John Piper warns against 'Christian' mysticism, seeking 'out-of-body connection' with supernatural powers

[Michie]

Notable theologian and author John Piper has warned Christians not to pursue mysticism or believe that one can connect with God in a supernatural realm to gain hidden knowledge.

In a recent episode of the “Ask Pastor John" podcast, the Desiring God website founder responded to a letter from a listener named Dianne who asked about the Bible teacher's views on mysticism.

“I don’t know if this question has come up before, but what are your thoughts on Christian mysticism and Christian mystics and their interaction with God?” she wrote.

“Did they experience something in their walk with God that we have generally lost today? Is mysticism something that we should pursue to have a closer walk with God?”

Continued below.

John Piper warns against 'Christian' mysticism, seeking 'out-of-body connection' with supernatural powers

Notable theologian and author John Piper has warned Christians not to pursue mysticism or believe that one can connect with God in a supernatural realm to gain hidden knowledge

www.christianpost.com

 

[FireDragon76]

Yes, because if you had a genuine mystical encounter with God, it might lead you to reject the kind of flat, doctrinaire religion that John Piper preaches with so much certainty.

The blind leading the blind.

 

[Delvianna]

Yes, because if you had a genuine mystical encounter with God, it might lead you to reject the kind of flat, doctrinaire religion that John Piper preaches with so much certainty.

The blind leading the blind.

I agree with you, but that genuinely made me laugh, sorry lol

 

[RileyG]

Yes, because if you had a genuine mystical encounter with God, it might lead you to reject the kind of flat, doctrinaire religion that John Piper preaches with so much certainty.

The blind leading the blind.

I'm not very familiar with him.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I think there is a certain amount of sense in what he said. If someone has previously dabbled in the occult or perhaps come from another faith where such experiences are sought, then I think they need to take a step back from seeking extraordinary experiences.

But if "spiritual experiences" just happen to come, then fine but even then we need to be wary and seek the advice of other experienced Christians.

I'm well aware there is a spiritual world out there which exists cheek by jowl with this one. As St. Paul said there is a vast cloud of witnesses as to how we live our Christian lives. That could only be the case if the spiritual world exists and is very much aware of what we're doing.

But for us it largely remains hidden and for good reason. They can see us but we can't see them.

Nevertheless that mystical world sometimes intrudes and God occasionally allows a direct experience of His presence or the reality of the spiritual world in some form, although it is always muted compared to His real power. As a (spiritual) psychiatrist remarked to me one day, spiritual experiences are usually vague. I find there are times when I think I'm being told something but I'm not 100% sure.

"No man can see my face and live" is a warning of what to expect when He does reveal Himself in full - there won't be a single person left alive in the body.

 

[Tuur]

Yes, because if you had a genuine mystical encounter with God, it might lead you to reject the kind of flat, doctrinaire religion that John Piper preaches with so much certainty.

The blind leading the blind.

That assumes someone automatically knows if a mystical experience is of God or not. Such is not always the case. Besides which, if we seek the mystical, are we seeking God or the experience?

 

[Bob Crowley]

That assumes someone automatically knows if a mystical experience is of God or not. Such is not always the case. Besides which, if we seek the mystical, are we seeking God or the experience?

Way back when I was still Presbyterian I asked my pastor how do I know up-front if a particular spiritual experience is from God or not.

He thought for a moment and then replied "You don't (know)".

Sometimes it takes time for it to become clear. Even he could be briefly deceived.

We were talking one day and he said that I would do this immoral act, and that immoral act, and ...

But then he stopped, and said "Hang on a minute! I think the devil is telling me all this!"

For a few minutes even the old pastor was deceived, but it didn't take him long to work it out.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Notable theologian and author John Piper has warned Christians not to pursue mysticism or believe that one can connect with God in a supernatural realm to gain hidden knowledge.

In a recent episode of the “Ask Pastor John" podcast, the Desiring God website founder responded to a letter from a listener named Dianne who asked about the Bible teacher's views on mysticism.

“I don’t know if this question has come up before, but what are your thoughts on Christian mysticism and Christian mystics and their interaction with God?” she wrote.

“Did they experience something in their walk with God that we have generally lost today? Is mysticism something that we should pursue to have a closer walk with God?”

Continued below.

John Piper warns against 'Christian' mysticism, seeking 'out-of-body connection' with supernatural powers

Notable theologian and author John Piper has warned Christians not to pursue mysticism or believe that one can connect with God in a supernatural realm to gain hidden knowledge

www.christianpost.com

I remember in college the evangelicals speaking of mysticism as starting in a mist and ending in schism. It took me long time to appreciate that there could be healthy Christian mysticism. I think Piper is just one more of those who would poison the well and condemn all mysticism. Probably out of a mistaken loyalty to Sola Scriptura,

I don't think mysticism should be 'pursued' but it should be confirmed and then accepted as helpful. I think it is pompous to just reject it outright.

 

[Michie]

I remember in college the evangelicals speaking of mysticism as starting in a mist and ending in schism. It took me long time to appreciate that there could be healthy Christian mysticism. I think Piper is just one more of those who would poison the well and condemn all mysticism. Probably out of a mistaken loyalty to Sola Scriptura,

I don't think mysticism should be 'pursued' but it should be confirmed and then accepted as helpful. I think it is pompous to just reject it outright.

As long as it does not go against Christian teaching, I just look at it as private revelation. But we must remember many Christians equate mysticism as dabbling in the occult, new age, whatever. They have little knowledge of those we consider mystics within the RCC and what that means in Christian tradition.

