The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

[Jerry N.]

“You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.””
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭35‬:‭3‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Exodus 35:3 You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

bible.com

I don’t understand what part of not to have a fire in ANY dwelling on the Sabbath day do you not understand.


“See, the Lord has given you the Sabbath; for that reason He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain, everyone, in his place; no one is to leave his place on the seventh day.””
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭16‬:‭29‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Exodus 16:29 See, the LORD has given you the Sabbath; for that reason He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain, everyone, in his place; no one is to leave his place on the seventh day.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020)

See, the LORD has given you the Sabbath; for that reason He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain, everyone, in his place; no one is to leave his place on the seventh day.”

bible.com

Not to leave their place precludes them from going for a walk.

Christians are not under the law so you don’t have to follow the Jewish law. But it does say what it says.

Based on Acts 1:12, a Sabbath journey is about 0.57 miles or 0.91 kilometers.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Incorrect - it is talking about faith which is given to persons in different measures.

Ok, so just ignore but not to have quarrels over opinions

I am not familiar with the concept in the Bible that faith starts deleting the commandment of God. This same author said faith does not void the law, it does the opposite, it establishes the law Rom3:31

Guess we will have to agree to disagree and this will be sorted out soon enough.

Be well.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Ratified is the wrong word...

Are you claiming Jesus did not ratify His covenant at His Cross? Do you have a verse please? I can show you otherwise.

not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

This is a good example of needing to be careful with Paul’s writings.

The Greek word end here means goal. Not the law ended.

τέλος télos, tel'-os; from a primary τέλλω téllō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness is what it means. And I would consider the warning Paul is making of establishing our own righteousness (right and wrong doing) over God’s Psa119:172 Isa 56:1-2 which is everlasting Psa119:142

Paul never taught lawlessness, he is just hard to understand and sadly people use isolated verses out of context against the teachings and example of Jesus Christ and even what Paul taught 1Cor7:19 and kept. Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

“Keeping the Law” means different things to different people. Some think it refers only to the Ten Commandments, while others believe it includes the immediate commands of the Holy Spirit and is therefore much broader than the Ten Commandments. But the fact remains that for the born-again believer, sin is no longer primarily about the Law—it is about a Person: Jesus Christ.

Scripture plainly teaches that believers in Christ are no longer under the Law as a covenant or as a means of righteousness before God. Paul states directly, “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace” (Romans 6:14), and again, “If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law” (Galatians 5:18). To be “under the Law” is to be under its condemnation and jurisdiction as the system that determines one’s standing before God. That entire system has been replaced.

The Law was given for a temporary purpose—to point forward to Christ. Paul explains, “The law was our tutor to bring us to Christ… but after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor” (Galatians 3:24–25). Christ is the fulfillment and goal of the Law, for “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” (Romans 10:4). Once the promised Savior arrived, the tutor’s role was complete.

In our union with Christ, believers have died to the Law’s authority. “You also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ… that you may be married to another” (Romans 7:4). A death changes legal jurisdiction—just as the law of marriage no longer governs a widow, so the Law of Moses no longer governs those joined to Christ by faith.

Because of this, righteousness no longer comes through law-keeping but through Jesus Christ alone. Paul insists that we “are not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ” (Galatians 2:16), and warns that if righteousness were still attainable through the Law, “then Christ died in vain” (Galatians 2:21). The cross nullifies any attempt to earn acceptance before God through commandments.

This transition from Law to Christ reflects the major shift in redemptive history—the new covenant has replaced the old. Hebrews 8:13 says that by establishing a “new covenant,” Christ has made the first “obsolete.” Hebrews 10:9 adds, “He takes away the first that He may establish the second.” The covenantal system in which the Law operated has been decisively superseded by the work and authority of Christ.

Therefore, Christians do not live lawlessly—we live under a new and better authority: the law of Christ, empowered by the Holy Spirit. “The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death” (Romans 8:2). As we bear one another’s burdens, we “fulfill the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2). The Spirit writes God’s moral will on our hearts and empowers what the old covenant could only demand externally.

