“Most wars are started by Democrats.” Huh?

[Dale]

The other day, someone told me, “Most wars are started by Democrats.”
I asked him if he remembered the first George Bush’s invasion of Panama.
He didn’t.
I asked him if he remembered Ronald Reagan sending troops to the island of Grenada to take out the Marxist regime there.
He didn’t.

There are plenty of occasions in the post-WW II era that Republican Presidents have either started a war or sent American troops into harms way.

President Eisenhower sent 14,000 troops into Lebanon in 1958. Both Marines and Army troops went in on July 15, 1958 and stayed until October 25, 1958. These were backed by seventy Navy ships nearby in the Mediterranean.

Ronald Reagan also sent troops into Lebanon. They were first sent in during August 1982 and left on September 10, 1982. After a massacre of Palestinian refugees, US troops were sent back in on September 29. A car bomb exploded at the US Embassy in Beirut, killing 63 people, including 17 Americans. On October 23, a truck bomb attack on a Marine barracks killed 241, perhaps the largest loss of life on one day for the US since the end of WWII. On the same day, terrorists killed 58 French troops in a separate attack.
On February 27, 1984, President Reagan ordered all US troops out of Lebanon.

Ronald Reagan sent US troops in to take the Caribbean island of Grenada on October 23, 1983. Two thousand troops were sent in at first, and another four thousand came later. Although this was a small operation, by American standards, there has been intense criticism. The invasion took place with little preparation. The invading troops did not have proper military maps of the island, for instance.

President Reagan ordered the bombing of Libya on April 14, 1986 in response to a series of terrorist attacks. It is possible that the attack was intended to kill Libyan Dictator Moamar Khadafi. In any case, he survived.

President Reagan authorized the reflagging of Kuwaiti tankers with American flags and sent US naval forces to the Persian Gulf to protect them from harassment from Iran. This operation took place from July 24, 1987 to September 26, 1988. In retrospect, it looks like a rehearsal for the Persian Gulf War.

President George Bush sent 21,000 troops to invade Panama on December 20, 1989. Although the fighting only took three days and the deaths of 23 US soldiers is considered a small number, it is not without controversy. About 500 Panamanian civilians were killed, in addition to 150 members of the armed forces loyal to Dictator Manuel Noriega. The invasion did put an elected Panamanian President back in power. Nevertheless, there was international criticism. The Organization of American States and the European Parliament condemned the invasion.

The Persian Gulf War started when Saddam Hussein’s Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990. President Bush assembled an international coalition to assist US troops in invading Iraq. The war officially ended on February 28, 1991 after a successful invasion, although Bush decided not to take Baghdad.

On December 4, 1992, President Bush ordered troops into Somalia. President Clinton inherited the Somalia mission when he took office in 1993. The last American troops were ordered out by President Clinton on March 1995.

The War in Afghanistan was going on before the US got involved. Congress passed a Joint Resolution authorizing force against those responsible for the 9-11 attacks. George W. Bush signed it on September 18, 2001, which led to US involvement. US air strikes began on October 7, 2001 and the first ground troops arrived in November and December. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said that “major combat” was over on May 1, 2003. The US continued to have almost 40,000 troops there for years afterward.

The Iraq War: Most Americans saw the Iraq War as a result of the 9-11 attacks. Most histories find no basis for this notion. The Administration of George W. Bush claimed that Iraq under Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which were never found. Based largely on that claim or popular belief in it, Congress passed the Iraq Resolution in October 2002. The Iraq War officially continued from March 20, 2003 to December 18, 2011. Despite the supposed end of the war, the Obama Administration sent troops back into Iraq in 2014.

I have left Vietnam out of this assessment since the origins of full-scale American involvement in that war are blurred over several presidencies.

The Korean War happened during the Truman Administration, and Harry Truman was a Democrat. Congress approved military action in Korea in August of 1950, so Truman did not proceed without Congressional approval. Truman did confine the war to the Korean Peninsula, refusing to get into a broader war with China.

There is no simple measure of whether a President acted wisely in military matters. It is clear that a number of military actions ordered by Republican Presidents have been conveniently forgotten by partisans.

 

[Albion]

The other day, someone told me, “Most wars are started by Democrats.”.

There is a big gray area in that claim, but it probably is basically true.

President Trump has been unique among recent presidents for NOT getting us into new wars. However, most of the really important and costly (in both lives and money) wars we've gotten into were under Democratic presidents--World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, for example.

