German Peace Movement

[Godcrazy]

As a fellow swede I just want to object a little. Sweden not having an army to talk about is only true since the fall of the Soviet Union. It still have one of the higher willingness to defend the country with weapon in hand in Europe. Now when Russia is expansionistic again I'm pretty sure there will be more conscripts trained and more money spent on defense again. I wish the world would be different but we don't choose our circumstances.

I think one problem is not enough people not enough trained. it will end up with foreign EU armies.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

I think one problem is not enough people not enough trained. it will end up with foreign EU armies.

Perhaps, I don't have a crystal ball. If push comes to shove we will see.

 

[Nithavela]

I don`t know why Finland is different.

Having Russia as a direct neighbour is a great motivator to get your armed forces ready.

 

[7thKeeper]

I don`t know why Finland is different.

We didn't forget the lessons of WW2. Added to the fact that during the Cold War, we had to balance a line between the two sides and maintain our own credible defense without any official friends in case of conflict and when the USSR fell, we didn't change. The name and government might have changed in our neighbour to the east, but the people there in power were still the same essentially. So we never got rid of compulsory service and kept it in our Constitution.

 

[Godcrazy]

Having Russia as a direct neighbour is a great motivator to get your armed forces ready.

It`ll end up we all rely on Finland then

 

[Godcrazy]

We didn't forget the lessons of WW2. Added to the fact that during the Cold War, we had to balance a line between the two sides and maintain our own credible defense without any official friends in case of conflict and when the USSR fell, we didn't change. The name and government might have changed in our neighbour to the east, but the people there in power were still the same essentially. So we never got rid of compulsory service and kept it in our Constitution.

I guess the finnish were smarter that way. Still population is an issue. I wonder if the foreigners sign up..

 

[Godcrazy]

Perhaps, I don't have a crystal ball. If push comes to shove we will see.

well if Sweden does not have enough people armour etc no choice

 

[Stopped_lurking]

well if Sweden does not have enough people armour etc no choice

Are we at war right now? We'll get there, otherwise we will have to fall back to the free war doctrine. There's no reason give up beforehand. Yes, in hindsight I wish that we would have done like the Finnish defense forces (which we have very good collaborations with as with the norwegians and the danes). If the best time to do right was 10 years ago, the second best time to do right is now. Why the gloomy outlook?

 

[timewerx]

There are some real nutcases in this country. Some do not believe we should have an army at all. Is this naivety, well-meaning stupidity, or just fear, like in the eighties about war? Why are so many people so vulnerable to these leftists who see no threat in Putin but regard the German Bundeswehr and military industrialists as the enemy instead

Anti-war: Germany's new peace movement gains momentum – DW – 09/27/2025

In Germany, resistance against the arms race and militarization is growing. Many alliances are organizing demonstrations. What unites them, what divides them?

www.dw.com

Nutcases or Germany is under attack already.

If someone intends to attack Germany or the rest of Europe, these anti-military protests/movements would be very advantageous to potential enemies like Russia. Think Vietnam War.

I'm speculating that Russia could have planted seeds of these anti-war movement themselves.

And Germany has been "under attack" since the end of WW2. The war never really ended. It simply entered another dimension. A different battlefield that is well hidden from plain sight. A battle to crush morale and the soul.

 

[7thKeeper]

I guess the finnish were smarter that way. Still population is an issue. I wonder if the foreigners sign up..

How is it an issue? Finland's active force during war is 280 000 (going to grow a bit to above 290 000 iirc) with a total reserve of about 900 000. You just need to have conscription like Finland or South Korea.

It`ll end up we all rely on Finland then

How'd the old joke go? Sweden will fight to the last Finn.

 

[Learning always]

yeah tell that to a country of only 10 miljon

10 million?
The tiny mini country Singapore got only 5 million, yet it has built a strong armed force, and the strongest air force in SE Asia.

Despite its size, Singapore consistently allocates around 3–4% of GDP to defence—higher than many larger nations.
Singapore currently has the largest defence budget in Southeast Asia, despite being the smallest country in the region by land area.

Singapore’s defence strategy is one of the most comprehensive in the world.
It got a comprehensive defence strategy, which every Western nation should have.

Singapore’s Total Defence framework includes:

• Military Defence
• Civil Defence
• ECONOMIC Defence – the West is weak in this
• SOCIAL Defence – the West is very weak in this
• PSYCHOLOGICAL Defence – the West is very weak in this
• Digital Defence

 

[mindlight]

Nutcases or Germany is under attack already.

If someone intends to attack Germany or the rest of Europe, these anti-military protests/movements would be very advantageous to potential enemies like Russia. Think Vietnam War.

I'm speculating that Russia could have planted seeds of these anti-war movement themselves.

And Germany has been "under attack" since the end of WW2. The war never really ended. It simply entered another dimension. A different battlefield that is well hidden from plain sight. A battle to crush morale and the soul.

Yes, agreed, leftists and crime syndicates are responsible for most of the cyber attacks on critical infrastructure, but could increasingly be used as proxies or fifth columnists by Russia. Russia is currently probing NATO systems and looking for vulnerabilities and timing response speeds. We need to be better prepared for these kinds of threats.