Sin still exists, because at its root sin is rebellion against God’s authority. But Jesus Christ takes us beyond mere law-keeping into true holiness—holiness not measured by the Law but by God Himself. He leads us not into a life obsessed with rules, but into a life transformed by His presence, reflecting His character, and empowered by His grace.


One can't break what they are no longer under. What we are under is greater than the law. Looking at the law all the time means we are not looking at Christ the real author and finisher of our faith.

God is not a bean counter that holds us up to His standard. God is our good father. If you have kids, do you put yur standard above them? He is not one who says love me or else I will kill you, He is a father calling the spiritually dead back to life. If they refuse He will not force them.

Christ came to reveal the Father to us, something the law can only dimmly filicker at. We have the law giver now instead of the law.

It does not address some of our modern life styles. For instance, do you purchase electricity on the sabbath? If use any type of electricity, then you do. Do you run your furnace in the winter at your house? You are violating the 4th commandment if you do. We could go on but as you can see it is not as easy as one would think unless they thought that they had it right and everyne elsehad it wrong.

Do you have picture or sculptures in your house. That is violating the 2 command. You might say that that is way too petty--well there you go interpreting how you're going to keep the law. Thou shall not kill. What about mice, or mosquitoes? If you say those are Ok to kill, then you have interpreted the law in a way that makes sense to you.

And you think that this is not possible even in this day in age. Examine your own feelings. Do you feel more knowledgeable, more obedient, mor righteous than a person who keeps Sunday? If you don't, if you actually feel shoulder to shoulder with your fellow sunday keeping christians, then why spend time critiquing their law keeping?

The pharasees felt that they were just as good if not better at keeping the law than you or I. So, what is the difference? What makes your sabbath keeping superior to theirs?

You can't help it. No human can. We all are prone to think that we have it right and those who see it differently have it wrong. But the bible says that we each fall or rise to our owmn master.

Even then it is still like filthy rags. What we need is Christ's righteousness which takes us beyond the mere keeping of the Ten Commandments to fellowship With Christ as our elder brother and God Almaighty as our Loving Father.

We need to let the Bible define things and not take a phrase and apply it to our own definitions. Like what God defined as His commandments, I would think that should count for something, or what is God’s righteousness (right and wrong doing). What under the law means, because you are using it a way thats contrary to what the Bible says. Too many things do not make sense, like we have the law giver, implying so we can ignore what the law giver asks of us, if we love Him. Or we can apply God’s written and spoken commandments HisTestimony to something different than what He said in that commandment. What’s the point of having what God deems as right or wrong (His righteousness Psa119:172 which is everlasting Psa119:142 if we are going to ignore it and replace it with our own righteousness (what we feel is right or wrong). These are all just nonsensical arguements.

I wish I could go down this journey with you and show you these things through the Bible, but my guess is I would be doing so in vain and I already spend too much time on this forum. So I am going to move on . All will get sorted out when Jesus comes. Be well.

 

[Studyman]

And how does that relate to the verses that you ignored?

I didn't ignore any verses, just pointing out that taking a few Words of God from the Bible and separating it from the rest of the Bible, then creating doctrine from it, is how the the prince of this world deceived Eve. The preaching that God's Law demanded that Israel couldn't warm themselves or their children, or have a lantern fort light on the Sabbath is absurd. Because I understand that God talks in parables, and HE wants men to "Seek His Righteousness", I have given this some thought and considered more than just one sentence from the Bible.

Prov. 26: 21 As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.

Is. 43: 2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

Jer. 17:27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

I won't do the study for you. And if you want to believe popular religious philosophy that by God's LAW, an Israelite was forced to live in the cold, with no light in their home on God's Holy Sabbath, that is your choice and you are free to do so.. "Kindle a fire" has a Spiritual meaning in my view, just like "drinking the Blood of Christ" and "eating the Flesh of Christ", also has a Spiritual meaning. And how can a man know the meaning, if he separates the sentence for the rest of the entire Bible, and then create doctrine from it?

