Again, it is not I who will convince you, if Scripture does not...
Well your sarcasm aside, (since a constant use of sarcasm can tend to dilute its power and also obscure your meanings, I suggest you use it more sparingly).
Hello, Mike. Im sorry that you took it as sarcasm. It was not. Whatever convictions that occur in our hearts, it is from our own belief, and from the Spirit of God. I have friends who are agnostic; as depressing (and oftimes discouraging) as it is, for me to KNOW the Truth, and to also know that if they die in their unbelief they will certainly perish---nevertheless I understand that it is NOT I who will convince them. There is only one Savior, only one who calls and cleanses. My friends will not accept Him unless and until they are ready.
In discussing theology, I strive to be open and honest with myself. I am willing to change---I freely admit I do not have all of the answers. I do have some, and possess some understanding of Scripture. I would accept predestined-election based on verses like John 15:16 and Eph 1:4-12, were it not for the existance of so many other verses that speak of falling-from-salvation, see that you do not live in the flesh as do the heathens, take care that you not have an evil unbelieving heart even to falling away from the living God, etcetera. If I accept predestination, I must then deal with absolute
contradictions. So in the pursuit of truth and understanding, I read the whole, in context, and arrive at the OSNAS belief. In that, I have, illuminated-for-me, the supposed-OSAS verses in harmony with OSNAS. What I ask, is can the OSNAS verses be harmonized with the OSAS view?
Which, you have striven to do. Regarding 1Jn1:8, you say:
Is he speaking about them losing their salvation? No, for salvation isn't a reward. But I do not think the use of the word, reward, necessarily negates the free-gift-of-grace aspect of our salvation. In Luke 6:23 Jesus says:
Be glad in that day and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in Heaven. In Col3:23-24,
Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve. What is the inheritace? It is
eternal life.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in Heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through (your) faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1Pet1:3-5 So, the term REWARD, is often interchangeable with INHERITANCE...
The wicked will be rewarded for their unrighteousness, so too shall we be rewarded for our righteousness. And SINCE our righteousness is not OURS, but rather the righteousness of CHRIST that we received when we received Him, then the reward is not earned, is it?
Notice the change in John's direction from the previous verse. He goes from "yourselves" to "everyone" (or "anyone"). He no longer is directing it personally at the chosen lady and her children. Rather, by this change is giving them advice on how to relate to false professors. In every group of believers there are those who don't believe. Judas for example. The enemy likes to sow the tares in among the wheat. John is explaining to them how to know (one way anyhow) who is not born of God: namely those who continue in sin and continually stray from the accepted teachings.
I dont follow your logic here. He starts, speaking to Christians, saying: Watch
YOURSELVES, that
YOU do not lose what we (you) have accomplished... And in the SAME BREATH, he continues: Anyone who goes too far... You do not see this as a warning? TO the chosen lady and her children? Is not,
LOSE WHAT YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED isnt that exactly the same thing as:
GOES TOO FAR & DOESNT ABIDE IN CHRIST ? I cant understand how it could be different. Watch yourselves that you do not lose what we (you) have accomplished. Isnt it, contextually,
POSSIBLE to
lose what was accomplished? How would you LOSE it? By, going too far and not abiding in the teachings of Christ??? Is it really logical, or intellectually honest, to contend that John said:
Watch yourselves that you do not LOSE what was accomplished. ANYONE ELSE BUT YOU (because YOU are SAVED) who GOES TOO FAR AND DOES NOT ABIDE in Christs teachings (but THEY were ALWAYS TOO FAR from the START cause they were NEVER SAVED), well those NEVER-SAVED-TO-BEGIN-WITH DO NOT HAVE GOD!---and Im only sayin this RHETORICALLY, cause its IMPOSSIBLE for YOU to go too far... Do you really believe this was Johns intent of this writing?
Let me see if I understand you. The Word created faith in your heart unto salvation and because of that you surrendered to Him. Then you said you had to recieve Him. Wouldn't "surrendering to Him" "and receiving CHRIST" be the same? If so then it could be said you are saying that you recieved Him because of that Word created faith in your heart unto salvation?
Faith-unto-salvation, and belief are one-in-the-same. Specifically,
QUALIFIED belief, doing Gods will, humbled, repentant,
BORN AGAIN. All the same. And no, the Word did not create that faith/belief/surrender in my heart, I HEARD the WORD, and I
became CONVICTED. Thus, it was CONVICTION that created the belief to salvation. With the HEART man BELIEVES, resulting in righteousness, and with the TONGUE he CONFESSES, resulting in salvation. I am a conscious, sentient, being---I am quite capable of believing in something, or not.
This wasn't part of my question, but you trelling us why you think salvation isnt secure. Salvation is being saved from Hell, or not going there. If you think you could still go there, you don't think you are yet saved from it. If salvation is being saved from going to hell, then you don't think you are yet saved...
Salvation is NOT being saved from Hell. Salvation is JESUS-IN-YOU. Not entering Hell as we DESERVE is but the CONSEQUENCE of Jesus-IN-us. If salvation is abiding in Him, why would it be impossible to NOT ABIDE? If it was our CHOICE initially to RECEIVE Him, how would we not retain the ability to choose to REJECT Him, later?
But what do you say can truly save you? You must be diligent, you must keep yourself from
being hardened from sin. You YOU. YOU!!!
Your complaint is not against
Ben johnson---your complaint here is against Peter and Paul. And Jude. And James. And John. Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and election of you---for as long as you practice these things ...the ENTRANCE TO HEAVEN will be provided to you! Take care, brethren, that there not be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God. Encourage one another ...that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
For we have become partakers of Christ,
IF we hold fast the beginning of our assurance FIRM UNTIL THE END. 1Pet1, Heb3. It is precisely because of these verses, and so many others (like Col1:22-23), that I cannot accomodate the OSAS doctrine, Scripturally...
How then can you boast NOW about being saved when when you don't know you will be saved, and you don't know you will abide. You cannot call what you have salvation.
I only believe what I read in
Scripture. Salvation is believing in Christ. Believing, in the sense that I have been crucified with Christ, no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. He who HAS the Son has the (eternal) life. If I recognize that I am Human, capable of being deceived, but if I am diligent to abide in Him, to keeping myself in the love of Christ (Jd21---what do you think Jude MEANT?), how can you say, you dont know you are saved, you dont know you will abide?
If salvation is NOT
abiding in Christ, then what is it?