Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

[Fervent]

These are you words, not Christ's. He wants to give us rest and spend time honoring Him. If that's a yoke to you, that's up to you. Its not what God said His Sabbath was for nor will you find one Scripture that say the Sabbath is a yoke.

They are words drawn from Galatians and Romans. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

We are to die of sin and self, not now we can worship other gods and ignore all the teachings of Jesus and His example to follow or what He asks of those who love Him. John14:15

Perhaps you should read Romans, such as "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God."

Either you are dead to the law, or you are bound by it. The whole thing, not just the parts you pick and choose to follow.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin (breaking God's Laws 1John3:4) that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Your editorial additions show a lack of appreciation for Scripture.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

They are words drawn from Galatians and Romans. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

It could mean anything, adding what's not there is something we are warned about. You never quoted Scripture so without it, its baseless.

However, Galatians for examples does not use Sabbath in the entire book. If the Sabbath goes, so does worshipping only God, and not stealing from our neighbor. We can't separate what God placed together because we are not God, why breaking one we break them all James2:11

Perhaps you should read Romans, such as "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God."

We would need to read all of Romans not isolate one verse out of context, Paul is not teaching we can sin Rom7:7 and not to keep the law that is holy, just and good Rom7:12 in the same chapter. Paul also says what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1Cor7:19 and disobeying the law of God is dishonoring Him Rom2:21-23 and not subjecting ourselves to the law of makes one an enemy of God Rom8:7-8 so obviously some things are out of context

Paul is contrasting the law of God, to the law of sin

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members

The law of sin is the yoke of bondage, keeping the law of God frees us from sin again why its called the law of liberty James2:11-12. If everyone was keeping the Ten Commandments the way Jesus taught Mat5:19-30 there would be no more sin. Just peace and harmony Isa48:13 sadly, not everyone wants to give us their sins through John3:19-21

Either you are dead to the law, or you are bound by it. The whole thing, not just the parts you pick and choose to follow.

Your editorial additions show a lack of appreciation for Scripture.

Well at least I use Scripture and try to make my arguments through the Word of God, all you have used is your own words.

 

[Fervent]

It could mean anything, adding what's not there is something we are warned about. Galatians for examples does not use Sabbath in the entire book.

So what do you suppose the Judaizers were trying to impose on the Gentiles, if not the Jewish law?

You would need to read all of Romans not isolate one verse out of context, Paul is not teaching we can sin Rom7:7 and not to keep the law that is holy, just and good Rom7:12 in the same chapter. Paul also says what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1Cor7:19 and disobeying the law of God is dishonoring Him Rom2:21-23 and not subjecting ourselves to the law of makes one an enemy of God Rom8:7-8 so obviously some things are out of context

i've read it alll, Romans 7 makes quite clear that we have died to the law through Christ. Not just part of it, all of it. 1 Cor. 7:19 is unrelated to Romans, and it'd be wise for you to take your own advice about not relying on soliitary verses out of context.

Well at least I use Scripture instead of my own words trying to make them equal to God's, when our are not.

You twist the Scriptures to suit your ends, rather than understanding them and living according to them. if you can't use your own words to convey Scriptural ideas, you don't understand the Bible well enough. Your methodology of quoting singlets as argumentation is far more trying to make your own ideas equal to God's by usurping His word to promote your own ideas.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So what do you suppose the Judaizers were trying to impose on the Gentiles, if not the Jewish law?

Circumcision if reading in the context Gal2:3 Acts15:1

i've read it alll, Romans 7 makes quite clear that we have died to the law through Christ. Not just part of it, all of it. 1 Cor. 7:19 is unrelated to Romans, and it'd be wise for you to take your own advice about not relying on soliitary verses out of context.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members

Paul is not speaking of one law and never said the law of God is what is holding him in bondage or ended.

You twist the Scriptures to suit your ends, rather than understanding them and living according to them. if you can't use your own words to convey Scriptural ideas, you don't understand the Bible well enough. Your methodology of quoting singlets as argumentation is far more

You, you, you

Yet still no Scripture.

Be well my friend, I wish you well.

