I haven't adopted any ancient philosophy, but I have been adopted by God, so I'm a member of His Body. As such I am also indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who keeps me from being deceived by the doctrine of Demons.
It's impossible to deceive those of us who are led by the Holy Spirit, because He leads us in to all truth and teaches us everything that the Lord Jesus taught.
It's interesting how you accuse me of promoting a man made religious system, and you say it's not consistent with what the Bible teaches. Then you refuse to discuss the verses I referenced, claiming that I have have taken them out of context, but you didn't specify or identify any of my supposed errors.
Sorry I wasn't able to define for you my understanding in a way that you can understand. I don't believe when all the Word's of God are considered, that men are born having already ate of the tree of life, and are immortal. I suppose if a man takes a verse here and there, and separates them from the rest of the Bible, that a case might be made that supports the religious belief that men are born immortal. And clearly you believe you are. But in my understanding, we both will die and stay that way until a power much greater than us, raises us from the dead.
I have asked you over and over again to either accept or deny the fact that the Bible describes "death" in various ways and contexts. The verses described different types of "death", and none of them support your religious denominational views.
I get the sense that you refuse to deal with the scriptures I quoted, because you denomination avoids those verses because they expose your doctrinal views as unbiblical and they are instead based on the opinions of fallen men.
"Feelings" are experienced by men that are alive. When we die, there are no more "feelings". The verses that the promoters of the religious philosophy use, to promote the doctrine that men are born immortal, have a different meaning, in my view, when more of God's Teaching on the subject of death and immortality are considered.
For instance, in the very beginning, another voice in the garden God placed Eve in, who professed to know God, tried to convince Eve that she too, was already created immortal. And He quoted some of God's Word in his attempt to deceive her. Remember, the Spirit of God was right there. This self proclaimed minister of righteousness, accurately quoted God, "
And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And truly, if I went to the bible and looked, I would find the Words of God, "
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:"
So this preacher could create an entire philosophy centered around this verse, and if anyone disagreed with him, he could just say, " you refuse to deal with the scriptures I quoted". But that wouldn't be true would it. It's not that we refuse to consider that verse, as the adversary might accuse us, it's because we have already heard and believed "ALL" of God's Teaching concerning the Tree of Good and Evil and
"because" we have considered Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God on the subject, we know that Eve would die if she ate of the tree.
So I have not "refused" to deal with the scriptures you separated from the rest of the Bible, to support your belief that men are born immortal. I simply understand that without considering and believing the rest of God's Words on the issue, I leave myself open to deception.
I hope you can understand "the reason why" I disagree with the popular religious philosophy of this world, that men are born immortal. Of course you are free to believe as you wish, and I thank you for sharing with me.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned
Yes, Adam, Noah, Abraham, Sodom, David, the wicked Kings of Israel, Shadrack, Peter Cornelius, James, John, my Mom and my Dad, they are all dead because they have all sinned. And they will stay dead until God's Raises them from the dead.
Now many of these folks died in "Hope" that God would raise them from the dead,
"that they may have right to the tree of life, and "
put forth their hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever".
But according to mainstream teaching, you were already born immortal. And they point to a few verses that are separated out from the rest of the Bible, including these here that I have posted.
This is why, in my view, Jesus said to Live By "EVERY Word" that proceeds from the mouth of God, on any given subject. When this is done concerning the Death that befalls all men because of Sin, is become clear that men ate not born with immortal souls/spirits etc. Immortality is a gift from God that we were not born with.
You think that death is something that happens at the end of a sinners life, but the Bible refutes your opinion, in ---
God didn't judge Abraham as a Sinner, but he was a man that sinned. And he died, and is still dead, and will remain dead, knowing nothing, feeling nothing, remembering nothing, until God raises Him from the dead. He died in Hope that God would raise him from the dead, and grant to him the promises God made to him.
And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Ephesians 2:1-3 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Well if these men were dead, then they were not immortal. If their "spirit/soul" was dead, then they didn't have an immortal spirit. Even this verse exposes the popular religious philosophy that men are born immortal, as a falsehood.
