The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

[Jerry N.]

When Moses was with God and the Israelites were performing debauchery, was it love that God had for them when He told Moses He was going to destroy them?

God had a reason why He formulated the Ten Commandments about duty, and it is not for us to try to change what they meant. They certainly were not portraying love.

The first commandment is about loving God. The second, third, and forth expand on that. The other six commandments are about how we should treat others. Love is not just an emotion; it is also an act of the will. By willingly doing right by others, we express love in the most basic form. By not doing right by others and God, we are not showing love.

 

[Bob S]

Yes, because sin is a deadly disease and if its not exterminated, its going to keep spreading. God's judgments are always based in love, even if we do not understand them.

They seem to be very understandable to me. I am sure that if God had wanted to write the Ten as a love message to the Israelites He could have done so.

The Ten Commandments started way before Moses, according to God. Exo20:11

What makes you think that? Certainly, Ex20:11 is not stating that. How do you take such a verse and completely obliterate it?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

They seem to be very understandable to me. I am sure that if God had wanted to write the Ten as a love message to the Israelites He could have done so.

What makes you think that? Certainly, Ex20:11 is not stating that. How do you take such a verse and completely obliterate it?

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Can you tell me when God made the heavens and earth , the sea and all that is in them. Are you claiming He made that at Mt Sinai. Any Scripture to support this?

 

[Jerry N.]

They seem to be very understandable to me. I am sure that if God had wanted to write the Ten as a love message to the Israelites He could have done so.

The Ten Commandments were a love message. Is it not love to teach your children not to take drugs or do any number of other things that are bad for them? God was doing the same thing.

 

[Hentenza]

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Can you tell me when God made the heavens and earth , the sea and all that is in them. Are you claiming He made that at Mt Sinai. Any Scripture to support this?

Please post a verse before Moses that shows that people kept the sabbath. Also, since Moses wrote the book of Genesis around the 15th century, how did people before then know that God made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th?

 

[Bob S]

The first commandment is about loving God.

Where do you get love from reading the first command? 3 “You shall have no other gods before[ me.

The second, third, and forth expand on that.

Where?

The other six commandments are about how we should treat others.

I agree. The fact is that He did not tell the Israelites to love them. They certainly could have treated them with love. That is what Jesus taught, but the Ten are written so that the Israelites could do that out of duty to their fellow man.

Love is not just an emotion; it is also an act of the will. By willingly doing right by others, we express love in the most basic form. By not doing right by others and God, we are not showing love.

Where do you get that from reading the Ten Commandments Jerry?The Israelites were to love to do the will of God. They were to love their neighbors and do nothing to harm them or

 

[Bob S]

The Ten Commandments were a love message. Is it not love to teach your children not to take drugs or do any number of other things that are bad for them? God was doing the same thing.

No, they were written as a duty. If you were to write a love message to your spouse, would you start it with Thou shalt not

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Please post a verse before Moses that shows that people kept the sabbath. Also, since Moses wrote the book of Genesis around the 15th century, how did people before then know that God made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th?

How did God communicate with any of His people in the beginning of time? Not sure if your church teaches to read the OT because it has this answer clearly.

You would need to prove Gen26:5 does not include the Sabbath as one of God's commandments, when God said it is. Deut4:13 Exo34:28 Exo20:6 or Mark2:27 that the Greek word Jesus used means mankind and Hebrew word means Adam.

I am not interested in this same debate with you. It's not going to change either of our views, I have answered these questions too many times.

God will sort this all out soon enough.

 

[Bob S]

In an earlier post, I asked where God tells Gentiles they had to observe the rituals given only to Israel. If He has not then why do some feel that they are obligated to laws that never pertained to Gentiles?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

In an earlier post, I asked where God tells Gentiles they had to observe the rituals given only to Israel. If He has not then why do some feel that they are obligated to laws that never pertained to Gentiles?

​

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 56 - New King James Version

Salvation for the Gentiles - Thus says the Lord: “Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from...

www.biblegateway.com

​

Salvation for the Gentiles​

56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give [a]them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

Why Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27

There was always a provision in the 4th commandment for everyone

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

God wants to bless and sanctify everyone Isa56:2 Eze 20:12 because He knows we can't do that ourselves Isa66:17 we need God.

 

[Jerry N.]

Where do you get love from reading the first command? 3 “You shall have no other gods before[ me.

Where?

I agree. The fact is that He did not tell the Israelites to love them. They certainly could have treated them with love. That is what Jesus taught, but the Ten are written so that the Israelites could do that out of duty to their fellow man.

Where do you get that from reading the Ten Commandments Jerry?The Israelites were to love to do the will of God. They were to love their neighbors and do nothing to harm them or

Deuteronomy 6:4-9​

4 “Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one[a]. 5 Love Adonai your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. [b] 6 These words, which I am commanding you today, are to be on your heart. 7 You are to teach them diligently to your children, and speak of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down and when you rise up. 8 Bind them as a sign on your hand, they are to be as frontlets[c] between your eyes, 9 and write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

 

[Jerry N.]

No, they were written as a duty. If you were to write a love message to your spouse, would you start it with Thou shalt not

Is it a duty you are teaching your children not to take drugs?

 

[Jerry N.]

In an earlier post, I asked where God tells Gentiles they had to observe the rituals given only to Israel. If He has not then why do some feel that they are obligated to laws that never pertained to Gentiles?

We are not obligated to do anything. We follow God’s law because it is good. Are you obligated not to commit adultery? When the apostles wrote “You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.” (Acts 15:29), it was the minimum not maximum.

 

[Studyman]

And as long as you believe that then you will continue to lean towards legalism.