 

[Fervent]

Circumcision if reading in the context Gal2:3 Acts15:1

And what did circumcision entail?

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members

Paul is not speaking of one law and never said the law of God is what is holding him in bondage or ended.

You're twisting it by isolating a verse out of context. He's not claiming there are multiple laws, but that the law works to differing effects. Which is why we need to be free of the law, not bound to it. Because the point of the law was never to bring about righteousness, but so that sin would reach its full effect.

You, you, you

Yet still no Scripture.

Be well my friend, I wish you well.

Are we, or are we not discussing Galatians and Romans? But I suppose that's not Scripture in your mind, since I'm not just proof texting to make the Bible say what I want it to say.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And what did circumcision entail?

Why don't you explain it through the Scripture.

You're twisting it by isolating a verse out of context. He's not claiming there are multiple laws,

No twisting, just what it clearly says.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law

but that the law works to differing effects. Which is why we need to be free of the law, not bound to it. Because the point of the law was never to bring about righteousness, but so that sin would reach its full effect.

Are we, or are we not discussing Galatians and Romans? But I suppose that's not Scripture in your mind, since I'm not just proof texting to make the Bible say what I want it to say.

You haven't provided any Scripture any context, just your words. I am going to stick with what God says. Paul never taught against obeying God's commandments. He is a servant of Christ, what we are called to be Isa56:6

 

[Fervent]

Why don't you explain it through the Scripture.

You'd have to understand the context to understand the Scripture, because circumcision is a synechdoche.

You haven't provided any Scripture any context, just your words. I am going to stick with what God said, we are all given free will

I've made clear what I am drawing on, but I draw on whole books in their historical context not isolated proof texts. You aren't sticking with what God said, you're using an abusive method to make the Bible fit your theological bent.

 

[Studyman]

The common verse cited is this one:

14 But how are they to call on one in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in one of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone to proclaim him? 15 And how are they to proclaim him unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” 16 But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.

The point of the theological training schools is to proclaim the Gospel in accordance with the Great Commission.

Well I would ask you then, "Whose Great Commission"? The Pharisees were proclaiming their gospel through their preachers who were "trained" in their theological schools since the wicked Kings of Israel. The RCC embarked on their version of their Great Commission, through men that were trained in their theology. Mormons engage in the exact same practice, to grow their religion. Calvinists do as well. JW's do the very same thing. SDA, the exact same thing. Each religious sect promoted by their theologians who build training facilities to further "THEIR" theology, which differs from the theology being promoted by the school across town. I understand perfectly the Tradition as it is widespread in the world God placed me in. What I was hoping for was the source. "Where it came from".

Paul and the 12 Apostles were picked by the Lord's Christ Himself to further the Gospel as defined in the Holy Scriptures throughout the entire world. Paul didn't "choose" between the different religious schools or theologians of his time. He studied Scriptures, in my understanding. He taught, by the Spirit of the Christ, for me to "Study to show myself approved". Didn't he mean to study the God Inspired Holy Scriptures that he preached to others were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works?

Consider that I have Moses and the Prophets, I have the teaching of the 12 Apostles with instructions to believe them because they were chosen by the Lord's Christ Himself. And most importantly, I have the Sayings of the Christ Himself. And I have all their God Inspired Words that God had written down for me, in my own home, in my own heart. Doesn't Paul teach that this is all I need "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.? Isn't this what God Promised in the Prophesied "NEW Covenant"?

"And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."

What person in North America doesn't have access to the Oracles of God, just as God promised? For me, this is a most amazing miracle and proof of the Trustworthiness and Power of the God of Abraham. I am personally awestruck by the absolute reality of this truth, in my life.

The schools train and send missionaries and pastors to churches, both unique jobs with unique challenges. For example, missionaries to Papa New Guinea have to acquire the ability to make an oral language into a written one, educate the tribal people in literacy, and translate the Bible into it, among other things. Pastors need to be trained in exegesis, Hebrew and Greek, and public speaking, admin, etc. It’s a matter of practicality rather than competition.

I truly appreciate your candor and thoughtful post. I mean no offence to anyone, but would simply hope to share what I see as reality. For the purpose of sharing my understanding.

