Pacifism

pete5 said:

Sorry to be a kill joy, but if you are able to access the internet you cannot be anything but a deluded pacifist.

Reason: The very act of earning or spending money, of even being born in a situation where you are rich enough (by whole world standards) to acess the net makes you an active participant in slavery, murder etc etc.

If you examine the world economy, you will see that the only reason that you can afford to use a computer, eat enough food, wear nice clothes, be part of a democracy and use any form of modern motorised transport is because someone somewhere is being exploited.


ps. If anyone knows a way of living in the first world without causing all this, please post it so we can all stop the cycle, but sad fact of the day is that the first world needs the third world to sustain.

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I don't have a "way," I think practice of poverty is a good place to start, for another similar discussion, please view this thread:
http://www.christianforums.com/t76673

As you said, our late capitalism is built on the foundation of compulsive mass consumption and competitive exploitations. It's like an addiction, no one in it is winning.

I think awareness is crucial, many people still think that people are starving in Africa because somehow they aren't smart or they don't work hard enough. Some would even believe girls in Thailand are amoral because they don't feel guilty about prostituting themselves to provide for their family. It's not true, we work them to death for 9 cent an hour and force them to starve their own children to provide surplus for us. Unfortunately, the majority of the public is practicing apathy toward global problems right now.

I don't know if capitalism itself is "evil", but I do think it is going in the wrong direction, and as it is, it's completely built on the foundations of human weaknesses (greed, compulsion). Anyway, I am also contemplating aggressive attack on capitalism itself. A lot of products are made to break down in neck-breaking speed, so that customers will continue to buy more. IMHO this is unethical and destructive to environment and a pathetic way to waste resources, WHEN majority of the global populations don't even have their basic needs met. That's something I have been fantasizing a lot recently. I will make lightbulb and socks that would last a lifetime (it's not that we don't have the technology to do it, lightbulb nowadays are carefully engineered so that they burn out at a certain "age" and force customer to keep buying). I will run out of business soon, but my customers will thank me, and the capitalists will probably want to assassinate me

ANy other thoughts?

-Cordelia

I just wanted to add, there are other more subtle changes in lifestyle that you can practice. Supporting FAIRtrade (instead of free trade) products are good place to start.

Also, avoid brands or industries that are known to shamelessly exploit transnationally. I don't want to give specific corporation name on forum, but if you are interested, either do a search online or pm me.

-Cordelia

There will never be true peace and security as long as humans rule themselves.

However, we can confidently look forward to the time when God's kingdom government rules. (Isn't that what we all pray for?) Then, and only then, will there be true peace and security earthwide.

In the meantime, since true Christians are to be no part of this world, they do not get caught up in political and commercial squabbles which often time leads to death and destruction.

And they certainly would not engage themselves in military activities that would harm their fellow believers that happen to live in other nations, let alone other humans.

lared said:

true Christians are to be no part of this world, they do not get caught up in political and commercial squabbles which often time leads to death and destruction.

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Myah said:

It's an interesting viewpoint, but in MHO a bit rabid. You make several good points, but is this all your opinion, or do you have any statistics and/or articles by economists?
I'm grateful I live in a 1st world country, true. But there is rampant poverty in the US too. It isn't possible, in my opinion to totally rid the world of poverty. I'm not saying that we shouldn't help those less fortunate than ourselves but I don't see how pacifism relates to this. Pacifism is non-violence, it doesn't have much to do with economic policies as far as I know.

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I do not have any hard statistical proof, but I have been looking into the world economy as best as I can (without being a profesional.)


But the main point I was trying to bring out, is:

What is the point of being a "pacifist" if all that really means is that you don't see the immediate effects of the damage you do to the world? It's like saying "I don't want feel bad for hurting someone, so I try not to hurt anyone in such a way that I see the damage and feel bad" and then remaining happily ignorant of much of the conflict you are indirectly involved in.

Almost every person who claims to be a pacifist will say that they engage in conflict if they have the right motivation (protecting family etc) and yet even the terrorists that flew the 747's into the trade towers can claim that same "pacifism."


The Pacifism which gets promoted in the western world seems to often be just a nice route to feeling good about the impact of your life, where your effort to not shout at an annoying driver on the road means that you can consider yourself to be a contribution to world peace.

I am not trying to put anyone down or give anyone guilt, but I am also keen to challenge thinking which promotes ignorance and a false sense of security.

Myah said:

To quote the movie "Death to Smoochy"
-- You can't change the world but you can make a dent.

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To quote me after seeing "Death to Smoochy"

--You can change the world if you have a big enough hammer to make the dent.

It shown that allowing oneself to and/or forcing others to give up one's instruments of violence can make one more of a target for violence.

In other words, if you don't have the means to defend yourself you simply make yourself more of a target for those that would attack you. The whole idea of pacifism of ludicrous. As long as evil men exist we must have the means to defend ourselves against it.