State leaders speak out about plans to expand the Islamic Academy of Alabama

[BPPLEE]

Oof. Pointing out the one has black friends only ever happens in a very particular kind of conversation.

Yes, truthful conversations

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

If we want to discuss propensity for consolidating religious and government power...

34 of the 53 Muslim majority countries have codified state religions. Do you think that same ratio exists among Christian-majority countries?

Nearly all of them. It may be beneficial to review European history before asking this type of question.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Unfortunately a significant portion of Muslims in the world today express contempt and even hatred for Jews and Christians, and even for fellow Muslims (Shiite vs. Sunni) to the point of violence and the justification of killing. T

Throughout history, true Christianity has often faced hostility. Jesus himself was crucified, and he told his disciples that following him would bring persecution and rejection. The belief that Christians will not face animosity is not supported by biblical teachings; Jesus made it clear: "If you follow me, the world will hate you."

A genuine Christian, one who follows the teachings of the Bible, does not harbor hatred towards those who oppose them. Instead, Christians are taught and instructed by Jesus to pray for those who hate them, to love their enemies, to show compassion, provide care, and, above all, fulfill the greatest commandment—the Great Commission—by sharing the gospel with them.

Regrettably, I have noticed that certain American evangelical communities sometimes display contempt towards groups they view as unfriendly to Christians. This thread alone demonstrates how many self-identified Christians fail to reflect the love Christ commanded.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Nearly all of them. It may be beneficial to review European history before asking this type of question.

I'm not talking about countries that had them before back in the dark ages.

I've already posted the numbers before.

It's not "nearly all of them"

Key facts about government-favored religion around the world

Today, more than 80 countries either have an official religion or favor one or more religious groups over others.

www.pewresearch.org

There are 53 Muslim majority countries on the planet, and roughly 120 Christian majority countries on the planet.

Islam is the official religion in nearly two-thirds of the countries with an official state-endorsed faith.

So despite Muslim Majority nations only making up a quarter of the world's countries, they have 2/3 of countries with state religions, and all of the world's full blown theocracies (with the exception of Vatican City if people want to count that as a real country)


Despite people's best efforts to maintain some sort of neutral "they both have problems" rationale to not step on any toes, numbers don't lie.

If the roles were reversed, and theocratic Catholic regimes were popping up all over Latin America (and executing people for leaving the faith), people would have no problem calling it out.

And the "authoritarian leader" element has less to do with it than people will try to claim.

Much like the Islamic countries in question...

Hugo Chavez (an authoritarian) came to power via a revolution, and governed as such, and despite being a devout Catholic (in a predominately Catholic nation) he did not immediately try to codify a state religion or theocracy... unlike the nations in the middle east after the Islamic revolution.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

How is that different from Christians avoiding vaccines or baking cakes because it goes against their religion?

If you're familiar with my posting history, you'll know that I'm not a fan of the religious exemptions to vaccine requirements.

The baking cakes thing is different. Compelling an individual artist to make something they don't want to make isn't the same dynamic being discussed here.

If you're looking for an equivalent to that story, that'd be like me going to Muslim bakeries and insisting that they make me a cake with a visual depiction of Muhammed on it, and then suing them when they refuse.


We're talking about religious carve-outs to rules that everyone else has to follow.

I noted before, if you're looking for an example of a Christian religious carve-out, a better example would be minimum drinking age laws.

If a restaurant gave a kid a little bit of wine, they'd get cited and lose their liquor license, if the Catholic church does it, they're exempted from those types of penalties because it's part of a religious ceremony.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Rudolph also killed people, the "islamists" didn't in that period.

I'm not surprised that you didn't get my point. These lists are dumb. That was my point. The whole thread is about bigotry.

Lists themselves aren't dumb -- if the right metrics are being measured.


If we were having a "dangers of drug use, and public implications" conversation.

A list that aggregates all "illegal drugs" together and treats every negative outcome the same (regardless of severity), then only does simplistic math would be dumb.

A list that separated each individual drug and and the outcomes (and weighed by outcome severity) could be meaningful.

 

[Hans Blaster]

There are plenty of historical documents you can read, there were, just like today, different ideas and approaches in those times.

I've actually studied the history of immigration (a long time ago). "documents" doesn't even come close to answering my question. It's *you* that claimed other cultures came too fast. What cultures do *you* think came too fast in the 1920s and earlier?

Realistically there are cultures that have extreme bias toward other groups and would be difficult to assimilate into our culture. There is plenty of room for say, those in Gaza, but no country in the world wants to take in a large number of Gazans. I wish it were not so.

You'll never make me assimilate.