Consider the "Great Commission" underway even now in New Guinea.

"The Papua New Guinea Union Mission", established in 1972, is the administrative body of the Seventh-day Adventist Church which has oversight of the entities and activities of the Church in Papua New Guinea.

The Catholic missions in New Guinea have a rich history, dating back to the 19th century. The first missionaries were the London Missionary Society in 1871, followed by Marist missionaries in the 1880s. These missions played a significant role in the education and healthcare of the local population.

Brother Kegawale Biyama, a member of the Papua New Guinea Branch Committee, released the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures in the Hiri Motu language. The program was prerecorded at the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Port Moresby and streamed to viewers on November 28, 2020. More than 7,000 people tied in to the program.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Papua New Guinea refers to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and its members in Papua New Guinea (PNG). The first missionaries arrived in 1980. As of December 31, 2024, there were 41,268 members in 96 congregations, making it the largest body of LDS Church members in Melanesia and the fifth largest in Oceania.[4]

The real and tangible occurrence of the Jewish Revival in Papua New Guinea represents a unique opportunity for both the Jewish people and the State of Israel to both clarify and explore its own roots, priorities, history and religious direction. For on this small island just a few miles above northern Australia there are the rumblings of both a Jewish renaissance and a Zionist mission; there are Jews that had lost their Judaism and now desire to return to their Mosaic roots and tribal peoples that claim their Judaism to stem from the Ten Lost Tribes.

The Baháʼí Faith in Papua New Guinea begins after 1916 with a mention by ʻAbdu'l-Bahá, then head of the religion, that Baháʼís should take the religion there.[1] The first Baháʼís move there (what Baháʼís mean by "pioneering",) in Papua New Guinea arrived there in 1954.[2] With local converts the first Baháʼí Local Spiritual Assembly was elected in 1958.[3] The first National Spiritual Assembly was then elected in 1969.

The people of what is today Papua New Guinea and West Papua traded with China and the Malay empire, the latter of which was Muslim, beginning in the 16th century.In 1988, Muslims in Papua New Guinea set up the first Islamic center, with the help of a Malaysia-based Islamic organization and the Saudi Ministry of Islamic affairs. In 1996, three more Islamic centers were established, with the help of the Muslim World League. There are now seven Islamic centers in the nation. The first mosque was built in Port Moresby, with a capacity to hold up to 1,500 worshipers.

You say it's not a competition. And emotionally I can see how adherents to each religious sect would not believe their adopted religious sect is in a competition with others to grow their religion.

But when a man turns away from the religions of his fathers, and follows the instruction s of those we know are chosen by God to teach me the Gospel, it's pretty clear that this world's religions have become a massive competition between themselves to convince the masses to fill the seats of their own respective shrines of worship, and contribute financially to "their" specific religious sect.

While the Church of God as defined in the Holy Scriptures, consisted of only 8 people in Noah's Time. Caleb and Joshua were the only two out of 600,000 men, that believed in God from the heart. The Church of God, or as Jesus put it, "the narrow Path" has never been about numbers of supporters. While the religions of this world must grow and create wealth to build the schools to train others for the purpose of growing and create more wealth for building more schools to train even more and on and on and on.

I cannot find anywhere in the Holy scriptures where God, Jesus or His chosen Apostles promoted such a tradition.

Now I mean to offence toward anyone, and I am not judging anyone. I am posting the realities of the religious system of this world God placed me in. And I cannot find where the Church of God, as defined in the Holy Scriptures, was ever directed to partake of such traditions.

Because in Bible Church land, nobody (really) cares. You’re a Jew and you chose to accept the Gospel because you agree with the Sons of Zadok? That’s better than ending up in Gehenna, props. We don’t care if you leave us to join the SDAs. What bothers us is if one chooses to reject the Gospel, that’s a problem.