That is my point.

 

[Mercy Shown]

We need to let the Bible define things and not take a phrase and apply it to our own definitions. Like what God defined as His commandments, I would think that should count for something, or what is God’s righteousness (right and wrong doing). What under the law means, because you are using it a way thats contrary to what the Bible says. Too many things do not make sense, like we have the law giver, implying so we can ignore what the law giver asks of us, if we love Him. Or we can apply God’s written and spoken commandments HisTestimony to something different than what He said in that commandment. What’s the point of having what God deems as right or wrong (His righteousness Psa119:172 which is everlasting Psa119:142 if we are going to ignore it and replace it with our own righteousness (what we feel is right or wrong). These are all just nonsensical arguements.

That is not at all what I was implying. It’s actually the opposite. When we are under the Law, we stand condemned to die. If you read the Law as it is laid out in Scripture, there is no built-in provision for forgiveness or redemption. Once the Law is broken, the only verdict it can pronounce is guilt and the only sentence it can give is death. As Paul wrote in Galatians 3:10–14:

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

God’s Law is righteous and eternal, but forgiveness cannot come from the Law itself. If God were to simply overlook sin, He would deny the very justice His Law upholds. The curse and penalty for sin must be carried out — and since all have sinned (Romans 3:23), every one of us is doomed under the Law’s demands.

But Christ stepped in. He took the full condemnation the Law required (Isaiah 53:5–6; 2 Corinthians 5:21). He satisfied God’s justice on our behalf and paid the price of our sin in full. Now we belong to Christ rather than to the Law (Romans 7:4). The Law still exists, but we are no longer indebted to it — Jesus paid it all. Because of that, our allegiance and accountability are now to Him. The Law condemns, but only Christ redeems.

Since through faith we have received the promised Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13–14), we now walk according to the Spirit instead of according to the Law (Romans 8:1–4). And here is the real question: do you think the Spirit will produce less righteousness in us than our own attempts to keep the Law? Or will following Christ lead us into a greater, deeper righteousness — one that flows from the heart rather than from tablets of stone?

I wish I could go down this journey with you and show you these things through the Bible, but my guess is I would be doing so in vain and I already spend too much time on this forum. So I am going to move on . All will get sorted out when Jesus comes. Be well.

I would hope that you would read this post prayfully and study all of the references in it.

 

[Hentenza]

I didn't ignore any verses, just pointing out that taking a few Words of God from the Bible and separating it from the rest of the Bible, then creating doctrine from it, is how the the prince of this world deceived Eve. The preaching that God's Law demanded that Israel couldn't warm themselves or their children, or have a lantern fort light on the Sabbath is absurd. Because I understand that God talks in parables, and HE wants men to "Seek His Righteousness", I have given this some thought and considered more than just one sentence from the Bible.

Prov. 26: 21 As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.

Is. 43: 2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

Jer. 17:27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

I won't do the study for you. And if you want to believe popular religious philosophy that by God's LAW, an Israelite was forced to live in the cold, with no light in their home on God's Holy Sabbath, that is your choice and you are free to do so.. "Kindle a fire" has a Spiritual meaning in my view, just like "drinking the Blood of Christ" and "eating the Flesh of Christ", also has a Spiritual meaning. And how can a man know the meaning, if he separates the sentence for the rest of the entire Bible, and then create doctrine from it?

That is my point.

What you are arguing is that the simple reading of the verse in Exodus explaining a statute of how to keep the sabbath is trumped by your interpretation of verses that are unrelated to the verse in Exodus? Is that the study that you want me to do?

I would suggest a study on hermeneutics to help you understand how to interpret scripture.

In fact, in the NT Jesus spends a lot of time refuting the Jewish leaders of the time interpretation on how to keep the sabbath and this issue never came up.

Secondly, your argument of the fire to warm families falls flat when you realize that the prevailing temperature in Israel is rather warm with the lower temps in winter in the middle fifties.