Since you are preaching to me and have judged me as leaning towards "Legalism", lets look and what a Legalist actually is.

le·gal·ism
[ˈliːɡəlɪz(ə)m]
noun
legalism (noun)
legalisms (plural noun)

1. excessive adherence to law or formula:
   "this petty legalism encouraged more to flee"
   

What does the Bible teach about the Jesus "of the Bible"?

Phil. 2: 5 "Let this mind be in you", which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

So whose Law was Jesus so excessively adherent to, even unto death? The Pharisees Law? Or God's Law?

What does Paul teach?

1 Cor. 7: Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Whose Words did Jesus say men should "live by"? Didn't HE say men shall live by "Every Word" of God?

Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, "even as your Father which is in heaven" is perfect.

Didn't Jesus forgive a sinner, and then tell him, "Now Go and Transgress God's Commandments no more"?

And the Prophet's Spirit of Christ's inspired words;

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear "the conclusion of the whole matter": Fear God, and "keep his commandments": for "this is the whole duty of man". 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

So then, a man striving to be Perfect, as Jesus was perfect, who was perfect, even as His Father in heaven is perfect, seems like a pretty "excessive adherence to law or "Way of the Lord"/ formula.

Why then do you judge such a commitment of Faith and self denial in worship and Faith of who Jesus Called, "The One True God" as a wicked or undesirable thing?

Am I not told to have the same mind that was in Jesus?

What if it's this world's religious system, who profess to know God just as the "other voice" in the garden in the beginning, that is against us, and not God's Laws at all?

What if the Bible is true, and Isaac was blessed "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws?"

Strict adherence to God's Laws worked for Abraham, Noah, Caleb, Daniel, Shadrack, Zacharias, Simeon, Paul and All the examples of Faithful men in the Holy Scriptures. Why is "Yielding oneself a servant to obey God" so preached against by this world's mainstream religions?

Doesn't Jesus warn about these very things? Shall we not believe in the Jesus "of the Bible", even if "Many" who call Him Lord, Lord do not?

 

[Studyman]

We are not obligated to do anything. We follow God’s law because it is good. Are you obligated not to commit adultery? When the apostles wrote “You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.” (Acts 15:29), it was the minimum not maximum.

How true. God gave us free will to choose. He wants and accepts a "voluntary humility", a "voluntary denial of ourselves" our thoughts, our lusts, our traditions etc. He wants us to "Learn Obedience", not be forced into obedience.

 

[Hentenza]

How did God communicate with any of His people in the beginning of time? Not sure if your church teaches to read the OT because it has this answer clearly.

He talks to them but no evidence of the sabbath keeping.

You would need to prove Gen26:5 does not include the Sabbath as one of God's commandments, when God said it is. Deut4:13 Exo34:28 Exo20:6 or Mark2:27 that the Greek word Jesus used means mankind and Hebrew word means Adam.

I don’t need to prove anything. You are the one arguing the positive so it is your burden of proof. I already gave you my evidence but you are yet to prove your assertion.

I am not interested in this same debate with you. It's not going to change either of our views, I have answered these questions too many times.

I am debating you for the sake of those who read the threads. And you should understand that the evidence is against you but you continue to defend the indefensible. How long are you going to believe what you can’t prove?

 

[Bob S]

​

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 56 - New King James Version

Salvation for the Gentiles - Thus says the Lord: “Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from...

www.biblegateway.com

​

Salvation for the Gentiles​

56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give [a]them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

Why Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27

There was always a provision in the 4th commandment for everyone

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

God wants to bless and sanctify everyone Isa56:2 Eze 20:12 because He knows we can't do that ourselves Isa66:17 we need God.

The verses you posted do not answer the question I asked. I agree that Gentiles could join themselves to Israel. The fact is that God has never instructed Gentiles to observe any day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

He talks to them but no evidence of the sabbath keeping.

I don’t need to prove anything. You are the one arguing the positive so it is your burden of proof. I already gave you my evidence but you are yet to prove your assertion.

I am debating you for the sake of those who read the threads. And you should understand that the evidence is against you but you continue to defend the indefensible. How long are you going to believe what you can’t prove?

As long as God is our Creator Exo20:11 and Santifer Eze20:12 and we are told to worship this God Rev 14:7 and never once did He abrogate His 4th commandment in the entire Bible, He said to Remember, my faith is in Him and not teachings of man. When God claimed the Ten Commandments as His Deut4:13 Exo 20:6 its God's Testimony Exo31:18 it means no mans teachings are greater.

We have free will and this will be sorted out at His soon return. We just need to prepare ourselves for our decision and where that leads one Rom6:16 Rev 22:11 Mat7:21-23 Rev22:14-15

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The verses you posted do not answer the question I asked. I agree that Gentiles could join themselves to Israel. The fact is that God has never instructed Gentiles to observe any day.

No amount of Scripture is going to make a difference. God of the Universe could write it out Himself and people still wouldn't believe and He did Exo31:18. Sadly, its nothing new under the sun.

Guess it will get sorted out soon enough.

 

[Bob S]

We are not obligated to do anything. We follow God’s law because it is good. Are you obligated not to commit adultery? When the apostles wrote “You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.” (Acts 15:29), it was the minimum not maximum.

If we believe in Jesus and accept His forgiveness, we are, out of love, to do what He has asked. He has never asked us (new covenant Christians) to observe the rituals given only to Israel. He has asked that we love others as He loves us. In fact, Jews, since Calvary, are subject to the New Covenant. The Old Covenant has passed. They are not obligated to keep the Old Covenant rituals. Everyone is under the New Covenant. It is here for all mankind.