I would respectful disagree. It seems to me that the "problem" is that every religious sect promotes a "Different gospel", and each one is convinced theirs is the true one, no different than the Pharisees vs. the Sadducees, in my view. And this because men adopt the religious views of one of this world's theologians over another. You don't believe "Miller" was inspired by God. In other words, if I read your posts right, It is your belief that Miller and White "Transformed themselves into Apostles of Christ", in their attempt to be like Paul and the Apostles. As Paul teaches;

2 Cor. 11: 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found "even as we". 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

So who are the founders, the theologians of this world's religious sects? Augustine, Luther, Russell, Smith, Wesley, Calvin, Miller, White, etc. All of these men have "transformed themselves into apostles of Christ". We have zero evidence to the contrary. But Paul and the 12 Apostles didn't "transform themselves into Apostles of Christ", as it is written, "I chose you, you didn't choose me".

So these things are true. And Jesus Himself SPECIFICALLY warned me to Take Heed I am not deceived by, not by atheists, Islam or even satan worshipers. But by "Many" who call Him Lord, Lord, who Come in His Name teaching that HE, Jesus, is the Prophesied Messiah.

So that is why I question this religious tradition choosing a religious sect of this world, then paying them to teach me about God, when God has already given me His Oracles, and the teachers profitable to teach me "doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

We shouldn't hide from these things, rather, we should shine the LIGHT on them, as it is written, for the purpose of discerning if they are wrought in man, or God. At least in my view.

I would like to continue in another post. I Hope you don't mind.

 

[Studyman]

Hiding the Gospel and Scripture in cloaks of tradition and ritual is what gets us ready to engage in Scripture-slinging spiritual warfare, but other than that we’re pretty chill. Occasionally we might have to disown somebody like John MacArthur who spends time attacking people for no reason and makes egregious theological errors though. Starting fights with other churches makes us look bad.

I agree. The bickering that goes on between one religious sect and another religious sect is popular but unprofitable. Although Paul did take advantage of this popular practice to divert attention away from the false accusation against him of teaching against God's Laws that the mainstream religions of his time engaged in. (Pharisees vs, Sadducees)

So as far as I know, we don’t use our schools to fight with other schools and we certainly are not interested in being like the Pharisees in our teaching styles. Well, except for the Master’s college, but that school is run by John MacArthur’s ego, so let’s just throw them out as irrelevant. I most certainly disown their elitism.

But isn't your emotional response towards this Famous theologian who is followed and believed on by millions of people, only because you chose to adopt a different theology?

Think about that. To judge one man, who transformed himself into an Apostle of Christ, who was trained by this world's religious schools, the Talbot Theological Seminary, earning a Master of Divinity in 1964, as irrelevant, because they paid a different school to train them than one you might approve of. At least this is what I understand of your post.

What is the difference really, between the teaching of MacArthur and Swindoll, who received certification from Dallas Theological Seminary?

Where is there any evidence that these two were chosen by the Lord's Christ to teach me about God?

Isn't the teachers that Jesus and His Father chose, and gave to this world, good enough?

So here we are, back to the very beginning with my question, where did these traditions come from? It's total confusion. From the very beginning men are instructed by God to leave the religion of their fathers and follow Him. Abraham and Paul are perfect examples of this very thing. Zacharias and Simeon and Anna understood this and Yielded themselves, not to the teaching of Gamaliel, but yielded themselves to God in obedience to His Laws. And if you read Luke 1&2, you will see that they knew the Gospel of Christ that the Israelites rejected in the wilderness, and the Pharisees rejected when it was shown to them, and lived by it, long before Jesus was even born.

As a result they lived by Faith, looking for the Salvation that was prophesied to come, in obedience to God as defined by the Holy Scriptures. So when Jesus came, they knew Him. While the great theologians of the world, who had exclusive possession of the same Gospel, didn't know who Jesus was when HE was working miracles right in front of their face. Truly Peter, the rock in which Jesus built His Church, was right when he told us that God gives His Spirit to those who obey Him. And Paul was right, who Jesus also chose, when he said that it doesn't matter if we are a Jew or a Gentile, all that matters is Keeping the commandments of God, as it is also written, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

I truly appreciate the reply, and the thoughtful way you engaged. And I understand I am in the severe minority, believing that if the Holy Scriptures are true, and everyone submitted to them, there would no religious schools, their would be no smorgasbord of religious sects all coming in Christ's Name", but promoting different philosophies. There would be no massive religious businesses all competing against each other for contributing members without which their religion would collapse.