Third, the verse is there and you can’t just ignore it simply because you don’t like it. My argument was never an exegesis of the verse but simply pointing out to you that it does exist when you claimed that it did not. You have already been proven wrong because the verse does in fact exist. All I expected from you was a “thanks I missed it” not an argument about its significance. I think you are just arguing for the sake of argument. Count me out.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

we now walk according to the Spirit instead of according to the Law (Romans 8:1–4).

This is not what this verse says, you are making it sound like God's Spirit is against God's Law. There is no "instead" in these verses as if its either or. Paul is contrasting what it means to be spiritually minded verses carnally minded. And his conclusion is the opposite of instead of according to God's laws.


Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

What is the law of sin and death? Rom6:23 the wages of sin is death, so breaking God's law which is sin deserves death

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

The flesh is what is weak, not the law. Paul said in the previous chapter the law is holy, just and good Rom7:12

Paul says

Rom7: 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members

Paul is contrasting the war of sin with the flesh (that breaks God's law) with serving the law of God (Rom7:7) according to the inward man Heb8:10 2Cor3:3

Rom7:25 So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul in Chapter 8 talks about victory over the law of sin and it's not breaking God's laws, it's the opposite

Rom8: 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit

Serving the Spirit fulfills the righteous requirement of the law of God from the inside out (the inward man i.e. the New Covenant God's law in our hearts and minds) keeping them based on what God does in us if are cooperating. Those who are walking in the Spirit are not breaking God's laws, they are keeping them through the Spirit.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.


5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life (Mat 19:17-19) and peace (Isa48:18 Psa119:165).

This is what Paul says plainly as the lost, so if we are saying we can walk in His Spirit instead of obeying God's laws Paul flat out says thats serving the law of sin and being carnally minded which makes one an enemy to God.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

And here is the real question: do you think the Spirit will produce less righteousness in us than our own attempts to keep the Law?

No one can keep the law without the Spirit, but the Spirit is leading us to keep God's laws, not break them. That's the spirit we don't want Isa8:20

The Holy Spirit is the One who wrote the Ten Commandments. Exo 31:18 Luke 11:20 Mat 12:28 The Holy Spirit is the One who convicts us of sin when we break them. 1John3:4 John16:8 if we hear His voice Heb3:7-19 The Holy Spirit is the One who helps us keep these commandments if we love Jesus and cooperate with Him. John14:15-18 The Holy Spirit only resides with those who obey Acts 5:32. No one is sealed by the Holy Spirit if being in rebellion to the law of God.

Isa 8:16 Bind up the testimony, Seal the law among my disciples.

Or will following Christ lead us into a greater, deeper righteousness — one that flows from the heart rather than from tablets of stone?

God placed the Law that was written on tablets of stone to being written in the heart 2Cor3:3 its the same Law, but placed in a new location, the heart and this NC is established on the better promises of what God does in us, (fulfilling the righteous requirement of the law or keeping them) if we are not rebelling Rom8:7-8 but cooperating John14:15-18


Worshipping another god is not going to lead anyone to a greater deeper righteousness than obeying what God asked us to do if we love Him? Or breaking the least of these commandments doing the opposite of what Jesus said Mat5:19-30 is going to lead us to Christ when we are told those who say they know Him and do not keep His commandments is a liar and there is no truth in them 1John2:4 and Jesus will say at His Second Coming, I do not know you, depart from Me, ye who practices lawlessness,Mat7:23 this is not going to lead anyone to Christ. This has never worked out for anyone in all of Scriptures, it only separates us Isa59:2 Rev22:15 Mat7:21-23 obedience through love and faith reconciles 1John2:3 Rev14:12 Rev 22:14 but we are free to test any theory we want, even if our Heavenly Father warns against it.

I would hope that you would read this post prayfully and study all of the references in it.

Amen, we should pray for everything as I hope you will as well to these plain Scriptures.

