mystery along the way. And I didn't expect every single question could be answered in such a short period of time.

However, I can't quite shake the impression that with LOST, even the creators didn't know what they were doing, making it up as they went along and creating numerous inconsistencies in the process. I don't need answers on a silver platter - but I do need consistency.

BINGO. That's all I was looking for as well.

As it is, I get the impression that Lindelof and Carlton really ARE the "men behind the curtain", and the viewers who still think that there were any answers to begin with are like the people who insist that the emperor wears fancy clothes, because not seeing them would mean that one had wasted one's time.

Yep, I was one who thought they had it all mapped out. That's what I'd read anyway. But now I'm thinking they had no idea, and did indeed make much of it up as they went along. And that has somewhat changed how I view the whole series. Though it was one awesome ride, so I can't really complain too much. I even managed to get DH hooked on it, and he doesn't generally care for dramas or sci-fi.

I think maybe something else that keeps bugging me is how they handled the faith side of the faith vs. science issue. I think they actually handled it very clumsily in the end. Earlier on with Locke it was more consistent and intriguing. But eventually it's like all reason was tossed to the wind, which kinda suggests that perhaps the writers simply do not understand or appreciate faith.

Ah, but what's done is done. When I get too frustrated remembering what I didn't like about the end I remember that scene with Sawyer and Juliet reuniting and it's all good. That was such a great scene.

 

[alex4815162342]

Wow, what a finale!

I'm actually glad Darlton went the emotional, character-driven route with this episode (I know JJ came up with the original ending idea, but Darlton did a good job of working up to it imo.) I preferred this ending to one that would have tried to cram answers in, it was just too late for that. Leaving most of the answers up to fan theories was the right way to go, especially seeing the way some of the "official" answers that we got were rushed or a bit contradictory in recent seasons.

I'm going to re-watch the series from the beginning as soon as I can. The finale definitely got me re-attached to some of the characters that I thought were getting a bit stale, so it'll be cool to re-watch with the end in mind.

 

[Judy02]

Overall I really liked it. Although part of me did hope that they would all go back home and live some happy ever after, blissful existence there, but I think they wrapped it up fairly nicely. Quite a strong religious theme to death at the end which I wasn't quite expecting.

One thing I didn't get, maybe I need to watch it but what made the Man in Black (Jacob's brother) immortal? Was it since he went into that cave of light, the heart of the island?
I love how the show starts and ends with Jack lying on the ground, when his eyes first open and then close. Jack's death - oh so very Jack style haha!

Other than to save his friends lives though, I still don't really fully understand, what was so important about saving the island...?

I'm really going to miss this show, so sad it's gone, but I think they probably did carry it on for as long as possible! I hope there's something else out there we can all get this hooked on again sometime haha!

 

[suzybeezy]

I heard talks that they're already thinking possible movie or books - so we they may have intentionally left it with so many unanswered questions

 

[A Catholic Friend]

They could have ended any show this way. Take your favorite show past or present. Take them into the future where they are all old or whatever.

They can all meet up in the afterlife in a church and smile as they go through the door towards the light.

There really was no need for the "island". It was just a plot device, a "MacGuffin".

 

[alexsilvacorp]

None of that mattered... the Island, the hatch, Jacob or smokey....

I believe we have to look at the intentions from the creators perspective. I completely disagree with the theory that they all died at the crash and that can be confirmed by the introduction of different people at the island in a later time.

I think what is important is the spiritual message the authors wanted to pass on, is my opinion that this message was " all paths lead to God " and, of course, as a christian I disagree with that. But look for yourself, all those characters died from different causes and at different times but at the end they met again to move forward to a different plan.... they were evolving, excepted Ben who still had to work his way up.

Look at the window behind Jack's father... it has the simbols for christianity, islamism, Judaism, Budhism, etc... confirming that all paths lead to God.

In saying that nothing really mattered, because in the end regardless of who died at the island or in the mainland or at what time, they all went to the same place they build to reconnect. According to Jack's father they all wanted to meet again because the time they spent together was the most significant in their lives, therefore this could be applied to anyone of us, it could be any group of people anywhere... your church, your family, your friends.... you can all have different idea of who God is but in the end "all paths lead to God". So the island and everything that happaned is insignificant, as it will be everything in your life after you die and that's why they didn't care about explainig everything.

Is my opinion though that only Jesus can lead to God, he is the only path...

God Bless you.

 

[If Not For Grace]

I gotta admit I'm a bit disappointed

too.


I was Never so disappointed in a show ending in my life, Great job for 6.9 years just to screw it all in the end. JMHO

 

[AirPo]

too.


I was Never so disappointed in a show ending in my life, Great job for 6.9 years just to screw it all in the end. JMHO

Did you just watch the end, or are you just getting around to commenting on it?

 

[If Not For Grace]

Both

 

[Judy02]

I'm rewatching Lost at the moment, about half way through season 2. It's quite strange watching it the 2nd time round The first 2 seasons seem so slow paced in comparison to the later ones.

But yeah, personally I think that the writers were possibly too ambitious in the beginning and couldn't come up with a good enough ending, in my opinion anyway Such an anti climax! Can't believe it's been almost a year since the last season first aired.