But that isn't the world we live in. And God said HE would leave these things to prove us, whether or not we would walk in His Laws or not.

But someday, this will be the world men live in. And I am waiting for this city, a continuing city wherein dwells righteousness, as it is written;

2 Pet. 3: 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14Wherefore,(Because of this) beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye "may be found of him" in peace, without spot, and blameless.

This is the Prize Paul pressed towards, and one I press towards as well. I truly believe this Prize is not found in this world's religious schools or religious sects, rather, it is found when a person chooses to "present their bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is our reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of our mind, that we may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

But who am I, a nobody.

What I was referring to was the Dallas Theological Seminary, which is very inclusive in their doctrinal statement. I think a Christian of almost any Protestant stripe could attend there unbothered, including the SDAs and Messianics. In fact, I have reason to suspect that some actually have.

But when you build a school, there are those who teach at the school, and of the teachers, there will be researchers and scholars who decide what is to be taught. That’s just how schools work. There are people whose job is to know the worldwide mission field like a 3-D chess game and to train people for new mission opportunities, whether pastor or missionary.

And then, inevitably, these scholars will reach necessary consensus on certain issues, which are then taught to the pastors who teach it to their congregations. That is a way of keeping order and making sure that the pastors and missionaries are following the Scriptures. Most of these consensuses are practical, like refusing same-sex marriages to be conducted on church property or saying we don’t allow abuse as a valid reason for a biblical divorce, etc.

In this case, imagine yourself as a union less factory worker in 1863 when the SDA church was founded up in Michigan. Having a day of rest to the Lord would have been a relief to them from the constant toil and long hours in the workplace. That’s part of why that church has held on against the mainline work ‘em til they die American culture, by venerating the 4th commandment as a pushback. It provides relief. Likewise, the Zadok consensus appeals to the Messianic Jews and their theological needs. It’s a practical consensus for them to keep the Law to honor their heritage and keep the peace with their fellow law keeping Jews. The bottom line is:

18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

We are warned in the Holy scriptures about religions of this world.

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth "of the LORD".

17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one "that walketh after the imagination of his own heart", No evil shall come upon you.

I don't believe to "live peaceably with all men", means to adopt their religious philosophy, or to promote to others that it doesn't matter to God how a man lives. The hardest lesson it seems, would be to know when it is time to move on, instead of always defending oneself or having the last word. It is one of my great struggles, I say to my shame.

Likewise, the mainline consensus is practical for people in occupations that don’t allow them to consistently rest on Saturday, like emergency service workers or postal carriers. You’re not apostate for delivering the mail on Saturday, says that consensus: your Sabbath rest is in Christ. Not only that, but our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, and He is working on Saturday too. No priest was breaking the Sabbath by working in the temple, and the temple was not breaking the Sabbath by being used, and neither are we.

Well one thing is for certain, there were thousands of sick people in Israel every day of Jesus' Life. And HE had the power to create or instruct the Body to create healing centers and hire people on God's Sabbaths to man them and keep them clean, to heal all the sick people of His Time. But HE didn't. He even spoke about this as it pertained to Elisha's time, and Naaman's. So there is a truth and a teaching here. But I don't believe the teaching was to promote God's Church to inject themselves into this world's 24/7 healthcare system.

The Pharisees were selling sacrifices on God's Holy Sabbaths, and the money exchangers were working to, and no doubt they "justified" their behavior by telling themselves they were promoting the Law of Moses.. The problem it seems, if we have been taught, by religions like the Pharisees, to "Justify" whatever lifestyle a man chooses. If a man wants to make another 52 days a year worth of wages, to increase his power, because in this world money is power, then he will work on God's Holy Sabbath, and justify it by quoting a verse in the Bible, separating it from the rest of the bible, and then point to is and say, "See, God Wants me to work on His Holy Sabbath". We are drawn away from this truth by a religious world that despises God's Judgments defining what is clean, Holy, Righteous and good, and have gone about establishing their own righteousness, holiness and clean. A world that despised the Feasts of the Lord, and have created their own high days instead. A world that has polluted God's Holy Sabbath, and have created their own. It was the same in Jesus Time, in David's Time, in Abraham's Time, in Noah's Time, and in Abel's time as well.