 

[Archivist]

Of course America’s bloodiest war was the Civil War which began under President Lincoln. The Spanish-American War began under a Republican. It was Eisenhower, a Republican, who started sending American advisors to Vietnam, and the first US deaths there occurred when he was still president.

 

[The Barbarian]

Of course America’s bloodiest war was the Civil War which began under President Lincoln. The Spanish-American War began under a Republican. It was Eisenhower, a Republican, who started sending American advisors to Vietnam, and the first US deaths there occurred when he was still president.

Yes, Eisenhower began the Vietnam War, or at least our participation in it. Wars are usually caused by external events, with the president somewhat reluctant to declare war. The Spanish-American War was really initiated by a newspaper publisher, against McKinley's wishes, and WWI was begun due to unrestricted submarine attacks on civilian ships.

 

[Archivist]

Yes, Eisenhower began the Vietnam War, or at least our participation in it. Wars are usually caused by external events, with the president somewhat reluctant to declare war. The Spanish-American War was really initiated by a newspaper publisher, against McKinley's wishes, and WWI was begun due to unrestricted submarine attacks on civilian ships.

And the explosion that destroyed USS Maine was probably due to a fire in a coal bunker, not a Spanish mine. Hearst and Pulitzer wanted a war so they could sell newspapers.

 

[Albion]

Yes, Eisenhower began the Vietnam War, or at least our participation in it. Wars are usually caused by external events, with the president somewhat reluctant to declare war. The Spanish-American War was really initiated by a newspaper publisher, against McKinley's wishes, and WWI was begun due to unrestricted submarine attacks on civilian ships.

Well, you got a little bit of that right. There was not a Democrat as President when the Spanish American War was fought.

Eisenhower did not take us to war in Vietnam. Those who want to cast the blame on him have tried to say he provoked Ho by supporting (with treaties, etc.) the people Ho wanted to defeat, but Ike did not go to war in Vietnam. That role belongs to either JFK or LBJ, depending on how one looks at the facts.

WW1, WW2, and Korea were wars that our Presidents took us into. In the two World Wars, Democratic Presidents were elected in the belief that these men would do the opposite.

 

[Dale]

There is a big gray area in that claim, but it probably is basically true.

President Trump has been unique among recent presidents for NOT getting us into new wars. However, most of the really important and costly (in both lives and money) wars we've gotten into were under Democratic presidents--World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, for example.

You reached that conclusion by only looking at the wars you want to look at.

 

[Dale]

There is a big gray area in that claim, but it probably is basically true.

President Trump has been unique among recent presidents for NOT getting us into new wars. However, most of the really important and costly (in both lives and money) wars we've gotten into were under Democratic presidents--World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, for example.

You may have forgotten that Donald Trump ordered the assassination of Iranian Major General Qasem Soleimani near the Baghdad airport in a drone strike. Ten people were killed. Besides Soleimani, five Iranians and four Iraqis were killed. Soleimani was on his way to meet with the Prime Minister of Iraq when he was killed.

I’m not defending Soleimani. By all accounts, he was the force behind terrorist acts in several countries. Some experts believe that Soleimani was the second most powerful person in Iran. His power was second only to the Supreme Leader. His assassination could easily have led to all out war with Iran.

If Donald Trump didn’t get us into a new war in the Middle East, it may be pure luck.

 

[Redwingfan9]

The other day, someone told me, “Most wars are started by Democrats.”
I asked him if he remembered the first George Bush’s invasion of Panama.
He didn’t.
I asked him if he remembered Ronald Reagan sending troops to the island of Grenada to take out the Marxist regime there.
He didn’t.

There are plenty of occasions in the post-WW II era that Republican Presidents have either started a war or sent American troops into harms way.

President Eisenhower sent 14,000 troops into Lebanon in 1958. Both Marines and Army troops went in on July 15, 1958 and stayed until October 25, 1958. These were backed by seventy Navy ships nearby in the Mediterranean.

Ronald Reagan also sent troops into Lebanon. They were first sent in during August 1982 and left on September 10, 1982. After a massacre of Palestinian refugees, US troops were sent back in on September 29. A car bomb exploded at the US Embassy in Beirut, killing 63 people, including 17 Americans. On October 23, a truck bomb attack on a Marine barracks killed 241, perhaps the largest loss of life on one day for the US since the end of WWII. On the same day, terrorists killed 58 French troops in a separate attack.
On February 27, 1984, President Reagan ordered all US troops out of Lebanon.