 

[Valletta]

It's not about making anyone assimilate, it's about choosing people who want to come here who respect and want to embrace our way of life and add to it rather than destroy it. I don't want people here who will kill their daughters because they don't dress properly in public or because they converse with those of other religions, or who praise the killing of Jews or anyone else. I don't want cartels or gangs or terrorists or thugs. That is, people who have no intent on obeying the laws of our country. So too we do not need people who just want to be on the government dole. As it was a hundred years or so ago how many from each country can be a discussion. It was until the Biden administration unilaterally decided to flood the country. For now we need to remove violent criminals and rescue the lost children. The reality is that many of the children found have been in forced labor or sexual slavery. We cannot allow this to ever happen again, never should votes be put ahead of the welfare of children. Right now our country is not a fit country to welcome more immigrants. As to those who won't assimilate, first the thugs who are here need to be imprisoned or deported, ALL of those who would steal food from the mouths of children or exploit children in any way or use violence.

 

[rjs330]

There was a time not too long ago when Catholicism was the feared religion in the United States and seen as the biggest threat to the American way of life. There were people who believed that Catholics were immigrating to the US, starting Catholic schools, and infiltrating government institutions with the goal of establishing a Catholic theocracy. They thought Catholicism was incompatible with democracy and the US Constitution, and the followers of Catholicism couldn't be loyal to the Catholic Church and still be a loyal American. Anti-Catholic propagandists made claims that Catholics would lie to advance their cause and couldn't assimilate to the American way of life. That they were taking jobs and opportunities from Americans and were unclean, backwards, and ape-like. They promoted horror stories of children being kidnapped and killed at convents, of priests brainwashing parishioners, of nuns forced into sexual slavery with priests, and of Catholics plotting an armed takeover of the United States.

The most effective tactic the anti-Catholic propagandists used back then was having ex-Catholics share their personal experiences. "Escaped" nuns, former priests, and “converted” Catholics used to tour the country giving talks and interviews describing the horrors they witnessed. Many wrote books and had lucrative careers participating in the anti-Catholic circuit. As time went by, it was discovered that many of those ex-Catholics turned out to be frauds or had greatly exaggerated their stories.

What I have described above is no different than what we are seeing today with the religion of Islam and Muslims. Anti-Islam propagandists are saying pretty much the same things about Muslims as the anti-Catholic propagandists did of Catholics. They are using the same playbook by having ex-Muslims appear on right-wing media outlets and podcasts sharing their horror stories and personal experiences with the religion of Islam. And just like the ex-Catholics of the past that participated in the anti-Catholic industry, many of these ex-Muslims have become quite wealthy by joining the anti-Islam industry.

What we are seeing today isn't new; only the bogeyman is different.

Bottom line: just because you see an ex-Muslim on YouTube or a right-wing outlet demonizing Islam, it doesn't mean that their motives are pure.

Except Islam allows lying to infidels in order to do whatever it takes to take over. Yes we need to listen to Muslims who have left to get the stories we wouldn't know otherwise. Just like wr needed to hear the stories of the holocaust survivors, the stories of those from the Soviet gulag, the stories of those who survived the prison camps in Japan during WWII, those that escape from N Korea. Stories we wouldn't know unless told. So give it up.

If you don't want to believe her story, then don't. Turn a blind eye. I don't care anymore. If you choose to believe a lying Islamist culture that subdugates women and seeks to take over places for Allah, then be my guest.

 

[rjs330]

I'm not surprised that you didn't get my point. These lists are dumb. That was my point. The whole thread is about bigotry.

Oh? Who are these supposed bigots and what have they said that is bigoted? I certainly don't see any bigotry on this thread.

 

[rjs330]

Throughout history, true Christianity has often faced hostility. Jesus himself was crucified, and he told his disciples that following him would bring persecution and rejection. The belief that Christians will not face animosity is not supported by biblical teachings; Jesus made it clear: "If you follow me, the world will hate you."

A genuine Christian, one who follows the teachings of the Bible, does not harbor hatred towards those who oppose them. Instead, Christians are taught and instructed by Jesus to pray for those who hate them, to love their enemies, to show compassion, provide care, and, above all, fulfill the greatest commandment—the Great Commission—by sharing the gospel with them.

Regrettably, I have noticed that certain American evangelical communities sometimes display contempt towards groups they view as unfriendly to Christians. This thread alone demonstrates how many self-identified Christians fail to reflect the love Christ commanded.

It is not love to allow people to people to flood your cou try who will take advantage of other, rape, kill, steal, lie and try and take over with false religions that are anti-Christ. That is not love and it is not wisdom. Take a look at what rhe Somalis have done in Minnesota, the dangerous illegal immigrant truck drivers, Muslim refugees raped a teen girl in the UK.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/15yearold-girl-recorded-highly-distressing-video-of-her-own-rape-by-two-afghan-migrants-in-uk-park/news-story/27850c7e1eb3e5b3d1089e4a85be8dc3

There are many stories like these across the nation. We have enough problems with our own citizens and its extremely unwise to allow more people in who are a danger to our own citizens, financially and physically.

Yes we will face animosity for being believers. But Jesus warned us about letting wolves in among the sheep. He warned us and so did Paul about letting in false prophets and teachers in among us. Which is what Islam is.

Christians can love, pray for and care for their enemies will not allowing the enemies into the camp to harm other people.