What I have come to understand is that the Sabbath Commandment means nothing, unless it is honored and obeyed from the heart. Just as killing a goat for your sins meant nothing, if it wasn't representative of the sorrow and repentance from a contrite heart.

At least this is become my understanding, having set apart His Sabbath in respect and honor and Love for God. Not because a theologian named Miller or White directed me to do so, but because the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, who I have Yielded myself a servant to obey, directed me to do so. At first I couldn't see the profitability of such a commandment. But having obeyed from the heart, my understanding has changed, and I am very thankful for the instruction to fast from the rigors of this evil world, on a day "God" Esteems as above others, not a religious tradition of some man who has transformed himself into an Apostle of God.

It’s a strange reality to think about the fact that a temple can deliver your mail or heal your wound or tend a garden or do all the other things that humans do, but it is true. We aren’t God, but we are serving Him now with everything we do, and that should take some pressure off.

It is certainly good to have such discussions in such an evil world. And I appreciate your reply.

 

[ARBITER01]

I am simply wondering what the answer to the poll question is. No hard feelings to Sabbath worshippers intended, I am simply curious.

If you do keep the Sabbath, how do you observe it? How you do believe Christians should observe it?

Voted no,...

2Co 5:16 Wherefore, we henceforth know no one according to the flesh; even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now no longer do we know Him thus.

Christ-likeness is a Spiritual walk of a leading by The Holy Spirit, not of our flesh/culture.

 

[HIM]

As I said, if you want to put yourself under the yoke of the law that's your business. But in doing so you are not honoring Christ, because you are declaring His death without effect.

Did you, or did you not die to the law? How then can you live under it any longer?

The only way one dies to the law is to die to sin and not live any longer therein. If we sin we have NOT died to the Law. This is the context of chapter 6 and 7 of Romans.

 

[Fervent]

The only way one dies to the law is to die to sin and not live any longer therein. If we sin we have died to the Law. This is the context of chapter 6 and 7 of Romans.

We die to sin by being joined with Christ, not through our personal performance. The law passed away when the testator died, just as the death of a spouse frees one from a marriage. To re-establish the law is to deny the efficacy of Christ's death.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus said not to break the least of these commandments as it affects our status in heaven, never did He say we can't worship other gods, or steal from our neighbor until the Cross, but at the Cross, now we are free to do what feels good to each of us so if you want to worship other gods, or steal from your neighbor and break every commandment under My mercy seat Exo20:6 Exo25:21 Rev15:5 Rev11:19 feel free, sounds dangerous to me. I can see how this sounds appealing to the ears, but its not Scriptural.

This is the laws that ended, the ones that were predicted.

Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a [a]covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

Heb 10;1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once [a]purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, [b]O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been [c]sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Jesus is now who we go to when we sin and break God's commandments.

Sin is still the same as it was before- breaking the law of God 1John3:4 breaking one commandment we break them all James2:11

Why this law guards the gates of heaven- the law of God, what sits under His mercy seat and defines His righteousness (what is right-doing) not what "feels" good to us.

This is what we want to hear when He comes back, which requires a change of heart and change of direction

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

This is not what we want to hear. Rev22:15 or Mat7:23 those who did not subject themselves to the law of God Rom8:7-8 Today we have time to make better decisions Heb3:7-19 but one day soon our decisions will be sealed Rev22:11

 

[HIM]

We die to sin by being joined with Christ, not through our personal performance. The law passed away when the testator died, just as the death of a spouse frees one from a marriage. To re-establish the law is to deny the efficacy of Christ's death.

How shall we who are dead to sin live longer therein from verse 6:1 says different. Chapter 6 amd 8 are full of such gems. Shall we post them and let our faith be built through the spirit? Or shall we continue to follow our own inclinations?

