Julianne Malveaux, Semi-regular USA Today Columnist: USA, Bush Are 'Terrorists'

Jonathan David

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It is precisely a reference to the words of Malcolm X and the death of JFK... probably why it ticks people off so much.... Ward Churchill got in trouble for using the same reference (amongst others) when he titled his paper "Some people push back: On the politics of roosting chickens"

I was not aware of that last part of Malcolm X's comment... I wonder if she was referenceing it also or if she was simply saying that you reap what you sow.... I certainly didn't see any glee in her comments.


MaryS said:
The last time I remember hearing that ideology was after John F. Kennedy died and Malcolm X wasn't the only one to use it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X
(excerpt:
following the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Malcolm delivered a speech as he regularly would. However, when asked to comment upon the assassination, he replied that it was a case of "chickens coming home to roost" – that the violence that JFK had failed to stop, and at times refused to rein in had come around to claim his life. Most explosively, he then added that with his country origins, "Chickens coming home to roost never made me sad. It only made me glad."
 
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Sinai

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jsn112 said:
Why is free speech a one way street?
It's not. Both sides have the freedom of speech--but conservatives tend to have greater access to talk radio programs, while liberals tend to have greater access to the rest of the media.

Both groups have used their "freedom of speech" to make some incredibly dumb comments that show the speaker fails to understand what he or she is talking about, though on the issue raised in the OP the far left seems to have largely cornered the market. About the only comment from the far right that I can recall offhand that may rank up there (or should that be down there?) was Jerry Falwell's claim that the moral tone of America was to blame for the 9/11 attacks.....
 
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MaryS

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Jonathan David said:
It is precisely a reference to the words of Malcolm X and the death of JFK... probably why it ticks people off so much...."

Speaking of "chickens coming home to roost", it's eerie how JFK's brother was murdered:

In 1968, Robert Kennedy ran for President on the Democratic ticket. In June 1968, he took his campaign to California. In fact, he won the Californian primary on June 5, 1968, the anniversary of the outbreak of the Six-Day War. Kennedy's staff requested a photo opportunity with Yitzhak Rabin, the Chief of Staff in Israel during that war and was then Israel's Ambassador to the U.S., to commemorate the day.

However, that photo opportunity never took place. On that evening, Kennedy was shot to death by a young Jerusalem-born Muslim named Sirhan Bishara Sirhan. As Rabin wrote in his memoirs: "The American people were so dazed by what they perceived as the senseless act of a madman that they could not begin to fathom its political significance."

What was its political significance? According to a report made by a special
counsel to the L.A. County District Attorney's office, Sirhan shot Kennedy for his support of Israel, and had been planning the assassination for months. In an outburst during his trial, he confessed, "I killed Robert Kennedy willfully,
premeditatedly, and with twenty years of malice aforethought." [Twenty years, of course, date back to Israel's declaration of nationhood in 1948.] In a notebook found in Sirhan's apartment, investigators found a passage written on May 18, 1968 at 9:45 AM: "Robert F. Kennedy must be assassinated before 5 June 68."- the first anniversary of the beginning of the Six-Day War.

It is well known that Robert Kennedy, John's Attorney General and younger brother, was also one of the President's most trusted advisors. What isn't so well known is that it was a younger Robert Kennedy, fresh out of Harvard and reporting for the Boston Post, who was in Israel when she declared herself a nation, and through the early days of her War for Independence. The Kennedy brothers also went to Israel in 1951 on a seven-week congressional tour of the Middle East. They left with a further respect for the young country's willingness to "bear any burden" in pursuit of their dreams. It seems likely that President Kennedy saw in the young country the friend in the Middle East he had really been looking for-a friend worthy of the dreams of Camelot.

When Robert first met with Shimon Peres during the negotiations over the Hawk Missile purchase, the memory of Robert's 1948 visit was the first thing they talked about. The second was Israel's desire to break America's "elegant arms embargo." It seems unlikely that Robert didn't exert at least some influence on Peres' behalf to allow Israel to acquire the Hawk. Others saw Robert's influence in this decision as something that Arabs of the world could do without-especially after the U.S. arms purchased by Israel helped it win the Six-Day War of 1967.

