Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[BelieveItOarKnot]

The adversary uses out of context verses to fool Christians.

Nothing personal.

Well, at least you're managing to drag the perp into the picture.

Let me guess though. You're exempt?

So funny

 

[Jerry N.]

View attachment 371292View attachment 371292

I'm afraid that it doesn't work.

 

[Hentenza]

Well, at least you're managing to drag the perp into the picture.

Let me guess though. You're exempt?

So funny

Oh no. The perp messes with everyone but I just tell him to go to hell.

 

[Jipsah]

I'm afraid that it doesn't work.

Well poo

 

[JulieB67]

You know, the part where Satan SINS in everyone via theft

That parable is about hearing the word on good ground and therefore producing fruit because of it. It has noting to do with sin, you have added that yourself. We are all sinners but that does not mean we can't produce good fruit when walking in the spirit. Are you saying you don't? Some receive the gospel and some don't. They might later on, etc but that's what that means -hearing the word of God, which we know from other parts of the bible that produces faith and then we can produce fruit. Why are you inserting sin here?

He did. 3 times. Cited to you how many times now?

We should hear and accept every word as truth. And live by that truth. But once again, not every verse specifically applies to every individual. We have to know the context, who the audience is, what is being discussed etc. You can't seem to understand that.

Uh, yes it was a direct statement from God in Christ multiple times.

No, he specifically separated them into 4 different groups and what type of ground they receive the word upon. Wayside, stony, thorns and good ground. But keep making it up as you go along.

I came to understand Christian Universalism because some patient people waded through the subject matter with me

Yeah, I figured as much. Putting man's word over God's. We were told stuff like this would happen and people would leave sound doctrine. I had to drop some false doctrines that were indoctrinated into me at an early age. It was only later on when I got into the Word that I saw they were unbiblical.

Have you heard the one about God actually saving sinners?

Have you read there are conditions?

You should google them some time.

Why? That's probably your thing but but I have the Word right in front of me. And I've read the conditions. You are totally ignoring Christ's own teachings about repentance, etc. It's very serious and I'll choose his words over yours.

"love your neighbors part?"

Loving our neighbors does not mean we get to throw out God's Word which will not change. God is so long suffering because he himself of course does not want any to perish but to come to repentance. But yeah, let's just throw out that fact as well. According to you he doesn't have to be long suffering.

 

[Jipsah]

Yeah, I figured as much. Putting man's word over God's.

What do you reckon they were studying, the Tao Te Ching?

We were told stuff like this would happen and people would leave sound doctrine.

I'm still trying tofigure out where "everybody lives forever" comes ftom in the Bible with the possible exception of Old Nick's "thou shalt not surely die".

 

[Dan1988]

I was setting you straight concerning my belief that you are promoting to others..



I was showing you God's Inspired Words that I believe, which show that in "death", the kind all mortal humans come to experience, we cease to think, do anything or know anything. But as I said, something exists as God will raise up who I am, just as HE will raise up who Adam was, and judge them according to that which they had done, "before" this death.

It seems important to seek the understanding of "God's teaching" concerning the death that "ALL" mortal humans shall enter, for all have sinned, except One.




I believe in this perfectly. And in my view, God's prophesy shown to us here, has surely come to pass as both Adam and Eve did die, and remain dead just as God Promised them. I have no reason to question God concerning the moment this destiny was placed on them. Clearly it happened when they "Ate" that which God commanded them not to eat.

I'm not sure why you would imply that I never came across this, clearly my posts would inform you otherwise, had you read them..


I believe what is written;

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and "they knew that they were naked"; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Clearly the "death" this God was speaking to, isn't the "death" you are speaking to. This is shown pretty clearly in the Scriptures I posted, that you judged as irrelevant.

Ecc. 9: 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Perhaps if you were to be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and join yourself to this God, as Jesus promotes, you will come to be on the same page with Him concerning Adam and Eve. Of course, it is a choice you must make.



Can you show me the Scriptures where it is said that God is the God of the Dead, and not the Living? Please show me where God teaches in His Word that all human children are "born dead".

I am a student of of His Word, but I have never seen where Jesus is the Lord of the Dead, or that God is the God of the dead. Perhaps you might consider to start listening to the Jesus "of the Bible", and turn away from the religious system of this world.

John 8: 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye "believe not" that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

If they were already "dead", as defined by the Spirit of Christ that was in the Author of Ecclesiastics, then how can they "Believe" or "repent" or "turn to God"?

Clearly, if a man doesn't do these things, in the time a longsuffering, Patient and Merciful God gives them, after they sinned, they shall surely die.

As this same God teaches you, if you would just believe Him.

Ez. 18: 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21 "But if" the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

In your religion, isn't this good news? And who make this possible?



My God isn't the God of the Dead, but the God of the Living. Your god creates dead people. I can say for certain that the Holy Scriptures do not represent your god.



Well I, and David, and Isaiah disagree with your religious philosophy. And in all due respect, the Spirit of Christ that inspired these Prophets teach me about death, this Christ died, but you have never died. So it seems to me that I would be better off Trusting the God that Inspired the bible, than to trust you or this world's religions you have adopted, given you don't believe the graves of this world are filled with dead people that don't even know they are dead.



"Living dead", God creates "dead people"! Are you actually listening to your own preaching here? If a person that is spiritually dead, can never "know anything" about God, then you, who you preach to the world was born dead, have no hope?