 

[Studyman]

They erected tents. It is in scripture you know.

Yes, the Scriptures taught that "many" would travel to the Tabernacle or Solomons Temple to hear Moses on the Sabbath Days. I don't believe they were in transgression of God's Commandments because they "left their place", although there are "many" who imply this very thing.

Once again, when a person considers more than just one sentence from the bible, as Jesus and Paul instruct, a more clear understanding of the intended message is found.

“Now the rest of the people, the priests, the Levites, the gatekeepers, the singers, the temple servants, and all those who had separated themselves from the peoples of the lands to the Law of God, their wives, their sons, and their daughters, all those who had knowledge and understanding, are joining with their kinsmen, their nobles, and are taking on themselves a curse and an oath to walk in God’s Law, which was given through Moses, God’s servant, and to keep and to comply with all the commandments of God our Lord, and His ordinances and statutes; and that we will not give our daughters to the peoples of the land or take their daughters for our sons.”
‭‭Nehemiah‬ ‭10‬:‭28‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Nehemiah 10:28-30 Now the rest of the people, the priests, the Levites, the gatekeepers, the singers, the temple servants, and all those who had separated themselves from the peoples of the lands to the Law of God, the | New American Standard Bible -

Now the rest of the people, the priests, the Levites, the gatekeepers, the singers, the temple servants, and all those who had separated themselves from the peoples of the lands to the Law of God, the

bible.com

Again, had you just considered more of God's Word:

31 And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt.

Why would they have to state this? Aren't you disagreeing with my post concerning whose Law the Jews were following?

Neh. 13: 15 In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals. 16 There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.

And in Jesus Time, what were the Jews doing?

Matt. 21: 12 And Jesus went into "the temple of God", and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

And again:

Mark 7: 6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject "the commandment of God", that ye may keep "your own tradition".

So once again, I said "The Jewish law was not Gods law", and you posted one verse, separated from the rest of the bible, to prove that the Jews Law was God's Law.

But when a person considers more than just a sentence here and a sentence there, but considers "Every Word of God", it becomes absolute biblical fact that the Jews, (Except for the Faithful) were not living by or promoting God's Law. As both Jesus and His Father told men, if they would only believe Them.

Is. 29: 13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Jesus NEVER broke a single law. Jesus taught the Pharisees and Sadducees HOW to properly keep the law.

That's right, it was never against God's Law to take a walk in fellowship on the Sabbath Days and pick a blackberry along the way to eat. It was against the "Jews Religion", not God's Laws.

So who are those with false teachings?

Well Jesus warned about them and said they are "many". It seems that a person that " saith he abideth in him ought himself also" to know.

Jesus did not transgress any law or commandment. None.

Yes, it is not now, nor has it ever been against God's Law to take a walk on God's Holy Sabbath Day, and pick an apple or ear of corn along the way to eat. Not was it against God's Law to have a lantern or heat in your home on the Sabbath Days.

It is against "mans" Law/philosophy/doctrine, but it was never against God's Law.

 

[Hentenza]

Yes, it is not now, nor has it ever been against God's Law to take a walk on God's Holy Sabbath Day, and pick an apple or ear of corn along the way to eat. Not was it against God's Law to have a lantern or heat in your home on the Sabbath Days.

It is against "mans" Law/philosophy/doctrine, but it was never against God's Law.

Not even the Sabbath keeping is part of the new covenant. All of the law, including the Ten Commandments, has been fulfilled(completed) by Jesus sacrifice on the cross so again your argument is moot.

 

[Bob S]

After reading all the debating, I have a question: where in all the scriptures does God ever demand that Gentiles observe the law concerning the keeping of the weekly Sabbath or any of the eight other high Sabbaths? Another question: Israelites had to become circumcised, obviously to take part in the ceremonial requirements. 11 "You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you." Gen 17. If Gentiles are, at some point, required to take part in the Israelite ceremonies, where is the command for us to be circumcised?