If the young Kennedy was to be despised for helping to end the arms embargo as the Attorney General, how much more would he be a problem as the President?

When Yasser Arafat's Black September terrorist stormed the Saudi Embassy in
Khartoum in March of 1973 and took US Ambassador Cleo Noel, Charge
d'Affaires George Curtis Moore, and others hostage, Sirhan's release was one
of their main demands. On March 2, 1973, after Nixon rejected that demand,
Arafat was overheard and recorded by Israeli intelligence and the U.S. National Security Agency giving the code words for the execution of Noel, Moore, and Belgian diplomat Guy Eid, who were shot to death. James Welsh, a
Palestinian analyst for the N.S.A., went public with charges of a cover-up of
Arafat's key role in the planning and execution of these kidnappings and
murders. (There is no statute of limitations on murder.) If Sirhan had acted
independently of the P.L.O., why were they willing to kill Americans to try to gain his freedom?
author: Michael D. Evans
http://www.therefinersfire.org/sirhan_killed_kennedy.htm

note: regarding Kennedy's killer, Sirhan Sirhan, apparently he's still in a California prison according to wikipedia -
The head prosecutor in the case was Lynn "Buck" Compton of Band of Brothers fame. Sirhan was convicted and sentenced to death, but the sentence was commuted to life in prison in 1972 after the California Supreme Court declared the death penalty unconstitutional. He was eligible for parole, but as of March 2003 he had parole denied twelve consecutive times. He is not expected to ever be paroled. Currently he is confined at the California State Prison in Corcoran.
(excerpt from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirhan_Sirhan
 
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rosenherman

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indeep said:
Terrorists killed ~4000 people on 9/11... ~400 people in Bali... ~50 in London... how many innocent people has George Bush killed in his wars?

The President saved many thousands more innocents than have been killed in our war against terrorism.


charmtrap said:
Not as long as people who value free speech stand up for it. There are many many people, some of them in positions of power, some of them even on this very message board, who would happily limit free speech. They need reminding. Yes, every time... Sorry if it disturbs you.



This is a ridiculous scenario you've dreamed up. I don't have to agree with her to think that her opinion has value. And I don't agree with her much, but I think she has some points. She should tone down the rhetoric some, but I think pretty much everyone on all sides should tone down the rhetoric.

I know, dream on...
Her opinion has no value. It's poorly considered and massively incorrect.
In fact, no person's opinion has any value. It is just an opinion.

Sinai said:
It's not. Both sides have the freedom of speech--but conservatives tend to have greater access to talk radio programs, while liberals tend to have greater access to the rest of the media.

...

Conservatives have greater access to talk radio programs because conservatives have an audience. Liberals have greater access to the rest of the media because they are the rest of the media.
 
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indeep said:
Terrorists killed ~4000 people on 9/11... ~400 people in Bali... ~50 in London... how many innocent people has George Bush killed in his wars?

I for one think she has a valid point, although perhaps it is expressed poorly.

Oh, yes, the good ol' US goes around seeking whom she may devour: innocent women and children of all religions and creeds --purposefully targeting civilians in murderous rage, not giving a single thought to limiting damages.

Yup, that describes the U.S.!

Your lines fall on deaf ears.
 
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Voegelin

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Defiant said:
The only person quilty of being "arrogant" and "out of control" is this Julianne Malveaux.

And she isn't alone. Consider the charges and rhetoric we've heard in the last seven months:

The 2004 election was rigged (black box voting)

Alberto Gonzalez supports torture (claim by Senators)

Condi Rice is a liar (claim by Senators)

Tom Delay should go back to Texas and serve his jail time (Howard Dean)

Bush should be impeached (John Conyers D-MI and others).