Ronald Reagan sent US troops in to take the Caribbean island of Grenada on October 23, 1983. Two thousand troops were sent in at first, and another four thousand came later. Although this was a small operation, by American standards, there has been intense criticism. The invasion took place with little preparation. The invading troops did not have proper military maps of the island, for instance.

President Reagan ordered the bombing of Libya on April 14, 1986 in response to a series of terrorist attacks. It is possible that the attack was intended to kill Libyan Dictator Moamar Khadafi. In any case, he survived.

President Reagan authorized the reflagging of Kuwaiti tankers with American flags and sent US naval forces to the Persian Gulf to protect them from harassment from Iran. This operation took place from July 24, 1987 to September 26, 1988. In retrospect, it looks like a rehearsal for the Persian Gulf War.

President George Bush sent 21,000 troops to invade Panama on December 20, 1989. Although the fighting only took three days and the deaths of 23 US soldiers is considered a small number, it is not without controversy. About 500 Panamanian civilians were killed, in addition to 150 members of the armed forces loyal to Dictator Manuel Noriega. The invasion did put an elected Panamanian President back in power. Nevertheless, there was international criticism. The Organization of American States and the European Parliament condemned the invasion.

The Persian Gulf War started when Saddam Hussein’s Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990. President Bush assembled an international coalition to assist US troops in invading Iraq. The war officially ended on February 28, 1991 after a successful invasion, although Bush decided not to take Baghdad.

On December 4, 1992, President Bush ordered troops into Somalia. President Clinton inherited the Somalia mission when he took office in 1993. The last American troops were ordered out by President Clinton on March 1995.

The War in Afghanistan was going on before the US got involved. Congress passed a Joint Resolution authorizing force against those responsible for the 9-11 attacks. George W. Bush signed it on September 18, 2001, which led to US involvement. US air strikes began on October 7, 2001 and the first ground troops arrived in November and December. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said that “major combat” was over on May 1, 2003. The US continued to have almost 40,000 troops there for years afterward.

The Iraq War: Most Americans saw the Iraq War as a result of the 9-11 attacks. Most histories find no basis for this notion. The Administration of George W. Bush claimed that Iraq under Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which were never found. Based largely on that claim or popular belief in it, Congress passed the Iraq Resolution in October 2002. The Iraq War officially continued from March 20, 2003 to December 18, 2011. Despite the supposed end of the war, the Obama Administration sent troops back into Iraq in 2014.

I have left Vietnam out of this assessment since the origins of full-scale American involvement in that war are blurred over several presidencies.

The Korean War happened during the Truman Administration, and Harry Truman was a Democrat. Congress approved military action in Korea in August of 1950, so Truman did not proceed without Congressional approval. Truman did confine the war to the Korean Peninsula, refusing to get into a broader war with China.

There is no simple measure of whether a President acted wisely in military matters. It is clear that a number of military actions ordered by Republican Presidents have been conveniently forgotten by partisans.

All four major wars of the 20th century were started by Democrats, all of them unnecessary. All of the Republican actions were small potatoes in comparison.

 

[Hazelelponi]

You reached that conclusion by only looking at the wars you want to look at.

Have you looked at Clinton?

America’s Benevolent Bombing of Serbia – The Future of Freedom Foundation


"The Kosovo Liberation Army’s savage nature was well known before the Clinton administration formally christened them “freedom fighters” in 1999. The previous year, the State Department condemned “terrorist action by the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army.” The KLA was heavily involved in drug trafficking and had close to ties to Osama bin Laden. Arming the KLA helped Clinton portray himself as a crusader against injustice and shift public attention after his impeachment trial.

In early June 1999, the Washington Post reported that “some presidential aides and friends are describing [bombing] Kosovo in Churchillian tones, as Clinton’s ‘finest hour.’” Clinton administration officials justified killing civilians because, it alleged the Serbs were committing genocide in Kosovo. After the bombing ended, no evidence of genocide was found, but Clinton and Britain’s Tony Blair continued boasting as if their war had stopped a new Hitler in his tracks.

In a speech to American troops in a Thanksgiving 1999 visit, Clinton declared that the Kosovar children “love the United States … because we gave them their freedom back.” Perhaps Clinton saw freedom as nothing more than being tyrannized by people of the same ethnicity. As the Serbs were driven out of Kosovo, Kosovar Albanians became increasingly oppressed by the KLA, which ignored its commitment to disarm. The Los Angeles Times reported on November 20, 1999,

As a postwar power struggle heats up in Kosovo Albanian politics, extremists are trying to silence moderate leaders with a terror campaign of kidnappings, beatings, bombings, and at least one killing. The intensified attacks against members of the moderate Democratic League of Kosovo, or LDK, have raised concerns that radical ethnic Albanians are turning against their own out of fear of losing power in a democratic Kosovo.