The only way a Gentile could take part in the rituals God gave only to the Israelites was to convert. Is it any wonder that Paul wrote so much about the Old Covenant law being done away? Eph 2:
11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

 

[Studyman]

Not even the Sabbath keeping is part of the new covenant. All of the law, including the Ten Commandments, has been fulfilled(completed) by Jesus sacrifice on the cross so again your argument is moot.

That is a popular religious philosophy of this world God placed me in. It is founded on the philosophy that "Fulfill and abolish" are not opposite, but the same.

When I read God's definition of His Own New Covenant, there is no mention of God's LAWS disappearing or destroyed at all, or even "Coming to an end". You can read it for yourself.

According to what HE tells me, the only change between the New and Old covenant are 2 things.

#1. The Manner in which God's Laws are administered.

In the old covenant men were required to go to the Levite Priests, "After the Order of Aaron", who had exclusive possession of God's Laws, and "hear Moses" through them, as they were the ones God chose to give His Oracles to. But now you and I both have the oracles of God in our own homes, before our very eyes, in our minds (hearts)

#2. The Manner in which forgiveness of sins are provided for.

In the old covenant a man that sinned was required to take a goat to the Levite Priest, and kill it, after which the priest would take the blood and perform works with it, to provide for the remission of Sins. But now, the Prophesied High Priest of God, "After the Order of Melchizedek", has come. And HE will provide for the remission of Sins "Himself".

So as it is written in Heb. 7-10, it was the Priesthood that changed, and Jesus fulfilled the Prophesies concerning it, and this old priesthood sacrificial "works of the law" became obsolete . Not God's definition of Sin, Righteousness, Holy and Good, as "many" who come in Christ's Name promote.

You can read this for yourself and you should, given all the warnings about deceivers who "come in Christ's Name", who do many "wonderful works" in Christ's Name, like maybe building massive religious businesses, shrines of worship, all in His Name. Who cast out demons "in Christs Name".

Remember, according to what is written, God Glorified His Son and gave Him Power and a Name above all others, "Because that Jesus obeyed HIS voice, and kept HIS charge, HIS commandments, HIS statutes, and HIS laws."

 

[Studyman]

After reading all the debating, I have a question: where in all the scriptures does God ever demand that Gentiles observe the law concerning the keeping of the weekly Sabbath or any of the eight other high Sabbaths? Another question: Israelites had to become circumcised, obviously to take part in the ceremonial requirements.

It is also written that unless you eat the flesh of Jesus, you have no life in you. So how wise is it to accept that the eating of Christ's Flesh was a spiritual commandment, but the Circumcision God wanted was not. Did God instruct Moses to pass on, "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked?

The children of Israel that fell in the wilderness were all circumcised in the flesh. Perhaps God didn't make Circumcision are an excuse for men to reject God's Commandments, maybe if a man was "circumcised of the heart", as God instructed, they wouldn't need to justify their rejection of God's commandments.

And it's also needful to remind you that the Children of those who fell in the wilderness crossed over Jordan, and God protected and preserved them to the fear and trembling of the people of that land, and NOT One of them, but Joshua and Caleb were Circumcised.

I advocate that men do the study for themselves, apart from the influences of the religions of this world God placed us in.

 

[Bob S]

No the Ten Commandments was not "done away with" they are in God's heavenly Temple Rev11:18-19 Rev15:5 what man will be judged on regardless if we accept them or not Rev 22:14-15 Ecc 12:13-14 John12:48 Exo20:1 Exo31:18 James2:11-12 covering the law doesn't make it go away, it just makes things worse Pro28:13 John3:19-21

Are you then denying the scripture that tells us they were done away? You use rev 22: 14-15 as a reference. Are you telling me that if I do not observe the rituals given to one nation, Israel, I am a dog? Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Does your reference to Jn 12:48 mean that because I do not observe the Israelite rituals, you believe I am condemned? 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Are you then denying the scripture that tells us they were done away? You use rev 22: 14-15 as a reference. Are you telling me that if I do not observe the rituals given to one nation, Israel, I am a dog? Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Does your reference to Jn 12:48 mean that because I do not observe the Israelite rituals, you believe I am condemned? 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

This is one of the last verses in the Bible before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of the commandments 1 John 2:4) Breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Exo 20:1-17 .