 

[Tuur]

As long as it does not go against Christian teaching, I just look at it as private revelation. But we must remember many Christians equate mysticism as dabbling in the occult, new age, whatever. They have little knowledge of those we consider mystics within the RCC and what that means in Christian tradition.

FWIW, protestants who go in for that sort of thing also have little knowledge of what the RCC considers mystics. They are playing with something that can have terrible spiritual consequences. It is so easy to delude ourselves with our own thoughts; how much more with a "mystical" experience?

 

[chevyontheriver]

FWIW, protestants who go in for that sort of thing also have little knowledge of what the RCC considers mystics. They are playing with something that can have terrible spiritual consequences. It is so easy to delude ourselves with our own thoughts; how much more with a "mystical" experience?

We have had mystics going back to John the apostle. And yet you are right that we can delude ourselves easily. Christianity should not be a solo affair. It needs every bit of Scripture and Tradition and Apostolic discipleship we have to keep us all on track. Banning Catholic mystics does not add to that. Staying away from the occult and satanic is a different thing and those should always be avoided like the plague.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'm not much into Calvin Klein theology, but staying in the body and communing with the indwelling Holy Spirit is the Christian experience.

 

[bèlla]

I find it best to keep somethings to oneself for the sake of peace.

~bella

 

[FireDragon76]

I'm not very familiar with him.

He's a calvinistic Baptist preacher, part of the Neo-Calvinist revival among some Baptists.

He doesn't even seem to have a good understanding of Christian mysticism in the first place.

 

[Yarddog]

Notable theologian and author John Piper has warned Christians not to pursue mysticism or believe that one can connect with God in a supernatural realm to gain hidden knowledge.

In a recent episode of the “Ask Pastor John" podcast, the Desiring God website founder responded to a letter from a listener named Dianne who asked about the Bible teacher's views on mysticism.

“I don’t know if this question has come up before, but what are your thoughts on Christian mysticism and Christian mystics and their interaction with God?” she wrote.

“Did they experience something in their walk with God that we have generally lost today? Is mysticism something that we should pursue to have a closer walk with God?”

Continued below.

John Piper warns against 'Christian' mysticism, seeking 'out-of-body connection' with supernatural powers

Notable theologian and author John Piper has warned Christians not to pursue mysticism or believe that one can connect with God in a supernatural realm to gain hidden knowledge

www.christianpost.com

I have had many personal experiences with God, such as healing, visions, revelation, hearing God speak, etc... but I don't understand what mysticism is.

 

[Michie]

It’s kind of hard to define. You can read this: Mysticism

Here is some Catholic mystics that can give you a general idea of what the term can mean in our tradition:

Famous Catholic Mystics

List of Famous Catholic Mystics: Christian mysticism refers to the development of mystical practices and theory within Christianity. It has often been connected to mystical theology, especially in …

themysticsaints.wordpress.com

 

[RileyG]

He's a calvinistic Baptist preacher, part of the Neo-Calvinist revival among some Baptists.

He doesn't even seem to have a good understanding of Christian mysticism in the first place.

Thank you. I don’t follow that theology, and am not surprised he doesn’t agree with mysticism.

 

[fhansen]

I find it best to keep somethings to oneself for the sake of peace.

~bella

That can be the best advice! And the church has offered it in the past. Or, better yet, perhaps, I guess there’s a time and place to cast one’s pearls and a time and place to keep them hidden.

 

[RDKirk]

I remember in college the evangelicals speaking of mysticism as starting in a mist and ending in schism. It took me long time to appreciate that there could be healthy Christian mysticism. I think Piper is just one more of those who would poison the well and condemn all mysticism. Probably out of a mistaken loyalty to Sola Scriptura,

Did you read the article? That's not what Piper said.

Defining mysticism as a “kind of ecstatic or out-of-body connection with supernatural powers in the hopes of gaining some hidden knowledge or experience of ultimate reality that would give power to successful life change,” Piper warned against such practices.

“No, we shouldn’t pursue it. Don’t seek transformation or power through ecstatic or out-of-body connections with supernatural powers. Don’t go that route,” he said.

Piper explained that Paul “thought it was foolish to boast about mystical experiences as though it were the true sign of an apostle or the key to godliness or Christlikeness.”

“The real power of the Christian life — the peculiarly Christ-given power, Christian power, the real power of an apostle — lies not in mystical experiences, but in trusting Christ to show his power in and through our weaknesses,” Piper continued.

Piper added that while “we should not reject extraordinary experiences if they come,” Christians should not “go after them....We should not seek them as an ordinary way of experiencing the power of Christ,” he concluded. “Rather, we should seek to know Christ so deeply that He Himself becomes the satisfaction of our souls, and the gladness of our hearts, and the contentment of our minds as we walk the Christlike path of sacrificial love.”

IMO, a "mystical experience," however defined, should not result in some kind of "hidden knowledge," but should point back always to what we know of the Lord already in scripture and in the long-standing practices of the Church,.

 

[FireDragon76]

Did you read the article? That's not what Piper said.



IMO, a "mystical experience," however defined, should not result in some kind of "hidden knowledge," but should point back always to what we know of the Lord already in scripture and in the long-standing practices of the Church,.

Scriptures, as they typically are read in western culture, are like reading about somebody, but a mystical experience are of a different kind: they typically do involve the perception of knowledge, just by their nature there is a noetic quality: often the experiences are "hyper-real" or "psychdelic". And usually difficult to describe or "ineffable". Often they are communicated in symbols or paradoxes and result in disorientation or reorientation in sense of self and personal narrative.