American and NATO forces stood by as the KLA resumed its ethnic cleansing, slaughtering Serbian civilians, bombing Serbian churches, and oppressing non-Muslims. Almost a quarter million Serbs, Gypsies, Jews, and other minorities fled Kosovo after Clinton promised to protect them. In March 2000 renewed fighting broke out when the KLA launched attacks into Serbia, trying to seize territory that it claimed historically belonged to ethnic Albanians. UN Human Rights Envoy Jiri Dienstbier reported that “the [NATO] bombing hasn’t solved any problems. It only multiplied the existing problems and created new ones. The Yugoslav economy was destroyed. Kosovo is destroyed. There are hundreds of thousands of people unemployed now.”

For a full view of Clinton's wars:

Presidential War Powers and Bill Clinton's Battles | History News Network

I can also include Obama if you like....

Trump is actually the one president we've had, democrat or republican, who isn't a war monger. Anything he's been involved in demonstrates American strength and resolve and walks away, instead of some kind of a bombs for votes campaign the rest enjoy so much.

 

[The Barbarian]

Eisenhower did not take us to war in Vietnam.

Yep. it was Eisenhower.

After the French defeat, Eisenhower’s administration refused to sign the Geneva Accords or abide by their resolutions. Eisenhower also backed the formation of South Vietnam as a separate state and the instalment of Ngo Dinh Diem as its pro-Western leader. Eisenhower supported Diem through the 1950s, despite strong misgivings about Diem’s anti-democratic and often brutal methods.


Eisenhower retired in January 1961, handing the presidency to John F. Kennedy. During Eisenhower’s two terms the US had been drawn into Vietnam, first as a benefactor to the French, then as a supporter of the Diem regime in Saigon. Eisenhower’s defiance of the Geneva Accords and his involvement in Vietnam left a difficult legacy for the three presidents who followed him.


Eisenhower lived out his remaining years in Pennsylvania, sometimes speaking publicly in support of US military involvement in Vietnam. He died in March 1969.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[The Barbarian]

Well, let's take a look...

A series of war crimes were committed during the Kosovo War (early 1998 – 11 June 1999). The forces of the Slobodan Milošević regime committed rape, killed many Albanian civilians and expelled them during the war, alongside the widespread destruction of civilian, cultural and religious property. According to the Human Rights Watch, the vast majority of the violations from January 1998 to April 1999 were attributable to Serbian police or the Yugoslav army. Violations also included abuses committed by the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA or UÇK), such as kidnappings, organ theft and summary executions of members of Serbian community, members of other minorities and Albanians who were considered traitors.[1]
War crimes in the Kosovo War - Wikipedia

Similar issues happened in the Bosnian area, although the Bosnians were much less inclined to commit atrocities themselves.

Bottom line, the killings stopped when the war stopped. Largely Clinton's doing.

The Bosnian War (1992–1995) was one of the most brutal conflicts in Europe since the end of World War II. Thirty‐four cease‐fires failed to produce peace in Bosnia and Herzegovina until the late American diplomat, Richard Holbrooke, brokered one that set the stage for a series of negotiations—starting in the Balkans and ending in Dayton, Ohio. The Dayton peace process finally terminated the Bosnian War. The interplay of military intervention by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and diplomacy by the United States was remarkable. This article highlights thirteen conflict resolution lessons or “Holbrookeisms” that can be learned from the Dayton peace process. Some aspects of Holbrooke's approach toward the peace process helped him to successfully mediate an end to the Bosnian War, while others contributed toward some of the existing cleavages in today's Bosnian society.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/nejo.12300

 

[The Barbarian]

Well, let's take a look...

A series of war crimes were committed during the Kosovo War (early 1998 – 11 June 1999). The forces of the Slobodan Milošević regime committed rape, killed many Albanian civilians and expelled them during the war, alongside the widespread destruction of civilian, cultural and religious property. According to the Human Rights Watch, the vast majority of the violations from January 1998 to April 1999 were attributable to Serbian police or the Yugoslav army. Violations also included abuses committed by the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA or UÇK), such as kidnappings, organ theft and summary executions of members of Serbian community, members of other minorities and Albanians who were considered traitors.[1]
War crimes in the Kosovo War - Wikipedia

Similar issues happened in the Bosnian area, although the Bosnians were much less inclined to commit atrocities themselves.