Karl Rove should be charged with Treason.

Homeland Security cheif Michael Chertoff should resign (Senator Schumer yesterday)

Justice Janice Brown and 9 other judges are "extremists" and should not be confirmed to the Federal bench (Democratic Senators).

John Bolton is unfit to represent the USA in the UN (most all liberals).

American military personal are engaged in conduct similiar to that of those under Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler (Senator Dick Durban).

"Here comes the voice of reason" (Sen. Robert Byrd referring to himself yesterday on C-Span)

Only way Republicans can fill a room with African Americans is to get the Hotel staff there (Howard Dean)

Conservatives should not be upset by any of this. The goal should be to provoke more of it. Let liberals marginalize themselves right out of American politics. There is precedent. Some conservatives did it in the 1950s when started in on floride being a communist plot.
 
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Defiant

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mhatten said:
It's still free regardless.

The beauty is we are free to refute these ridiculous charges. Indeed, we are free to call them "ridiculous charges". We should not say she should not say these things. We ought to use our (those who do not agree) free speech to shout her down and show everyone why her claims are ridiculous.
 
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Billy Batson

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ProAmerican said:
How does two wrongs make it right?

you're attacking her opinion about our nation's propensity toward violence and then you ask this question? are you for real? america never asks this question. look at our military industrial complex and the hawks on capital hill.
 
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Defiant said:
The beauty is we are free to refute these ridiculous charges. Indeed, we are free to call them "ridiculous charges". We should not say she should not say these things. We ought to use our (those who do not agree) free speech to shout her down and show everyone why her claims are ridiculous.

I agree. It's a two way street no argument here.
 
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charmtrap

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Defiant said:
The beauty is we are free to refute these ridiculous charges. Indeed, we are free to call them "ridiculous charges". We should not say she should not say these things. We ought to use our (those who do not agree) free speech to shout her down and show everyone why her claims are ridiculous.

Of course you're free to refute her. That is, as they say, the beauty part.

Though, shouting someone down is usually considered sort of rude. Reasoned discourse is better. If you have to resort to shouting, you've already lost the debate.
 
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indeep said:
Terrorists killed ~4000 people on 9/11... ~400 people in Bali... ~50 in London... how many innocent people has George Bush killed in his wars?

I for one think she has a valid point, although perhaps it is expressed poorly.

So they bomb a bus and we drop a 5000 pound bomb on a village, they shoot a government official and we open fire on a crowd of protestors. I'm not certain who is more terrorised, although I suspect it's not us.

Terror is a tool, we call it shock and awe while they call it Jihad.
 
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sidiousmax225

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Voegelin said:
When Ward Churchill called those killed in the World Trade Center "little Eichmann's" liberals immediately changed the issue to free speech. When Howard Dean said he hates Republicans, Republicans are white Christians and Republicans haven't worked a day in their lives, liberals again brough up free speech.

When Senator Dick Durbin compared American troops to Pol Pot, Stalin's gulag guards and Nazi concentration camp guards, liberals brought up his right of free speech.

We see the same reaction to Julianne Malveaux's comment. In fact, whenever liberals trash the USA and Americans they always create a straw man, beside the point, argument.

Yeah...we have freedom of speech. Everyone knows that. It ain't going nowhere. Nobody is going to take away Ward Churchill's freedom of speech. Or Dean's. Or Durban's. Julianne Malveaux's.


A clever tactic however, liberals believe, to mention free speech when you want to draw attention away from the content of a person's speech.

Except for this: the ploy is so transparent it is laughable. And it makes it obvious those who use it agree with the offesive speech. So why not just be stand up about it? Just say..."Yeah...I agree with her and you know what? She didn't go far enough"

That, at least, could be respected. Nobody respects mealy mouthed dodges.

I'm going to make a drinking game based on you. Take a drink everytime Voegelin says "democrat". Take 2 drinks everytime Voegelin says "Liberal". Drink the whole glass when he refers to either as being anti-american.
 
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