I don't think you are understanding the Christ's Spirit speaking through Paul here, rather, you are using this sentence to further a popular belief.
Jesus once said: "
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
First, where did you find the Blood of Christ to drink? Or His Flesh to eat? And even if a man were able to find His physical Flesh, and ate it and became "immortal", why did he still die" Why does Jesus have to "Raise him up at the last day", before giving him immortality, if he isn't even dead yet?
All these Scriptures pertain to the topic of this thread. They are all speaking to life and death, the 2 choices God gives to all men. But only to men who are "Alive", when a man dies, there are no more choices, no more disobedience or obedience.
Here Paul is speaking to believers, "born again Christians" (who are not dead anymore), they have been born again. So they were dead and then God made them alive, but according to your opinion Paul must have been drunk or delusional speaking such nonsense.
Go ahead an mock. Jesus said it would be like this for me. But Paul also taught the Body of Christ about returning to death.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin "unto death", or of obedience "unto righteousness"?
Once again, when all of God's Inspired Words are given on a topic, the understanding changes.
I get that you "
have a zeal of God".
My only reason for posting on this topic, is to promote the consideration of "ALL" of God's Words on a topic. Not just a few verses promoted by someone who professes to know God.
The Lord Jesus Himself confirms mans "dead in sin state" by saying that evil come out of a man, so it's not his environment, neither is it that he fell into a bad crowd and they corrupted him. No he is already dead in his sin and there is no good in him at all.
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
Nothing proceeds from the heart of David or Pharoah now. Why is that? Because they are both dead and buried, just as God teaches. And evil thoughts, murders, wickedness, Love, Righteousness, faith, nothing comes from within the heart of a dead man, only the living, as it is written. And they will remain that way until Jesus Comes Back, raises them from the dead, and judges them according to their works they did "When they were alive".
David and Abraham died in HOPE that their names were written by God in the Book of Life. That God will come and raise them from the dead and allow them to eat of the Tree of Life and be granted immortality.
Pharoah believed he was already immortal, he had cats and dogs and riches buried with him to have in the "after life".
David and Abraham believed Every Word God gave for them to hear, while they were alive, although they were not perfect, and did sin.. Pharoah adopted the religious philosophies of this world God placed him in, also not perfect, and did sin, but rejecting much of God's Word while he was alive.
Spiritually speaking Pharoah walked the earth, dead in trespasses and sins. Spiritually speaking David and Abraham the earth "as those" alive from the dead". And yet both died and are buried to this day.
It seems important to understand the difference. in my view.
Why does evil come from within a man?, is it as you claim he choses to exercise his free will to do evil, or is it because he was born spiritually dead, with a sin nature inherited from Adam.
My answer would be decided by considering Every Word of God. But a dead person cannot repent. While a spiritually dead person can repent, and is instructed to repent. In fact, it is the spiritually dead person that needs to repent the most. And the spiritually dead person has this "mortal life", to repent and turn to God. Once he is actually dead, there is no repentance.
There are 7 different types of death mentioned in the Bible, I'll just mention the main 4 below. I hope you don't just reject them out of hand, if they oppose your religious bias.
After you die, none of these 4 or 7 or however many deaths you are promoting exist. The living know they will die. The dead know nothing.
Physical Death: The separation of the body from the soul or spirit. This is the death that happens to everyone due to the fallen nature of humanity.
Spiritual Death: A state of separation from God caused by sin, affecting the unsaved from birth. It is often described as being "dead in sin".
Positional Death: A term used to describe the believer's state in Christ, where they are considered "dead to sin" and "alive to God" through their faith.
Eternal Death: Also known as the "second death," this is the final and everlasting separation from God in hell, which is the ultimate punishment for sin.
None of this proves the foundation of this world's philosophy that you are promoting, that all men are born having already, "
put forth his hand, and took of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever". At least this is my understanding when ALL of God's Word on the subject is considered.
I thank you for your replies and hope the best.
By for now.