Bottom line, the killings stopped when the war stopped. Largely Clinton's doing.

The Bosnian War (1992–1995) was one of the most brutal conflicts in Europe since the end of World War II. Thirty‐four cease‐fires failed to produce peace in Bosnia and Herzegovina until the late American diplomat, Richard Holbrooke, brokered one that set the stage for a series of negotiations—starting in the Balkans and ending in Dayton, Ohio. The Dayton peace process finally terminated the Bosnian War. The interplay of military intervention by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and diplomacy by the United States was remarkable. This article highlights thirteen conflict resolution lessons or “Holbrookeisms” that can be learned from the Dayton peace process. Some aspects of Holbrooke's approach toward the peace process helped him to successfully mediate an end to the Bosnian War, while others contributed toward some of the existing cleavages in today's Bosnian society.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/nejo.12300

The tribunal convicted Serbs, Croats, and Bosniaks of war crimes. Nine Kosovian rebel leaders, including Kosovo's president, have been indicted by the tribunal. There were brutalities on all sides, and Clinton's involvement put an end to it.

 

[Albion]

You reached that conclusion by only looking at the wars you want to look at.

LOL. I don't agree with a claim that says EVERY war was started by a Democratic President; but we were taken into most of the really significant and fairly recent ones in our history (such as WW1, WW2, Korea, and Vietnam) by Presidents who were Democrats.

 

[Albion]

Yep. it was Eisenhower.

After the French defeat, Eisenhower’s administration refused to sign the Geneva Accords or abide by their resolutions. Eisenhower also backed the formation of South Vietnam as a separate state and the instalment of Ngo Dinh Diem as its pro-Western leader. Eisenhower supported Diem through the 1950s, despite strong misgivings about Diem’s anti-democratic and often brutal methods.

Eisenhower retired in January 1961, handing the presidency to John F. Kennedy. During Eisenhower’s two terms the US had been drawn into Vietnam, first as a benefactor to the French, then as a supporter of the Diem regime in Saigon. Eisenhower’s defiance of the Geneva Accords and his involvement in Vietnam left a difficult legacy for the three presidents who followed him.

Eisenhower lived out his remaining years in Pennsylvania, sometimes speaking publicly in support of US military involvement in Vietnam. He died in March 1969.

All you've done here is elaborate on the point I made that Eisenhower did NOT take the USA into war in Vietnam.

 

[The Barbarian]

All you've done here is elaborate on the point I made that Eisenhower did NOT take the USA into war in Vietnam.

As you see, it says Eisenhower was the president who began U.S. military action in the Vietnam war.

Eisenhower retired in January 1961, handing the presidency to John F. Kennedy. During Eisenhower’s two terms the US had been drawn into Vietnam, first as a benefactor to the French, then as a supporter of the Diem regime in Saigon.

The first U.S. Vietnam war casualties occurred during Eisenhower's term.

• 1957 October 22

American forces suffer first casualties in Vietnam
American forces suffer first casualties in Vietnam

There's really no point in denying it.

 

[Albion]

There's really no point in denying it.

There's also no point it trying to make "it" into something other than what the discussion was about.

 

[Albion]

You may have forgotten that Donald Trump ordered the assassination of Iranian Major General Qasem Soleimani near the Baghdad airport in a drone strike.

No. But it wasn't what we were talking about.

 

[Archivist]

All four major wars of the 20th century were started by Democrats, all of them unnecessary. All of the Republican actions were small potatoes in comparison.

No, Vietnam started under a Republican president (post 3).

World War I and World War II were unnecessary? I guess it was alright for the German submarines to sink our merchant ships in 1917. Perhaps we just should have thanked the Japanese for sinking our ships at Pearl Harbor.

 

[Redwingfan9]

No, Vietnam started under a Republican president (post 3).

World War I and World War II were unnecessary? I guess it was alright for the German submarines to sink our merchant ships in 1917. Perhaps we just should have thanked the Japanese for sinking our ships at Pearl Harbor.

We didn't get involved in WW1 because of merchant ships being sunk, we got involved because of a fake telegram to Mexico from Germany in which the latter urged the Mexicans to declare war on the US.

As for WWII, Pearl Harbor wouldn't have happened but for FDR's oil embargo. Trade wars beget real wars.

You can pretend like Vietnam was started by Eisenhower all you want. It was Kennedy and Johnson who sent tens and then hundreds of thousands of troops in, not Ike.