 

[Fervent]

How shall we who are dead to sin live longer therein from verse 6:1 says different. Chapter 6 amd 8 are full of such gems. Shall we post them and let our faith be built through the spirit? Or shall we continue to follow our own inclinations?

Ever learning, but never understanding. Of course we cannot live in sin any longer, but that doesn't lead us to run back to Egypt and re-establish the law that brought sin to full sinfulness.

 

[Hentenza]

The only way one dies to the law is to die to sin and not live any longer therein. If we sin we have NOT died to the Law. This is the context of chapter 6 and 7 of Romans.

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 8:1-4 Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c

bible.com

What does these verses mean to you? Why does Paul say that there is no condemnation for those in Christ?

 

[HIM]

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 8:1-4 Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c

bible.com

What does these verses mean to you? Why does Paul say that there is no condemnation for those in Christ?

Paul says not I, the evil that he would not, that he does in verse 7:19. He continues to say in respect to that he finds a law and that this law is that when he would do good evil is present with him in verse 7:21. Then he says that he delights in the Law of God in his inner man but sees this other Law warring against the Law of God that is in his inner man. And this other law is the Law of sin, that Evil that he would not but does that is present with Him even though He would do Good, the Law that He delights in, the Law of God that is in his members. This is put forward in verse 23. Then in verse 24 he cries out in despair asking, who shall deliver him from this body of death. For the wages of sin is death. In this state he knows his hope and proclaims that through Christ Jesus he thanks God in that he serves the Law of God with His mind, but alas his flesh serves this Law of sin, that law that when he would do good evil is present with Him in his flesh.

Chapter 8 says the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from this law of sin and the wages of it, death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, condemned sin in the flesh. That power it had over us. that the righteousness of the Law of God that He delights in be fulfilled in us, who walk after the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and not after the flesh. For if we walk after the flesh we shall die. But if we mortify the deeds of the body we shall live.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Hentenza]

Paul says not I, the evil that he would not, that he does in verse 7:19. He continues to say in respect to that he finds a law and that this law is that when he would do good evil is present with him in verse 7:21. Then he says that he delights in the Law of God in his inner man but sees this other Law warring against the Law of God that is in his inner man. And this other law is the Law of sin, that Evil that he would not but does that is present with Him even though He would do Good, the Law that He delights in, the Law of God that is in his members. This is put forward in verse 23. Then in verse 24 he cries out in despair asking, who shall deliver him from this body of death. For the wages of sin is death. In this state he knows his hope and proclaims that through Christ Jesus he thanks God in that he serves the Law of God with His mind, but alas his flesh serves this Law of sin, that law that when he would do good evil is present with Him in his flesh.

Chapter 8 says the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from this law of sin and the wages of it, death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, condemned sin in the flesh. That power it had over us. that the righteousness of the Law of God that He delights in be fulfilled in us, who walk after the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and not after the flesh. For if we walk after the flesh we shall die. But if we mortify the deeds of the body we shall live.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Ok but the in chapter 8 the first verse begins with “therefore” which means that a conclusion of the previous argument is forthcoming. So therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Do what does that mean? Why is there no condemnation to all that are in Christ?

 

[HIM]

Ok but the in chapter 8 the first verse begins with “therefore” which means that a conclusion of the previous argument is forthcoming. So therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Do what does that mean? Why is there no condemnation to all that are in Christ?

Because Chapter 8 says the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from this law of sin and the wages of it, death. Therefore no condemnation. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, condemned sin in the flesh. That power it had over us. that the righteousness of the Law of God that He delights in be fulfilled in us, who walk after the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and not after the flesh. For if we walk after the flesh we shall die. But if we mortify the deeds of the body we shall live.

 

[Hentenza]

Because Chapter 8 says the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from this law of sin and the wages of it, death. Therefore no condemnation. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, condemned sin in the flesh. That power it had over us. that the righteousness of the Law of God that He delights in be fulfilled in us, who walk after the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and not after the flesh. For if we walk after the flesh we shall die. But if we mortify the deeds of the body we shall live.

So the law can no longer condemn those that are in Christ because the law was weak and ineffective. So then if we walk in the Spirit of life then it is the Holy Spirit that condemns us now, right?