 

[mindlight]

10 million?
The tiny mini country Singapore got only 5 million, yet it has built a strong armed force, and the strongest air force in SE Asia.

Despite its size, Singapore consistently allocates around 3–4% of GDP to defence—higher than many larger nations.
Singapore currently has the largest defence budget in Southeast Asia, despite being the smallest country in the region by land area.

Singapore’s defence strategy is one of the most comprehensive in the world.
It got a comprehensive defence strategy, which every Western nation should have.

Singapore’s Total Defence framework includes:

• Military Defence
• Civil Defence
• ECONOMIC Defence – the West is weak in this
• SOCIAL Defence – the West is very weak in this
• PSYCHOLOGICAL Defence – the West is very weak in this
• Digital Defence

I guess the problem comes when you try to define what economic, social, and psychological principles are worth defending and what are merely products of a corrupt, deceitful, and slightly dictatorial elite. Ultimately, we are defending freedom, freedom to trade and build businesses, freedom to speak and worship, and to make mistakes within our own spaces and freedom from the demonic, gangsters pushing addiction, evil agendas, authoritarian health officials with woke agendas, etc.

 

[FireDragon76]

That's an old excuse well past it's due date. Germany is a different country now but still needs to be able to guard it's borders, deter threats and defend those weaker than itself.

Is it really a different country? Much of the old German legal code actually survived the end of WWII, and ethnic nationalism still exists in groups like AfD. After WWII, the old German Reich wasn't reconstructed so much as quietly rehabilitated, with their own "Lost Cause" myth in the service of anti-Communism in the Cold War.

 

[mindlight]

yeah tell that to a country of only 10 miljon

Britain won global conflicts like the Seven-Year War and the Napoleonic Wars with that many people. The Vikings conquered or pillaged right, left, and center with far less. Yet Denmark was conquered in a few hours by Germany in WW2. The Swedes have perhaps wisely stayed out of conflicts since their mainly fruitless wars against the Russians. Finland also lost against the USSR in WW2, but made both wars against them so costly that they could not impose the terms they wanted. It is all about mentality in the end.

 

[mindlight]

Is it really a different country? Much of the old German legal code actually survived the end of WWII, and ethnic nationalism still exists in groups like AfD. After WWII, the old German Reich wasn't reconstructed so much as quietly rehabilitated, with their own "Lost Cause" myth in the service of anti-Communism in the Cold War.

The AFD is more pro-Israel than antisemitic and wants to avoid wars by caving into Russian demands, so a different beast from the Nazi party. The Basic Law provides more protection than in most other Western countries. For example, in the UK, psychiatrists can get you hospitalised, while in Germany, it has to be proven to a Judge that a person is a threat to themselves or others. In the UK, people are imprisoned for comments they made on social media, while in Germany, free speech is protected. The German experience of Stasi and Gestapo has left them distrustful of those who would abuse power. If anything, this makes it harder for Germany to act as the strong man of Europe, protecting Europe's borders and weaker nations against the barbarians at the gate. Dredging up the Nazi stereotypes is exactly the opposite of the right approach right now with Germans. The Nazis are the excuse they use to do nothing and when good men do nothing, evil prospers...

 

[FireDragon76]

The AFD is more pro-Israel than antisemitic and wants to avoid wars by caving into Russian demands, so a different beast from the Nazi party.

Is that really all that different? Many Nazis also favored the deportation of Jews to Palestine. Just having a nationalist affinity with Israel is hardly a sign of goodwill in the modern world.

The Basic Law provides more protection than in most other Western countries. For example, in the UK, psychiatrists can get you hospitalised, while in Germany, it has to be proven to a Judge that a person is a threat to themselves or others. In the UK, people are imprisoned for comments they made on social media, while in Germany, free speech is protected. The German experience of Stasi and Gestapo has left them distrustful of those who would abuse power. If anything, this makes it harder for Germany to act as the strong man of Europe, protecting Europe's borders and weaker nations against the barbarians at the gate. Dredging up the Nazi stereotypes is exactly the opposite of the right approach right now with Germans. The Nazis are the excuse they use to do nothing and when good men do nothing, evil prospers...

Germany isn't the obvious choice geographically to be a force against Putinism. Poland or the Baltic states are the more immediate neighbors of Russia.

 

[timewerx]

The AFD is more pro-Israel than antisemitic and wants to avoid wars by caving into Russian demands, so a different beast from the Nazi party. The Basic Law provides more protection than in most other Western countries. For example, in the UK, psychiatrists can get you hospitalised, while in Germany, it has to be proven to a Judge that a person is a threat to themselves or others. In the UK, people are imprisoned for comments they made on social media, while in Germany, free speech is protected. The German experience of Stasi and Gestapo has left them distrustful of those who would abuse power. If anything, this makes it harder for Germany to act as the strong man of Europe, protecting Europe's borders and weaker nations against the barbarians at the gate. Dredging up the Nazi stereotypes is exactly the opposite of the right approach right now with Germans. The Nazis are the excuse they use to do nothing and when good men do nothing, evil prospers...

I think modern Germany went too far with "Political Correctness".

But "Political Correctness" makes you lose and your enemies (who are not politically correct) win.