Obviously the Ten Commandments is not being done away with.

They are God's standard of Judgement, why they are under Christ's mercy seat Exo 25:21 where He tells us who He shows mercy to Exo20:6 why its revealed to us at the 7th trumpet before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 11:18-19 Rev15:5 Exo31:18 John 12:48 Exo20:1 James 2:11-12

The Ten Commandments are God's commandments given to all of God's people Rev14:12 Lets let God be God to define His commandments, which He did, both spoken and written by the God of the Universe.

 

[Studyman]

Are you then denying the scripture that tells us they were done away? You use rev 22: 14-15 as a reference. Are you telling me that if I do not observe the rituals given to one nation, Israel, I am a dog? Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Does your reference to Jn 12:48 mean that because I do not observe the Israelite rituals,

It is important not to rewrite scriptures to support preconceived ideas, or popular religious philosophies of this world God placed us in, in my view. God's Holy Sabbath is a "Feast of the Lord", not an "Israelite ritual". This is simply undeniable Biblical Fact. Religious men of this world have polluted it, created their own, rejected it and so forth. Just because a man chooses not to believe God's Very Words, doesn't make God's Words false.

The "Christians" in Matt. 7:22,23, who called Jesus Lord, Lord, but rejected God's commandments, what did Jesus say to them? Did HE say, "Well, because you have judged yourself as acceptable, I guess you are allowed into the Kingdom of God"? He didn't of course. Am I better than they? Shall I live by the same philosophy they chose, and be spared? Those Christians who were speaking to Him face to face "in that day", were they convinced by some voice that they were "Saved"?

These are good discussion to have among men seeking the righteousness of God, in my view.

 

[Hentenza]

That is a popular religious philosophy of this world God placed me in. It is founded on the philosophy that "Fulfill and abolish" are not opposite, but the same.

And as long as you believe that then you will continue to lean towards legalism. Not one letter of the law has disappeared but the intent and application now is what changed.

This is the typical fallacy from the legalists. The moral commandments of the Jewish law including the Ten Commandments were summarized in Jesus’s two commandments.

“Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


Which law and which prophets do you think Jesus is talking about? It says ALL of it not just some of it.

“For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


The WHOLE LAW was fulfilled (completed not abolished) in ONE word. All of the law is now one word in the one commandment. Jesus put all 613 laws including the 10 commandments into one word. I guess that is what happens when Jesus is the only one that was ever able to keep it perfectly therefore nailing all of it to the cross.


So, are those under the law able to confess their sin in order to be forgiven? Were the Jews under the law able to do that? Let me explain to you how is done after Christ sacrifice for the propitiation of our sins. It’s simple really.


“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬


With Jesus we still sin but ALL we have to do now is just confess our sins and He is faithful and forgives us. Can people under the law do that ? Of course not. But how do we know that we are sinning without the law? Well, Jesus tells us of course.

“But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me; and regarding righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you no longer are going to see Me; and regarding judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭7‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

“For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭3‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


The Holy Spirit that Jesus sent now has the responsibility of convicting us of our sins. Why? Because we still sin just like you do and I do, but the good news is that we no longer LIVE in sin because of the guidance of the Spirit. Why would we need the law if we have something much better?

We don’t need the Jewish law including the 10 commandments because we now walk in the spirit not in the law. The law became a curse because of Jesus sacrifice on a tree which is a curse. Jesus completed it fully. There is no verse whatsoever post crucifixion that requires the Christian to keep the Jewish sabbath because the Christian is no longer under the law.

 

[Bob S]

This is one of the last verses in the Bible before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of the commandments 1 John 2:4) Breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Exo 20:1-17 .

Obviously the Ten Commandments is not being done away with.