This is true.



Please understand that you have already miss-represented my beliefs and posts on a public forum. So it would be foolish to just ignore Scriptures, and take your word for it. Perhaps if you were to show me where my posts contradict my theology, this would be more helpful.




John 8: 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Luke 9: 59 And he said unto another, "Follow me". But he said, Lord, "suffer me first" to go and bury my father.

60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but "let me first" go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

So let these men who refuse to repent and turn to God, who will die in their sins, bury others who also refuse to repent, who will die in their sins.

But if these unrepentant men would humble themselves, while they are still alive, and "yield themselves" to God in repentance, and "Follow the Jesus" of the Bible, they will still die, but Jesus Promises to raise them from the dead, and give them the gift of eternal life.

Abraham was given the same instruction.

Gen. 12: 1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of "thy country", and from "thy kindred", and from "thy father's house", unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. 4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

You might notice that Abraham didn't say, "Wait God", I will follow you, but let me first go back and honor my earthly father".

Instead of using a verse here and there to justify an adopted religion, perhaps you might consider turning away from the religion of your fathers, and Follow Jesus' instruction. "Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness". And let this world's religious promoters bury this world's religious promoters.


Clearly, even my 12 year old grandson can see that these men were destined to death, and not already dead. Just as Jesus teaches, "You shall die in your sins". In your religion, Jesus was talking about men who refused to eat His Flesh, Yes? Men who have "No life" in them? And what of Jesus' Words to the rich man?

Matt. 19: 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but "if thou wilt enter into life", keep the commandments.

And concerning Lazarus;

John 11: 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Did the dead bury the dead here?

The problem and difference here between us is that you are here to justify your religion, and you cherry pick Scriptures for that purpose, as is clearly evident. While I, a no body, am seeking to know God, as Jesus wanted, that I might grow in the knowledge of God. To do this, it is imperative to consider "ALL" that is written.


I posted Solomons understanding of the death that befalls all men. I posted David's understanding and Isaiah's understanding. But they can't be used to support, defend or further your preaching that God created "dead" people. So you don't believe them.

According to God and Jesus, I can deliver myself from a Spiritual Death, by "Turning to God".

Ez. 18: 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Paul taught the same thing;

Acts 26: 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

But I only have this life in which to "Yield myself" to God. Because as it is written, "The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." And "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

It seems prudent to study so as to know the truth about this death, VS. being "dead in trespasses and sins".



It seems you are pitting one verse of God against another to prove your "God creates dead people" philosophy. I'm hoping you might reconsider, but the choice is yours.

I asked you to explain why you don't believe what God said about death, in the verses I referenced. But you responded by listing a bunch of unrelated verses in an effort, to use them to destroy the verses I referenced.

As I have previously mentioned, you can't use Gods Word to destroy Gods Word, when it exposes your denominations teachings. You have never addressed or refuted a single verse I mentioned, all you have done to defend your denomination, is ignore the verses I referenced and jump to other unrelated verses, then misapply them to where they contradict what Gods Word says in the verses I referenced.

You have used many of the same verses as we already considered and found that you interpretation contradicts what God said about the matter. You have not defended your denominations interpretation, when it contradicts Gods Word.

I would be glad, if you could set me straight by showing me scriptures to support your views. But all you have offered up so far, is unbiblical doctrines which are not supported by any scripture at all.
You make many assumptions and presumptions, but the bible doesn't support a single one of them.

You keep describing "death" as if there was only one kind mentioned in the Bible, but I have shown you that there are several different kinds of death. But you reject what Gods Word has to say about it and instead pluck verses out of their intended context and apply your denominational narrative to them and attempt to pass them of as Biblically correct.

It's not true to say that everyone experiences the death of the body, because we see billions are living on the earth when Jesus comes back. His elect will be transformed into His likeness without experiencing bodily death. So there again you have made a false statement.

Your opinion about those who experienced the death of their body, not being able to think is also false. We find those who died the bodily death talking to each other and Abraham, you have Lazarus and the rich man and Abraham. The rich man was in hell begging for a drop of water to cool his tongue, but your denomination told you the dead can't talk but Jesus said they do, so again you place your trust in your priest but I place mine in the Lord Jesus.

I can list many more verses, but if you don't believe what Gods Word says, then it's a waste of time.

God said, "in the day you eat of it, you shall surely die". But you say no God, what you meant to say is "in the day you eat of it, you will die 900 years after that day". Can you see how your interpretation is makes no sense at all.

So when you read, "the dead know nothing", that means those who are still dead in their sin know nothing about spiritual things or what it means to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The "natural man" those who are not born again, are carnal creatures, they are spiritually blind, they are as brute beasts.
They can't choose to believe because spiritual things are foolishness to them, and as dead people they can do precisely nothing to make themselves alive.

Ephesians 2:1 "And you were dead in your trespasses and sins."
This verse confirms that the natural spiritual state of humanity is one of death from birth, and they remain dead unless God regenerates them.

Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned."
This verse also confirms that sin and spiritual death are inherited from Adam, affecting all humanity.


Romans 8:8 "Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God."
This verse shows that humanity's sinful nature, in its natural state, prevents it from having the spiritual capacity to please God.


Psalm 51:5 "For behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."
This psalm is a declaration of the inherent sinfulness that is present from the very beginning of human life.


Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." This verse emphasizes the universality of sin, with the implication of spiritual death for everyone.