They are God's standard of Judgement, why they are under Christ's mercy seat Exo 25:21 where He tells us who He shows mercy to Exo20:6 why its revealed to us at the 7th trumpet before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 11:18-19 Rev15:5 Exo31:18 John 12:48 Exo20:1 James 2:11-12

The Ten Commandments are God's commandments given to all of God's people Rev14:12 Lets let God be God to define His commandments, which He did, both spoken and written by the God of the Universe.

Could it be that you are off base and the verses do not mean the Ten Commandments? That it really means breaking the Law of Love that Jesus gave us? The Ten Commandments didn't make a dent in all the ways man can and does sin. Paul points that out in Gal 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Why then, if you think we are under the Ten Commandments would Paul make the statement he did in 2Cor3:11, Gal 3:19, & Eph 2:10-15. Then he wrote in Romans 8 the following: 8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. What was the law of sin and death? Paul explains in 2Cor3 that the Ten Commandments were the ministry of death. All the Ten Commandments could do was to condemn those who broke them. The Law of the Spirit has to be the Law of Love.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Could it be that you are off base and the verses do not mean the Ten Commandments? That it really means breaking the Law of Love that Jesus gave us? The Ten Commandments didn't make a dent in all the ways man can and does sin. Paul points that out in Gal 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Why then, if you think we are under the Ten Commandments would Paul make the statement he did in 2Cor3:11, Gal 3:19, & Eph 2:10-15. Then he wrote in Romans 8 the following: 8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. What was the law of sin and death? Paul explains in 2Cor3 that the Ten Commandments were the ministry of death. All the Ten Commandments could do was to condemn those who broke them. The Law of the Spirit has to be the Law of Love.

The Ten Commandments are the Law of Love. How to love God, how to love man. Romans 13:9 Deut 6:5 from summarizing Deut5. God IS love so it would be impossible for Him to personally write a law by His own finger that wouldn't be about love. God's own Testimony Exo31:18 which is Love. Exo20:6 John14:15

The law is not the issue Rom7:12 Psa19:7, the heart is, when its not right with God sadly, we rebel against His Law Rom8:7-8

I pray you will see this before its too late. If I am not mistaken, its what your family believes.

 

[Bob S]

And as long as you believe that then you will continue to lean towards legalism. Not one letter of the law has disappeared but the intent and application now is what changed.

This is the typical fallacy from the legalists. The moral commandments of the Jewish law including the Ten Commandments were summarized in Jesus’s two commandments.

“Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


Which law and which prophets do you think Jesus is talking about? It says ALL of it not just some of it.

“For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


The WHOLE LAW was fulfilled (completed not abolished) in ONE word. All of the law is now one word in the one commandment. Jesus put all 613 laws including the 10 commandments into one word. I guess that is what happens when Jesus is the only one that was ever able to keep it perfectly therefore nailing all of it to the cross.


So, are those under the law able to confess their sin in order to be forgiven? Were the Jews under the law able to do that? Let me explain to you how is done after Christ sacrifice for the propitiation of our sins. It’s simple really.


“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬


With Jesus we still sin but ALL we have to do now is just confess our sins and He is faithful and forgives us. Can people under the law do that ? Of course not. But how do we know that we are sinning without the law? Well, Jesus tells us of course.

“But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me; and regarding righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you no longer are going to see Me; and regarding judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭7‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

“For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭3‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


The Holy Spirit that Jesus sent now has the responsibility of convicting us of our sins. Why? Because we still sin just like you do and I do, but the good news is that we no longer LIVE in sin because of the guidance of the Spirit. Why would we need the law if we have something much better?

We don’t need the Jewish law including the 10 commandments because we now walk in the spirit not in the law. The law became a curse because of Jesus sacrifice on a tree which is a curse. Jesus completed it fully. There is no verse whatsoever post crucifixion that requires the Christian to keep the Jewish sabbath because the Christian is no longer under the law.

What a great post. Thank you for expressing the things I truly believe.